Jupiter

[Manoah]

I have a 76/700mm telescope. The moon views are amazing. Tonight i started looking at jupiter, here is a picture that i made with a 4mm eyepeace. The problem im having is that other people With the same telescope can see jupiters bands and im just getting a bright white light. Do i need a difrent eyepeace? I have a 20mm 12.5mm and a 4mm. It was amazing tho, seeing the moons as well.

[Bivanus]

Hmmm....Lets see:  

Looks rather similar to what you see it seems. That's interesting since I can visually distinguish four bands with a 70/350mm scope and a 5mm EP - like very fine brown ink lines two a bit thicker two thinner . Only in the 102/714mm with 4mm or 3.5mm EP I could discern a bit of waviness in one of the thick lines, and it took a rather exceptional seeing condition.

Also, seeing them with your eye is one thing , filming/photographing them is quite another. Don't ask me how I know....😅 

 

 

[Mandy D]

No, you need to reduce your exposure dramatically to capture Jupiter's bands. You won't get any of the moons in a photo that shows detail on the planet.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Mandy D

[Louis D]

@Manoah, are you saying that you can't see Jupiter's bands visually?  It's just a bright white blob?  It could be that a variable polarizing filter could be used to dial down the overwhelming brightness to a level allowing your eye to perceive the low contrast details.  If that doesn't help, try using a green #56 filter to cut out the poorly focused red and blue ends of the spectrum due to either your scope being an achromat (I'm not sure what type you have) or due to atmospheric dispersion.

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi @Manoah and welcome to SGL. 

What barrel diameter are the eyepieces nosepiece? - the sizes you mention [ie 20, 12.5 & 4mm] were supplied with many beginner telescopes from years gone by and are poor quality. 

If they are 0.965” then finding accessories of that size today are limited and challenging. Below is an image of my 0.965” e/p and a 1.25” adapter for comparison.

A variable polarising filter will help get some detail [ie Jupiter’s equatorial belts] but finding them for sale new or secondhand in 0.965” is going be challenging as well.

 

[Manoah]

Thank you they are a 1,25 inch eyepeace but i will look for a polarising filter

[RT65CB-SWL]

SNow that you have said they are 1.25” what ‘scope do you have?

If you are happy with it, than I suggest you start looking at upgrading the eyepieces. My suggestion based on reading what others have said in previous topics from my time on SGL would be these... https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces.html or these... https://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-eyepieces/vixen-npl-eyepieces.html Both brands are budget friendly. Other budget friendly ones are the Svbony UWA series. They come in two flavours: the ‘Goldline’ series [AFOV 66^o] and ‘Redline’ series [AFOV 68^o]. I have one of each in 6mm. They are also sold under other brand names, so price may well vary. Avoid buying eyepiece sets. Best advice here is to buy separate ones and choose wisely. Everyone’s expectations and needs at what they see are different.

With regard to a polarising filter, I have and use this one...

 

My reason for choosing this type was you can leave one filter on the eyepiece holder and screw the other filter to the eyepiece and rotate either while in situ without having to remove everything to change the amount of light level. If using a refractor or SCT/Mak ‘scope, screw one into the star diagonal and one in the eyepiece holder. [note: I do not use the eyepiece holder with my heavy eyepieces and I have a few of them].

Another filter you may find useful is the Baader Neodymium. It is one of my most used filters. I often refer to it or call it my ‘Swiss-army knife’ filter. Colour filters or filter sets are a ‘marmite’ thing... you either love it or hate it!

Another ‘marmite’ thing is a zoom eyepiece. The most popular type is 8-24mm. I have a 7-21mm and it is OK for my expectations and needs.

Edited December 30, 2023 by RT65CB-SWL

[GasGiant]

I snagged Jupiter last night. 

Im finding that getting the moons in shot over exposes the planet. but if I crank the exposure down the moons disappear. Lots to learn yet ! 

Viewing with a 30mm Eyepiece is very comfortable. When I switch to the 9 ( its all I have a the moment ) the planet whizzes past at a great rate of knots haha. I have a job with the dob keeping up.

Edited December 30, 2023 by GasGiant

[Mandy D]

14 minutes ago, GasGiant said:

I snagged Jupiter last night. 

Im finding that getting the moons in shot over exposes the planet. but if I crank the exposure down the moons disappear. Lots to learn yet ! 

Viewing with a 30mm Eyepiece is very comfortable. When I switch to the 9 ( its all I have a the moment ) the planet whizzes past at a great rate of knots haha. I have a job with the dob keeping up.

 

 

This is just the way it is with imaging Jupiter (and Saturn): correct exposure for the planet is vastly different to correct exposure for the moons. You need to take two sets of images, one for the planet and another for the moons, process them separately and then drop the moons onto the Jupiter image. It's the only way you'll get both.

[Louis D]

7 hours ago, GasGiant said:

When I switch to the 9 ( its all I have a the moment ) the planet whizzes past at a great rate of knots haha. I have a job with the dob keeping up.

Look into getting an ultra to hyper wide angle 9mm eyepiece to give you more dwell time between nudges.

[Louis D]

11 hours ago, Manoah said:

Thank you they are a 1,25 inch eyepeace but i will look for a polarising filter

Check ebay for low cost 1.25" filters, such as variable polarizing sets.

10 hours ago, RT65CB-SWL said:

Another filter you may find useful is the Baader Neodymium. It is one of my most used filters. I often refer to it or call it my ‘Swiss-army knife’ filter.

Again, the low cost Moon & Skyglow filters from ebay are basically the same as the BN filter for less than 10% of the cost:

Any of the mid-strength blue filters (#80C, #80B or #80A) work well on Jupiter.  Unfortunately, I've only been able to find #80C and #80B in 2" (48mm photographic) size.  The #80A is readily available in 1.25" size, but a bit dark for my taste.

[Zermelo]

9 hours ago, Louis D said:

Again, the low cost Moon & Skyglow filters from ebay are basically the same as the BN filter for less than 10% of the cost

+1 for this.  I bought one of these for about £6 and it does better bringing out detail on Jupiter than anything else I've used.

[bosun21]

I actually prefer observing Jupiter unfiltered. I will increase or decrease the magnification until I get the best image for the seeing conditions and then settle down to spend some time on it. 

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, bosun21 said:

I actually prefer observing Jupiter unfiltered. I will increase or decrease the magnification until I get the best image for the seeing conditions and then settle down to spend some time on it. 

Try doing that in a fast achromat.  I've found with my 6" f/5.9 achromat that I need to filter everything below about 470nm to above about 625nm to get a reasonably sharp image.  Basically, a yellow-blue/green filter.  The problem is, no one makes such a beast for unknown reasons, so I've been assembling my own by stacking various shortpass and longpass dielectric filters to determine the widest passband possible at the best image sharpness.

When using an APO, Mak, or Newt, I would agree about going unfiltered, but I would add using binoviewers helps to really bring out details.

[bosun21]

31 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Try doing that in a fast achromat.  I've found with my 6" f/5.9 achromat that I need to filter everything below about 470nm to above about 625nm to get a reasonably sharp image.  Basically, a yellow-blue/green filter.  The problem is, no one makes such a beast for unknown reasons, so I've been assembling my own by stacking various shortpass and longpass dielectric filters to determine the widest passband possible at the best image sharpness.

When using an APO, Mak, or Newt, I would agree about going unfiltered, but I would add using binoviewers helps to really bring out details.

I’ve only owned one achromat  and that was a 120 f9. I own a full set of wratten coloured filters and have basically never used them. I will have to try them out more, but with so few clear nights at the moment I hesitate to spend valuable observing time experimenting. Perhaps I should address this in the future.

[JTEC]

Just a personal experience, but the Baader Neodymium Moon and Skyglow is the only filter I’ve found to add anything useful to visual observation of Jupiter and Mars - including all the reds, oranges, blues, etc that some observers recommend.  I think the Baader adds a smidgeon of contrast that might be construed as increased available detail, but it’s slight.  Perhaps I’m missing something, but I’ve given the coloured visual filters lots of tries over the years and can’t honestly say that I’ve seen anything with a red, blue, etc filter that couldn’t be seen without.  As for Moon filters, yes brightness is an issue but, without exception, they appear to me to reduce perception of detail and degrade image quality.
 

Binoviewers are a different story, I think.  I’ll be gently provocative here and say that, imv, binoviewing is simply the best, arguably the only way to see the planetary detail your telescope can offer you.  There, I said it 🤣

 

https://www.darkskiesmatter.org.uk

Edited December 31, 2023 by JTEC

[John]

I bought a Tele Vue Planetary Filter a few years back, before they were discontinued. With the TV branding it was not inexpensive !

When I used it on Jupiter I found that it did slightly enhance the visibility of the more obvious jovian surface features however that seemed to come at the expense of making the more subtle features harder or impossible to pick up 🤔

Eventually I decided that I preferred the unfiltered view.

 

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, bosun21 said:

I’ve only owned one achromat  and that was a 120 f9.

I've had an ST80 for 20+ years, and never really cared for it.

I came across a used KUO 152mm f/5.9 under the Astro Telescopes brand recently for a decent price, so I bought it to see if 6" of unobstructed aperture could make up for its enormous amount of false color at both ends of the spectrum and some SA.  So far, I'd say no.  My 6" f/5 GSO Newt and 90mm TS APO FPL-53 Triplet both walk circles around it.  I haven't given up on it, though.  Thus, my tinkering with various filter combinations.  See some of my experimentation starting at the post below:

 

[JTEC]

Thanks, Louis. Interesting read. 

[PeterStudz]

On 31/12/2023 at 11:55, bosun21 said:

I actually prefer observing Jupiter unfiltered. I will increase or decrease the magnification until I get the best image for the seeing conditions and then settle down to spend some time on it. 

This is basically what I prefer and do too. I have an 8” Dob and have tried coloured filters on Jupiter and cannot see any benefit. Eg a blue filter doesn’t seem to bring out any more detail and just makes the planet, well, blue. And I don’t find a variable polarising filter any use. Although I do find it helpful on Mars and Venus.

I’d also add that for Jupiter and the bright planets do NOT get eyes adapted to the dark. Your eyes are poor at seeing colours and colour contrast when use to the dark. When observing Jupiter I often look at a bright light (like my phone screen) or go inside for a break/coffee. 

I’m in an urban environment I find that a simple dew shield (you can make one from black foam from a camping mat) useful in keeping out stay light.

Spend a good time observing. I’ll can go around 3 hours on Jupiter, especially if something interesting is happening, eg a shadow transit. I do enjoy those! 

For a Newtonian make sure that it’s well collimated.

Form some reason some eyepieces have better colour contract and show colours better than others. I’ve noticed that the 12mm BST StarGuider is decent in this respect. Using a 2x Barlow to give 6mm still retains this aspect.

After practice you will get use to nudging in order to keep things in view. After a while it becomes second nature and you hardly notice it. As suggested a wide angle eyepiece will help. However, for the future (and if you have a Dob) maybe consider an EQ platform. I made an EQ platform for much less than the price of good hyper wide angle eyepiece. I followed the great guide ‘10” Equatorial Platform for Dummies’  in the ‘DIY Astronomer’ section in this site and it cost me about £85, although I already had some of the bits. It’s fine for smaller 6”-8” Dobs too. Now planets etc stay in the FOV without constant nudging.

When trying to use a camera it is possible to record both the bands and moons by playing with exposure/brightness. Sure, if you process the image further the moons can be lost. To illustrate this I’ve attached a short animated GIF from a video taken on 12th December. The little dot bottom right is Europa.

This was recorded using a basic iPhone camera via the stock iPhone camera app. Adjustments & crop made in the stock camera app. No fancy processing, editing or stacking. Out of interested, I used a BST StarGuider 3.2 mm for x375 plus the camera x2 zoom. Far too much for the then average seeing conditions, but you can still see the bands and details. The GIF process looses some resolution too but it still does a good job of giving an idea of what I could see through my 8” Dob. Mind, visually I could make out more. Just about everyone has a smartphone these days so it’s something most can do. 
 

[bosun21]

2 minutes ago, PeterStudz said:

This is basically what I prefer and do too. I have an 8” Dob and have tried coloured filters on Jupiter and cannot see any benefit. Eg a blue filter doesn’t seem to bring out any more detail and just makes the planet, well, blue. And I don’t find a variable polarising filter any use. Although I do find it helpful on Mars and Venus.

I’d also add that for Jupiter and the bright planets do NOT get eyes adapted to the dark. Your eyes are poor at seeing colours and colour contrast when use to the dark. When observing Jupiter I often look at a bright light (like my phone screen) or go inside for a break/coffee. 

I’m in an urban environment I find that a simple dew shield (you can make one from black foam from a camping mat) useful in keeping out stay light.

Spend a good time observing. I’ll can go around 3 hours on Jupiter, especially if something interesting is happening, eg a shadow transit. I do enjoy those! 

For a Newtonian make sure that it’s well collimated.

Form some reason some eyepieces have better colour contract and show colours better than others. I’ve noticed that the 12mm BST StarGuider is decent in this respect. Using a 2x Barlow to give 6mm still retains this aspect.

After practice you will get use to nudging in order to keep things in view. After a while it becomes second nature and you hardly notice it. As suggested a wide angle eyepiece will help. However, for the future (and if you have a Dob) maybe consider an EQ platform. I made an EQ platform for much less than the price of good hyper wide angle eyepiece. I followed the great guide ‘10” Equatorial Platform for Dummies’  in the ‘DIY Astronomer’ section in this site and it cost me about £85, although I already had some of the bits. It’s fine for smaller 6”-8” Dobs too. Now planets etc stay in the FOV without constant nudging.

When trying to use a camera it is possible to record both the bands and moons by playing with exposure/brightness. Sure, if you process the image further the moons can be lost. To illustrate this I’ve attached a short animated GIF from a video taken on 12th December. The little dot bottom right is Europa.

This was recorded using a basic iPhone camera via the stock iPhone camera app. Adjustments & crop made in the stock camera app. No fancy processing, editing or stacking. Out of interested, I used a BST StarGuider 3.2 mm for x375 plus the camera x2 zoom. Far too much for the then average seeing conditions, but you can still see the bands and details. The GIF process looses some resolution too but it still does a good job of giving an idea of what I could see through my 8” Dob. Mind, visually I could make out more. Just about everyone has a smartphone these days so it’s something most can do. 
 

I’m not the OP. I actually have owned several dobsonians from 8” to 12”. I currently own a new 10” go to dobsonian. I have also started planetary

imaging recently for which I used a 6” Maksutov but will now use my new dobsonian (when the clouds disappear)

[PeterStudz]

2 hours ago, bosun21 said:

I’m not the OP. I actually have owned several dobsonians from 8” to 12”. I currently own a new 10” go to dobsonian. I have also started planetary

imaging recently for which I used a 6” Maksutov but will now use my new dobsonian (when the clouds disappear)

I do know that. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear! Just trying to say that you should be able to see the bands and enjoy Jupiter etc without buying a lot of stuff. And like you I haven’t found filters helpful.

I don’t own a laptop, so ‘proper’ planetary imaging is out for me, although I prefer straightforward more traditional observation anyway. 
 

Edited January 1 by PeterStudz

[Nicola Fletcher]

13 hours ago, PeterStudz said:

This is basically what I prefer and do too. I have an 8” Dob and have tried coloured filters on Jupiter and cannot see any benefit. Eg a blue filter doesn’t seem to bring out any more detail and just makes the planet, well, blue. And I don’t find a variable polarising filter any use. Although I do find it helpful on Mars and Venus.

I’d also add that for Jupiter and the bright planets do NOT get eyes adapted to the dark. Your eyes are poor at seeing colours and colour contrast when use to the dark. When observing Jupiter I often look at a bright light (like my phone screen) or go inside for a break/coffee. 

I’m in an urban environment I find that a simple dew shield (you can make one from black foam from a camping mat) useful in keeping out stay light.

Spend a good time observing. I’ll can go around 3 hours on Jupiter, especially if something interesting is happening, eg a shadow transit. I do enjoy those! 

For a Newtonian make sure that it’s well collimated.

Form some reason some eyepieces have better colour contract and show colours better than others. I’ve noticed that the 12mm BST StarGuider is decent in this respect. Using a 2x Barlow to give 6mm still retains this aspect.

After practice you will get use to nudging in order to keep things in view. After a while it becomes second nature and you hardly notice it. As suggested a wide angle eyepiece will help. However, for the future (and if you have a Dob) maybe consider an EQ platform. I made an EQ platform for much less than the price of good hyper wide angle eyepiece. I followed the great guide ‘10” Equatorial Platform for Dummies’  in the ‘DIY Astronomer’ section in this site and it cost me about £85, although I already had some of the bits. It’s fine for smaller 6”-8” Dobs too. Now planets etc stay in the FOV without constant nudging.

When trying to use a camera it is possible to record both the bands and moons by playing with exposure/brightness. Sure, if you process the image further the moons can be lost. To illustrate this I’ve attached a short animated GIF from a video taken on 12th December. The little dot bottom right is Europa.

This was recorded using a basic iPhone camera via the stock iPhone camera app. Adjustments & crop made in the stock camera app. No fancy processing, editing or stacking. Out of interested, I used a BST StarGuider 3.2 mm for x375 plus the camera x2 zoom. Far too much for the then average seeing conditions, but you can still see the bands and details. The GIF process looses some resolution too but it still does a good job of giving an idea of what I could see through my 8” Dob. Mind, visually I could make out more. Just about everyone has a smartphone these days so it’s something most can do. 
 

This is amazing. I have a new 12” dob and haven’t seen anything like this level of detail through it. I’ve only had it out three times and I’m pretty sure it’s cooled (2 hours outdoors before use) and collimated. Maybe it was just that the seeing wasn’t great. I will have to keep trying!

[JOC]

14 hours ago, PeterStudz said:

On 31/12/2023 at 11:55, bosun21 said:

I actually prefer observing Jupiter unfiltered. I will increase or decrease the magnification until I get the best image for the seeing conditions and then settle down to spend some time on it. 

This is basically what I prefer and do too. I have an 8” Dob and have tried coloured filters on Jupiter and cannot see any benefit

I found the same looking at Jupiter with my 8" Dob.  Mind you I don't mind looking at bright objects like the moon at full brightness either.  I have comfortably seen the bands on jupiter with the 8" Dob I own.  I've yet to see the GRS - I think I've just been unlucky that on the odd occasions I go viewing it hasn't been round 'this side'.  FWIW Although I do own some filters I do find them a PITA to use.  I have got a filter wheel - which if placed under the EP makes them easier to slip in and out - an empty hole is always useful for the unfiltered view.  However, I find too much weight on the scope affects its balance and performance and 9 times out of 10 I just use a plain EP for the sheer convenience of use.

[Mr Spock]

Imaging will always show more detail than visual per aperture. However, with decent kit you can get some remarkable views.

Here's some simulated views through my scopes in good seeing conditions at opposition. Meant to be viewed on a computer screen (not a phone!) at normal distance. GRS is darker than you would see but I couldn't get that quite right!

Recently with seeing as it's been I've mostly been using the 4" and at x148 and x185. I haven't really exploited the 12" to its maximum capabilities yet, but there's still time this season.