Choosing between 4" ED Refractors for visual

[quasar117]

I'm swaying towards the Skytee2 as a more future proof option.

[quasar117]

However if I could get a secondhand AZ4 for cheap it wouldn't be much of a loss trying that out.

[Franklin]

2 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I'll throw another option into the mix which does have slow motions - the Vixen APZ from Bresser UK. 

Great choice and the free-stop and slow-motion controls are on another level. I use my APZ with an SD81S but I've used it in the past with the SD103S F7.7 and it performed flawlessly. More expensive coming from Vixen but you get what you pay for in this world.

Edited February 19 by Franklin

[paulastro]

23 minutes ago, jock1958 said:

Hi Paul what’s the FLO version of the Skytee 2 and how does it differ from other versions?
Until an affordable quality replacement comes along I’ll soldier on with my 8 year old ST 2. 

Hi Jock.  From memory, the only differences are it comes with two counterweights and has StellaLyra written on it in a coupleof places.  I think it's also about £30  cheaper.   You can check it out on their website.

[Stu]

Out of interest, how much do the SkyTees weigh? I had one for a while and from memory they are chunky beasts? Very solid, though a little agricultural as has been said. Mine was drilled to take saddles both ends which was useful, I think some versions come like that now?

 

[jock1958]

6 minutes ago, paulastro said:

Hi Jock.  From memory, the only differences are it comes with two counterweights and has StellaLyra written on it in a coupleof places.  I think it's also about £30  cheaper.   You can check it out on their website.

Cheers Paul, I will have a look at their website.
I know there’s been various iterations of this mount over the years including the TS Optics AZ5 which looks the same with apparent quality improvements. 

[lvan]

You seem set on a 4” frac but as your observing time is limited, once the initial excitement has worn off, are you certain a mid sized frac on a mid sized / future proofed mount will get more use than your dob? You already have a light bucket, why not something a bit more grab and go?

[jock1958]

18 minutes ago, Stu said:

Out of interest, how much do the SkyTees weigh? I had one for a while and from memory they are chunky beasts? Very solid, though a little agricultural as has been said. Mine was drilled to take saddles both ends which was useful, I think some versions come like that now?

 

Not 100% sure Stu but I think it’s around 5kg 🤔

[quasar117]

6 minutes ago, lvan said:

You seem set on a 4” frac but as your observing time is limited, once the initial excitement has worn off, are you certain a mid sized frac on a mid sized / future proofed mount will get more use than your dob? You already have a light bucket, why not something a bit more grab and go

To my mind it will be more grab and go-  aswell I can setup it up quickly, cool down time is next to nothing, no pre observing collimation. 

I feel if I go for a smaller OTA I would be sacrificing too much. I'm am considering the AZ4 mount though as the Skytee2 is a lump.

[lvan]

All good, I’ll shut up now!

[Highburymark]

I have a bad back - and can carry my Skytee 2 on a Gitzo 5 tripod outside without a problem. It handles my 120mm (6.7kg) refractor beautifully, with the slow-motion control I need for high power viewing. I think the Skytee is one of the best purchases I’ve made. Whether it’s overkill for the 102mm F/7 I don’t know, but I wouldn’t worry too much about the mount’s weight.

[mikeDnight]

3 hours ago, quasar117 said:

The Vixen APZ looks the business for sure! At twice the cost of a Skytee2 though is it twice as good? 

 

 

The APZ is able to use motor drives and Star Book I believe . All at extra cost of course.  Its also most likely better engineerd too, but "twice as good"?  It's prettier!

 

[cajen2]

Not quite sure why there's a feeding frenzy on the Sightron alt/az mount. I bought one as a grab & go mount for my Starfield 102 - it weighs only 1.45 kg yet can hold up to 7kg.  Yes, it isn't cheap and I had to experiment quite a lot to find an arm position which allows a near vertical attitude for the scope but it's extremely convenient for my use. I can pick up scope, mount and tripod and be outside in seconds, it's easy to set up and the slo-mo controls are smooth. At high mags (say 150-200x), there are vibrations when focusing but I expected that and they damp down immediately. The only thing I really object to is the positioning of the az slo-mo knob - as said, it has to be on the far side of the mount if you're viewing near the zenith, but I'm used to that now.

I have a long-term plan to find something with slow mos, a high payload capacity and which is lightweight and cheap......but I haven't found a mount like this yet. I suspect I never will....😉

[Stu]

Interestingly there is a ScopeTech Zero for sale on ABS. I’ve not tried a Sightron so don’t know if it’s any better or worse than the ScopeTech. Mine is not without vibration, but is a one handed lift of the whole setup so is very convenient and gets used a lot. With slo mos and a fine focuser I find the vibrations damp down quickly.

[Sunshine]

Which refractor did you decide on? I have looked through the starfield 102 for a good hour with Jupiter and was impressed with it. A friend tenting next to me had one, it was built well and solid! Jupiter was very nice. If  this counts for anything, my own 4” refractor standing next to my tent at the time was TSA-102 so I knew i was looking through a good 4” in the Starfield.

Edited February 20 by Sunshine

[Ratlet]

The only small issue with sky watcher mounts I have is the way they hold the telescope.  It mangles the dovetail.  You end up with little dimples all along the dovetail.

You can get replacement saddles, but not for the az4.

Really wish I hadn't come in the thread though.  Getting a 102 and sky T2 seems such a reasonable idea all of a sudden.

[Moonlit Night]

I had a couple of TAL 100’s (R and RS). I loved mine at the time. I still have a soft spot for them now to be honest. Most of us still had achromatic scopes, ED scopes were for the super rich. The scene has changed massively, there seems to be much more money about these days and much less blokes in sheds. Don’t get me wrong, I am not about to go back to fl10-fl15 achromatic refractors, but I do think we have lost something along the way.

Edited February 20 by Moonlit Night

[Naughty Neal]

11 hours ago, cajen2 said:

Not quite sure why there's a feeding frenzy on the Sightron alt/az mount. I bought one as a grab & go mount for my Starfield 102 - it weighs only 1.45 kg yet can hold up to 7kg.  Yes, it isn't cheap and I had to experiment quite a lot to find an arm position which allows a near vertical attitude for the scope but it's extremely convenient for my use. I can pick up scope, mount and tripod and be outside in seconds, it's easy to set up and the slo-mo controls are smooth. At high mags (say 150-200x), there are vibrations when focusing but I expected that and they damp down immediately. The only thing I really object to is the positioning of the az slo-mo knob - as said, it has to be on the far side of the mount if you're viewing near the zenith, but I'm used to that now.

I have a long-term plan to find something with slow mos, a high payload capacity and which is lightweight and cheap......but I haven't found a mount like this yet. I suspect I never will....😉

Take a look at the Svbony sv225 mount , it appears to be a take on the Porta 2 mount and they claim 10kg loading .  The scope arm can be set at an angle  to enable zenith.  

[Sunshine]

Regarding the SV225 mentioned above, I was curious and looked into it and ran into a CN review. Apparently the user states that it is fine with smaller scopes up to 90mm but does not hold his 102 steadily, I thought I would post a link for anyone considering this mount.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/900883-is-the-new-svbony-sv225-mount-head-better-than-the-twilight-i/

Edited February 20 by Sunshine

[quasar117]

RVO don't have any Skytee2 or AZ4 mounts setup in their showroom which is a shame as id really like to try them before I buy.

[quasar117]

Is there anyone around Derby who has either of these mounts who wouldn't mind me taking a look?

Edited February 20 by quasar117
Spelling

[cajen2]

4 hours ago, Naughty Neal said:

Take a look at the Svbony sv225 mount , it appears to be a take on the Porta 2 mount and they claim 10kg loading .  The scope arm can be set at an angle  to enable zenith.  

Looks an interesting little mount but won't be any improvement on the Sightron, I don't think.

[John]

I think these single arm alt-azimuth mounts need to be designed and engineered really well to be able to hold a 4 inch F/7 or longer refractor steady at higher magnifications. 

The AZ-4 does well for all it's simplicity because it's arm is not as long as some and is not ventilated - it's a solid shape with cast in strengthening spokes. Those "cut away" style long armed mounts will cope with short tube scopes fine but the moment arm forces created by longer tubes create that much more stress on the head and tripod hub areas. 

[Moonlit Night]

I have never for the life of me never understood why the AZ 4 was never that popular. In my opinion, I don’t think people appreciated or even tried them because they weren’t reassuringly expensive enough. 
 

I don’t like the new white livery btw, it looks tacky. 

[Moonlit Night]

Also one would imagine a AZ5 would be more manly than the AZ4, which it absolutely is not.