Orion Optics SPX 300 f/4

[Red Wulff]

Hi all,

I've been out of astronomy for thirty years since my teens but now would like to start again, so I've just joined the forum. I live in rural Cheshire and therefore have access to some resonably dark skies in my garden. I'd like to observe and photograph deep sky objects in the first instance, and I have a Canon 350D digital SLR which I'll use to start with.

I've been considering an Orion Optics SPX 300 f/4 with the upgrade to 1/10PV wavefront optics and the Crayford focuser with electronic drive, mounted on an EQ6 Pro GOTO mount. This comes in at about £2,500.

Does anyone have any experience of one of these? I have £2,500-£3,000 maximum to spend, are there any other suggestions?

I look forward to hearing your opinions,

RW

[mdstuart]

WOW you have a big budget. AS I understand it for viaul you want a big bod say 16 inch but for photography you want a smart apo refractor but most of all an EQ6 mount or better as the mount is vital for imaging. You will get loads of advice here on this forum...I am just an amateur!

Mark

[FLO]

Given your budget and your wish to do both visual and imaging I would be looking at a two-scope setup, one for imaging and another for deep-sky. No telescope is good at everything so blowing the lot on one scope and mount will inevitably result in a compromise.

HTH

[Red Wulff]

Hi Steve

Thanks for the reply. It never occured to me to buy two scopes, I just thought I would be best to buy as big an aperture as I could afford and the best optics I could lay my hands on.

What two scopes would you suggest? I have never tries astro-photography so I don't know whether I'm going to get on with it. I suppose if I had two scopes I could get a dob for a deep sky scope and then buy something to do photography?

Thanks

RW

[FLO]

... I suppose if I had two scopes I could get a dob for a deep sky scope and then buy something to do photography?

That is what I had in mind, a 12-inch Dobsonian and a short-tube APO refractor on a suitable GEQ mount. Start with that and see how it goes.

As for specific models, there is a lot to choose from so best to hear what the others have to say before deciding.

HTH

[alfingido]

The 300PX will be great, as long as you dont want to set it up and put it away everynight, its going to be heavy and hard work.

I had the same idea as you without actually seeing a 300mm newt. I was advised against it, on this forum and at a couple of retailers, and got a 12 "dob and 80mm apo refractor on a goto mount for astrophotography.

That way, you get the best of both worlds, and stay within budget.

Remember, the best scope is the one you use the most. Heaving a large OTA and mount outside and setting up everynight can be a little wearing!

Alan

[arad85]

Also at F/4 that is going to be seriously demanding on eyepieces (i.e. ££££). I'm with everyone else - 12" dob for observing and 80mm APO 'scope for photos. You might also want a long focal length Maksutov or Schmitt-Casegrain if you want to do imaging of planets In fact, if you look at my sig, you'll see I have exactly that

EQ6 pro all the way though for the mount...

[Red Wulff]

I'm still a bit confused, if I buy a 12" dob for visual work and an 80mm refractor for photography then what do I use an EQ6 mount for? Surely I just buy an EQ5 or equivalent for the refractor and this saves me £600 or so (to spend on eyepieces etc ). I know I won't have the GOTO mount but maybe I should learn my way around the sky like I did when I was a kid, before GOTO mounts (and CCDs and computers!).

What does everyone think?

RW

[Ben Ritchie]

For imaging you want the best mount you can afford, and the EQ6 fills a fairly unique price/performance point (buy the Synscan or Syntrek versions and EQMOD it). It's really the best of the cheap - at least in relative terms! - mounts, and you're looking at several thousands to buy something better. The HEQ5 is similar, but the EQ6 is a good step up for not much more money. In any case you'll need to budget for an autoguider.

The other advantage of the EQ6 is that as your 'scopes change (and they almost certainly will) you don't need to change mount too, it'll quite happily cope with a 5" refractor if you ever want to upgrade. Or 11" SCT. Or 10" Newtonian. Or 7" Mak-Newt, etc. etc., while the cheaper mounts are more limited in what they can cope with.

[Merlin66]

An ED80 on a EQ5pro ( with GOTO) is a good combination. You can add a dual bar later for guiding with say an ST80 and/or fit the Canon on it with a telelens for wide field images.

The 12" Dobbie at around f5 is also a good compromise ( easier on the eyepieces!!) but as has been mention almost the limit of luggability in and out.

The balance of the funds, believe me, will quickly dissappear in "extras": eyepieces, new focusers, adaptors, filters, guide camera (QHY5) and a modded webcam (or DMK21) for the planets/ moon. Then comes the up-graded laptop ( use XP not Vista) etc etc etc.

Unfortunately things have changed in the last twenty years; everything is more sophisticated and expensive!!!!

Best of luck.

[Ben Ritchie]

That is what I had in mind, a 12-inch Dobsonian and a short-tube APO refractor on a suitable GEQ mount. Start with that and see how it goes.

Totally agree with this - for imaging and visual you're really trying to cover two quite different sets of requirements and trying to do it with one telescope is always a compromise. Better to get one visual and one imaging 'scope and let each work to their strengths.

A 12" Dob is great value for money for visual, I love my 12" Skywatcher, while an 80mm apochromatic refractor is a near-perfect starting point for imaging. If you can find a gold-tube Skywatcher 80ED used then they're superb value for money (£150 or so, or a bit more with an upgraded focuser). Good colour correction, good optics and doesn't need a flattener unless you're using a large sensor.

The 12" Dobbie at around f5 is also a good compromise ( easier on the eyepieces!!) but as has been mention almost the limit of luggability in and out.

Luggable is the right word, although I find mine easy enough to deal with and at 5' 11", 140lb i'm not exactly a weightlifter. The flextube is a bit easier than the solid tube, but neither are too bad. Trying to get the same OTA onto a GEM though (rather than dobsonian base) is a whole different experience though

[FLO]

I know I won't have the GOTO mount but maybe I should learn my way around the sky like I did when I was a kid, before GOTO mounts (and CCDs and computers!).

Yes, there is something very satisfying about finding your own way around the sky but when imaging you are often searching out targets you cannot see visually so having a mount that can centre them on the sensor automatically is rather useful. If you decide on the HEQ5 or EQ6 then you could opt for the Syntrek versions, they have the same motors and motherboard but without the GOTO handset. Then when imaging you could control it via a laptop and EQ-Mod, or buy the GOTO handset.

HTH

[Doc]

How about leaving the imaging side for now and learning the sky with a big dob.

With your budget a 16" dob and a fantastic eyepiece collection.

[alfingido]

I'm still a bit confused, if I buy a 12" dob for visual work and an 80mm refractor for photography then what do I use an EQ6 mount for? Surely I just buy an EQ5 or equivalent for the refractor and this saves me £600 or so (to spend on eyepieces etc ). I know I won't have the GOTO mount but maybe I should learn my way around the sky like I did when I was a kid, before GOTO mounts (and CCDs and computers!).

What does everyone think?

RW

I bought an EQ5 pro ( eq5 in White with synscan goto fitted) and use that for my ED80. The mount is pretty sturdy and light enough for me to carry it outside, all assembled and ready to go . True, the HEQ5 and EQ6 mounts are more sturdy and will carry more weight but at the expense of portability

I got my EQ5 pro from Startelescopes for £419 delivered, last week. A substantial saving on the bigger mounts, left me enough to buy a Meade DSI II pro for imaging. This has inbuilt guiding so I don't need a separate guider and guide scope, again, cutting down on weight. Maybe in the future I will need better kit, if so, I can upgrade the mount and ccd later.

Allan

[alfingido]

Forgot to mention, my ED80DSPRO is also a great visual scope. Last night I could see Andromeda and the Ring Nebula almost as good as in my old 8" SCT. It's a great grab n go set up on the EQ5 for when you don't want to get the big guns out

Allan

[Ben Ritchie]

substantial saving on the bigger mounts, left me enough to buy a Meade DSI II pro for imaging. This has inbuilt guiding so I don't need a separate guider and guide scope, again, cutting down on weight

Are you sure that's right - the DSI II I owned didn't. My understanding was that SBIG own the patent on self-guiding, which is why the other high-end CCD makers can't use it, although some (e.g. QSI) have a built-in off-axis guider.

[FLO]

If considering the EQ5-PRO checkout also the Celestron CG-5 GT: more sturdy tripod, quality bearings in both axis and more mature firmware.

[alfingido]

Are you sure that's right - the DSI II I owned didn't. My understanding was that SBIG own the patent on self-guiding, which is why the other high-end CCD makers can't use it, although some (e.g. QSI) have a built-in off-axis guider.

Yes, or so I am reliably informed. There is an lx200 emulation programme that will enable guiding instructions to be sent to the mount. I shall find out in the next week or so if it works but it gets good reviews in the iceinspace forums in Oz ( don't mention The Ashes)

Allan

[Merlin66]

I don't think SBig have any coverage on self guiding cameras.

If anybody were to have a "patent" it surely would be Starlight Express with the STAR 2000 inter-line system; to my knowledge it pre-existed anything similar from SBiG.

I have a few DSI's and never heard of self-guiding... I think there may be some confusion here...

[Ben Ritchie]

I don't think SBig have any coverage on self guiding cameras.

If anybody were to have a "patent" it surely would be Starlight Express with the STAR 2000 inter-line system; to my knowledge it pre-existed anything similar from SBiG.

Dual CCD Self-Guiding (U.S. Patent # 5,525,793) is owned by SBIG - it dates back to 1994 and the ST-7, I think. They have separate imaging and guiding CCDs in one body so all of the main CCD is imaging, but the guide CCD is (a) small and ( off-axis which can cause some problems.

Starlight-Xpress' STAR2000 uses a feature of some (?) interlaced Sony CCDs that allows half the CCD to image while the other half guides, so you get self-guiding with one CCD but integrations are twice as long. Advantage is that you can use any star on the CCD to guide with. Disadvantages are longer exposures, and the need for the CCD to support it.

In both cases, self-guiding through filters can be a pain, especially for narrowband (unless your mount can take 30s guide exposures)

If the DSI can self-guide, i'd guess it's using the STAR200-type interlaced support for the Sony DSI chip, although it's the first i'd heard of it. Maybe some EQMOD-stlye cleverness somewhere?

[daz]

Guys

Sorry, can we stay OT for this posters question? Let's not confuse him further, and enjoy spending his money

[adamsp123]

My 2p worth.....

I started again the tail end of last year after a 30year layoff, the amount of kit available is staggering but what I found is that although I like observing I much prefer to image after spending a fair bit on observational items.

If I had realised that imaging was for me right from the off, I could have saved a fair few quid.

So may I suggest get an EQ6 pro goto mount, whatever you end up doing this is a future proof investment.

Second the OTA for imaging, a refractor is nice but an 8" skywatcher F/5 or GSO F/4 Newtonian would be an alternative. I have the GSO, it is compact light and photographically fast but the downside is you need the collimation spot on, and for imaging a coma corrector is a must. For Visual you can use on the F/4 scope Televue plossls which won't break the bank ("standard" plossls don't work so well at F/4).

If you get hooked on imaging then splash out on an autoguiding setup and get a dirty great Dob later for visual use whilst the camera is rolling.

Just an alternative idea.

Pete

[ollypenrice]

For imaging, which is already difficult, nothing reduces the complexity like a refractor. No collimation or image shift and less dewing than on any other system. If you could rely on a fast Newtonian to deliver the goods that would be different but they are likely to be fickle. They just are. Fiddle with this this, fiddle with that...ah, clouds again. Down here I am always trying to get the most for my guests in the time they have. Call me an old Fuddy Duddy but, say I, Refractor!

Olly

[Red Wulff]

Guys

Sorry, can we stay OT for this posters question? Let's not confuse him further, and enjoy spending his money

Thanks Daz, I was getting somewhat confused. I'm taking baby steps for now and the advice is really great.

I'm now looking at 80mm apo refractors, but I've seen that most of them are around f6 or f7 and isn't that a little slow for imaging?

[Red Wulff]

My 2p worth.....

So may I suggest get an EQ6 pro goto mount, whatever you end up doing this is a future proof investment.

Pete thanks for this advice, I have the EQ6 goto mount inked in on my shopping list, now I just need to decide what scope(s) to stick on top of it!

RW