1st time out with CPC800 and a little disappointed.

[Mr Noble]

I sold my cheapo beginner scope and bought a lovely CPC800 a month or so ago.

I've had it out manually looking at Jupiter and the Moon a few times, but last night I set it up properly for the first time and a good 2 hour session - until I couldn't feel my fingers anymore!

My last scope was useless at looking at anything other than the moon really. Even Jupiter was a nightmare as it wobbled so much you couldn't make anything out.

This scope was amazing by comparrison, the GPS logged on in 30 seconds, the auto star set up was easy and the "Tour" mode was pin point accurate, but I was left rather upset by what I saw.

Andromeda was the 1st thing I asked it to show me, and having seen the Hubble images, my hopes were high. What I saw was really just a faint blur, I couldn't really even tell if it was in focus, with a 20mm ep. With a 12mm ep, it was hopeless.

The viewing went on, not really being able to make anything out properly.

My question I guess is, how much difference will there be from last night in my back garden in central Cambridge and the neighbours floodlight lighting up my whole garden, and the 2/4 full moon beaming down, compared to a pitch black night out in the middle of nowhere?

Is this what they call "seeing"? Maybe last night for me was a 1!! What conditions do I need to be impressed and what can I realistically expect to see?

Many thanks for any words of advice. I'll keep with it!

Greg

[russ]

The difference on a good night, without all those problems, will be huge. The little faint fuzzies really do depend on a good dark sky.

Also, for M31, a 20mm Plossl in an 8" SCT just isn't the right eyepiece to do it justice. M31 covers a large area the sky, so you are looking for a low power eyepiece (30mm 80deg) to achieve the widest possible field. M31 is one of those objects that responds better to low power in a cheap widefield telescope, such as a Skywatcher 80mm f5 rather than an 8" SCT. Some of my best views of M31 have been through a pair of 15x70's binos.

Russ

[pvaz]

3 problems here:

1) The moon light ruins most DSOs.

2) You used too much power for Andromeda.

3) If you are expecting hubble pictures I can tell you'll be disappointed observing any DSO. (except clusters witch look pretty much like the pictures)

Andromeda, when observed without moon light and much light pollution, looks like an oval shaped cloud. The core is bright and somewhat round and it fades out towards the edge. It's like 4 times the area of the full moon so you need low power to see the edge fade out to a pitch black sky. If you "zoom" in the core, you won't see the dark sky around it, and the lack of contrast will make it much worst.

[iamjulian]

Moving to a darker site and switching off your neighbour's light will make some difference, but right now switching off the moon will make the most difference. Even only half full, first quarter or whatever you want to call it, it will wash out a lot of deep sky objects. Stick to double stars and planets while the moon is up.

[Mr Noble]

Thanks guys. I didn't realise just how much difference the background lights and moon make!

No wonder I've never seen anything decent with my £60 scope!

Is M31 really that big Pvas? 4 times the width of a full moon? Wouldn't it be visable with the naked eye?

Many thanks for your help guys.

Greg

[russ]

It is visible to the naked eye but only from darkish skies. If you have any binos, take a look at M31 in those and you'll appreciate just how big it is.

Russ

[Mr Noble]

No wonder I couldnt see anything with my 20mm ep in!

I had this image in my mind and was thinking it'd be about as big as Jupiter is to the naked eye!

So you're saying that a full moon overlayed in this image would be about half the size of the whole galaxy?

M31

Pic robbed off the web.

[NickH]

Welcome to real observational astronomy. Unless you stick an eyepiece on a rather large scope, faint grey fuzzies is much of what you will see with galaxies and nebula. Globs are great, and the Moon is a fantastic sight.

Go as wide as you can with the EP...CPC is F10, so maybe get a 0.63 focal reducer as well...

[russ]

Deepsky visual is an aquired taste

A good narrowband filter can help with the nebula but only a dark sky can help with the galaxies.

Russ

[Bigwings]

Keep tryin...

I was out at 3 am when the moon was down and the overhead M81 7M82 were good but the seeing deteriorated rapidly as you went towards the horizon. Couldnt even find Andromeda Galaxy.

Mind Orion Neb was as usual good.

Interesting comment about the focal reducer. I am tempted in that direction but as of now just go to a Skwatcher 40mm EP for deepspace O

[pvaz]

No wonder I couldnt see anything with my 20mm ep in!

I had this image in my mind and was thinking it'd be about as big as Jupiter is to the naked eye!

So you're saying that a full moon overlayed in this image would be about half the size of the whole galaxy?

M31

Pic robbed off the web.

I'm fortunate to have a really dark sky. At new moon I see it naked eye.

On my scope, at 37,5x with a 70º widefield EP it fills the FOV. It's very close to that picture cropped around the galaxy. The more I let my eyes adapt to the dark the widest it gets.

But I can not see the arms. I only sow the biggest dust lane once and had to use the trick of averted vision and tapping the scope at the same time, on an excellent night.

EDIT: According to the apparent dimension on wikipedia, andromeda is 190′ × 60′ while the full moon is 34'x34' when closest to the Earth. The problem is Andromeda is very faint and gets fainter and fainter towards the edges. You need a dark sky and good night vision to see it all.

[John]

My best view of M31 came with a 4" scope and an ultra-wide field eyepiece - and a very dark night !. The scope eyepiece combination gave me a 4 degree true field so I could get most of M31, M32 and NGC110 in the same view. Lovely

John

[Mick.G.]

I also bought a cpc800 a couple of months ago (not been out with it yet).

But I did have the forsight to get myself a 0.63 reducer as well.

I'm plesed to know you managed to set it up fist time, I just hope I have the same luck.

Mick.G.

[Mr Noble]

Thanks guys.

I'll look into a reducer.

I think the cheapy Revelation EP kit I bought is ok, but the widest ep is the 32mm. It seems very sharp.

I was thinking that DSO's would need 3 or 5mm ep's so I'm quite pleased to hear that they actually need 40mm instead!!

I'm tempted to buy a 5mm TMB for looking at planets, but I assume that's all it'll be good for?

I'm starting to realise just how much I have to learn!

Mick.G. I think you'll be mighty impressed with the cpc800. Especially if its your 1st proper scope. I found the 3 star alignment a doddle (although I knocked the power lead after aligning the first two stars on attempt one and had to start all over again! Doh!!)

I was amazed at just how accurate the autoguide was; all the different features of the handset make it a joy to use, even giving you a description of each object as you look at it!

Regards,

Greg

[John]

I'm tempted to buy a 5mm TMB for looking at planets, but I assume that's all it'll be good for?

It's a nice eyepiece Greg but it gives 400x in your scope which will be too much power on all but the best of nights. When I had an 8" SCT I found a 7mm eyepiece (285x) was the practical max on most nights - mine was a Tele Vue plossl and I had my best ever views of Saturn with that combination

John

[brianb]

I'm tempted to buy a 5mm TMB for looking at planets

With an f/10 SCT? You don't need anything shorter than 9mm, that will only be usable on the nights with the steadiest seeing (less than 1 in 10). 12.5mm is about right for viewing planets in average conditions.

[ombos]

Like all have said, welcome to the real world me duck, we've all been there, BUT again like everyone as said wait until the seeing is good, it makes more differance than anything else. if you can try out WO UWAN 16 and 7 mm eps, I might as well sell the rest!

[Daveb3650]

If the neighbours light is too much of a problem,,,,, get yourself a cheap air rifle.....take aim..... [snip].....

get the message ????

[Helen]

If the neighbours light is too much of a problem,,,,, get yourself a cheap air rifle.....take aim..... [snip].....

get the message ????

He's joking of course!!!

But the CPC 800 will give you great views with the right conditions, and the right combination of eyepiece and target. I've got the equivalent (older) model of your scope and have had a great time with it. Its too easy to think that higher magnification is best, but often the lower power, smaller but sharper views are in fact better. I too would recommend a 16mm UWAN or Nirvana eyepiece as being a really good match for the scope.

Just keep at it, the more you learn, the more you look, the more you'll see.

Helen

[Mr Noble]

I see.

So you're saying that I really only need 3 EP's around about 8mm, 16mm and 30mm?

Sounds good to me, but I'm getting very confused about which 3 to get. Are the UWAN's good for DSO and solar system stuff?

I have been told to go for the Hyperon Baader ones, the WO Uwan's the Meade 5000 UW ones and the Naglers!

Would you recommend that the 30+mm one be from a different make than the 8mm and 17mm ones?

Many thanks!

G

[Daveb3650]

Yes....I was joking about the air rifle ....... they are dangerous and nasty,,,,, no one should play with guns.......

However....a good catapult......hmmm now your talking......

[brantuk]

Just a few simple things I found with my cpc-800 that helped - getting a dew shield and a light pollution filter. Long cooling period (an hour or so). Dew heaters on the corrector end and at the lens makes a big difference. The darker the sky is obviously the better. And on a polar alligned equatorial wedge it's superb.