Frustrating tech issue -- 2600MC camera failing

[Lee_P]

Hi SGL Hive Mind, I've run into a tricky tech issue and would appreciate some advice!

I'm getting error messages about my camera (2600MC) failing; and my EAF dropping out too. I'm using an ASIAIR Plus to control things. I run my EAF through the camera's hub, so I think this points to the camera being the source issue, but don't want to make any assumptions. The problem is intermittent - every other night approximately, and could occur at any point during an imaging run. I've swapped out USB cables and the black power cables, but this hasn't fixed it. My guidecam is also being run through the ASIAIR and is working perfectly. I'm using a Nevada PS-08 6-8A Regulated Linear Power Supply. Everything's run fine for more than a year and I didn't change anything prior to this issue. Any ideas what could be causing this?
 

 

[Stuart1971]

I assume now you are NOT using any ZWO supplied USB cables as they are complete junk…also have you tried the camera on other software like Sharpcap or NINA on a PC, to rule out the ASIair being the issue…as at the end of the day it’s just an RPI inside and they can fail too…

[ONIKKINEN]

Control the setup with something other than the Asiair to close out the possibility of it being the issue. Maybe you have a laptop you could jury rig to take the Asiair's place?

You could also crack out the multimeter and check the power supply, just to be sure it is actually working properly, voltage drops could easily cause weird connectivity issues if they happen.

[tomato]

I change my scope/camera configuration regularly, and I quite often get connection reliability problems when I first start up, but after a few cable unplugs (USB and power) they usually settle down. The one exception is an Atik EFW2 which can take a few sessions before it will connect up reliably. I fix this by connecting the wheel directly to the laptop port (always works) and then working out towards the scope a connection at a time. I am putting this down to the USB connections starting to become worn but who knows?

[david_taurus83]

7 hours ago, Stuart1971 said:

I assume now you are NOT using any ZWO supplied USB cables as they are complete junk…also have you tried the camera on other software like Sharpcap or NINA on a PC, to rule out the ASIair being the issue…as at the end of the day it’s just an RPI inside and they can fail too…

To be fair, I've never had an issue with the flat ZWO cables and I prefer them for their flexibility. 

[Stuart1971]

13 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

To be fair, I've never had an issue with the flat ZWO cables and I prefer them for their flexibility. 

Well you are very lucky then…as it is a very well spoken about issue on many forums…👍🏻

[ollypenrice]

I'm terminally old school and would always prefer to ditch all hubs, mini PCs etc., and run a large number of direct USBs into a desktop PC with enough USB ports.

Olly

[GoldTop57]

Lee I've seen this sort of error because of a loose 12v barrel connection to the Asiair, you might be able to replicate it by giving the barrel a very light tap with your finger. To mitigate this I bought a Lynx Astro power cable which has quite a snug barrel connection and then use velcro ties to ensure there is no cable snag on the power cable when slewing.

[GoldTop57]

Sorry just re-read your post - could the power connector to the camera be loose?

[Lee_P]

On 08/10/2023 at 09:01, Stuart1971 said:

I assume now you are NOT using any ZWO supplied USB cables as they are complete junk…also have you tried the camera on other software like Sharpcap or NINA on a PC, to rule out the ASIair being the issue…as at the end of the day it’s just an RPI inside and they can fail too…

I thought that the ZWO cables might be the issue, so I swapped them out for new ones. Alas, the problem persists.

19 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Control the setup with something other than the Asiair to close out the possibility of it being the issue. Maybe you have a laptop you could jury rig to take the Asiair's place?

You could also crack out the multimeter and check the power supply, just to be sure it is actually working properly, voltage drops could easily cause weird connectivity issues if they happen.

Yes, good thinking. A friend is coming over today with his multimeter to do just this!

18 hours ago, tomato said:

I change my scope/camera configuration regularly, and I quite often get connection reliability problems when I first start up, but after a few cable unplugs (USB and power) they usually settle down. The one exception is an Atik EFW2 which can take a few sessions before it will connect up reliably. I fix this by connecting the wheel directly to the laptop port (always works) and then working out towards the scope a connection at a time. I am putting this down to the USB connections starting to become worn but who knows?

Dodgy USB connections could explain it...

12 hours ago, GoldTop57 said:

Lee I've seen this sort of error because of a loose 12v barrel connection to the Asiair, you might be able to replicate it by giving the barrel a very light tap with your finger. To mitigate this I bought a Lynx Astro power cable which has quite a snug barrel connection and then use velcro ties to ensure there is no cable snag on the power cable when slewing.

The barrel connection to the ASIAIR isn't the best. A light tap does knock the power out -- but entirely, rather than reproducing the specific issue I'm having trouble with. I wrap the cable (Lynx Astro!) around the OTA's tube ring locking screw to take the strain off, and am looking into getting some extra custom support 3D printed. I'd be interested to see your Velcro tie solution, if you've time to post a photo.

 

12 hours ago, GoldTop57 said:

Sorry just re-read your post - could the power connector to the camera be loose?

A good idea, but I've checked and rechecked. All fine. Even tried new power cables.

[Stuart1971]

1 minute ago, Lee_P said:

thought that the ZWO cables might be the issue, so I swapped them out for new ones. Alas, the problem persists.

So the next thing is to try the set up on a PC and not the ASIair to rule that out…👍🏻

[Lee_P]

6 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

So the next thing is to try the set up on a PC and not the ASIair to rule that out…👍🏻

Yep, the trouble there is that I use my ASIAIR as a power hub as well. So it's a bit tricky. But it's getting to that stage.

It actually all ran fine last night. My ASIAIR has two USB3 ports -- one for the camera, one for the flash drive. I swapped these around, in case the physical port is dodgy. It all worked fine -- but this problem is intermittent, so I want lots more flawless nights before I can say that's the root cause with any confidence.

[Elp]

Regarding 12v cables you need to make sure they're the 5.5 x 2.1 type, I was getting asiair restarts using the larger type as its seating in the 12v in could be prone to lateral movement either directly or when the setup was slewing.

Also check your total power draw hasn't changed, you can see this in the asiair power output window with the plus but I don't know how accurate it is. In the earlier days once I had all autoguiding setup the first few sessions setup was fine and the moment I went indoors I'd go back out to find my 183 had disconnected. I narrowed it down to the WiFi extender I was using at the time (with the pro) drawing too much amps via the usb power, also why I don't run dew heaters via the air as they're the most power hungry out the lot.

[Lee_P]

7 minutes ago, Elp said:

Regarding 12v cables you need to make sure they're the 5.5 x 2.1 type, I was getting asiair restarts using the larger type as its seating in the 12v in could be prone to lateral movement either directly or when the setup was slewing.

Also check your total power draw hasn't changed, you can see this in the asiair power output window with the plus but I don't know how accurate it is. In the earlier days once I had all autoguiding setup the first few sessions setup was fine and the moment I went indoors I'd go back out to find my 183 had disconnected. I narrowed it down to the WiFi extender I was using at the time (with the pro) drawing too much amps via the usb power, also why I don't run dew heaters via the air as they're the most power hungry out the lot.

I think I'm ok on that front. Everything's been fine with this kit for literally years, so it's a head-scratcher for sure. 

[Ouroboros]

15 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

I'm terminally old school and would always prefer to ditch all hubs, mini PCs etc., and run a large number of direct USBs into a desktop PC with enough USB ports.

Olly

Funnily enough it was the frustration of drop-outs using direct, wired USBs in PCs and Macs over ten years or so that led me to the ASIair which I have found to be (mostly) far more reliable. 

[Stuart1971]

4 minutes ago, Lee_P said:

I think I'm ok on that front. Everything's been fine with this kit for literally years, so it's a head-scratcher for sure. 

Looking at that I would suspect it’s the draw of the dew heaters, hence the intermittent issues, when they kick in they can take power from elsewhere and cause disconnects, can you not put those on a separate supply…?

[Lee_P]

1 minute ago, Stuart1971 said:

Looking at that I would suspect it’s the draw of the dew heaters, hence the intermittent issues, when they kick in they can take power from elsewhere and cause disconnects, can you not put those on a separate supply…?

Well I'm sure I could if necessary -- but I've been using the dew heaters like this for years and they've never caused any issues, so I'm not sure they're the culprit. But I'll certainly add them to the suspect list 😂

[Elp]

Early on I knew not to use dew heaters with the airs, you only have to use them with their own batteries to know how power hungry they are, I can power my whole setup without dew heaters using one battery whilst if the single dew heater were to use the same battery will drain the same amount of power in the same operating time if not quicker. Don't discount their internal structure breaking down either, it is a heating element after all even though relatively low power. Not all dew heaters are built equally either, some are less efficient than others I've found.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Elp

[Lee_P]

3 minutes ago, Elp said:

Early on I knew not to use dew heaters with the airs, you only have to use them with their own batteries to know how power hungry they are, I can power my whole setup without dew heaters using one battery whilst if the single dew heater were to use the same battery will drain the same amount of power in the same operating time if not quicker. Don't discount their internal structure breaking down either, it is a heating element after all even though relatively low power. Not all dew heaters are built equally either, some are less efficient than others I've found.

Note that I use mains power, so am not bothered at the prospect of dew heaters being power hungry.

[Elp]

Yes but I suspect they draw a lot of amps and not necessarily in a controlled manner. You'll immediately know by switching your setup on and removing them to see if you get the issue, can try this during the day, have your cameras cooling and running, mount tracking etc to replicate night time use.

[Lee_P]

1 minute ago, Elp said:

Yes but I suspect they draw a lot of amps and not necessarily in a controlled manner. You'll immediately know by switching your setup on and removing them to see if you get the issue, can try this during the day, have your cameras cooling and running, mount tracking etc to replicate night time use.

Yes, this is a good idea. Thanks. I've actually been running things all day and it's been fine. Intermittent issues are the worst 😅

[Lee_P]

10 hours ago, Elp said:

Yes but I suspect they draw a lot of amps and not necessarily in a controlled manner. You'll immediately know by switching your setup on and removing them to see if you get the issue, can try this during the day, have your cameras cooling and running, mount tracking etc to replicate night time use.

Definitely not dew heaters. I removed them from the equation entirely but the fault remains.

[Elp]

Likely cable or usb port, have you tried moving the usb cables near the port whilst they're plugged in and running?

[Lee_P]

17 minutes ago, Elp said:

Likely cable or usb port, have you tried moving the usb cables near the port whilst they're plugged in and running?

Yep, everything passes the cable wiggle test. Except for the main ASIAIR power cable, but if that moves (unlikely in action because I have it tied down) it knocks the whole system out, not just the camera.

An electrician friend visited today and tested everything with his multimeter. All fine. Even opened up the ASIAIR and re-soldered the USB ports. No joy.

I've ordered a new ASIAIR from FLO. I'll swap that in and see what happens. Either it'll solve the issue or narrow down the suspect components.

Gah, sometimes I realise how mad we are to have this as a hobby 😅

[Stuart1971]

8 minutes ago, Lee_P said:

Yep, everything passes the cable wiggle test. Except for the main ASIAIR power cable, but if that moves (unlikely in action because I have it tied down) it knocks the whole system out, not just the camera.

An electrician friend visited today and tested everything with his multimeter. All fine. Even opened up the ASIAIR and re-soldered the USB ports. No joy.

I've ordered a new ASIAIR from FLO. I'll swap that in and see what happens. Either it'll solve the issue or narrow down the suspect components.

Gah, sometimes I realise how mad we are to have this as a hobby 😅

Ordered a new ASIair, 😮 that is an expensive way to test, when you could have just hooked up to another PC to test, that would have ruled out the ASIair, you must have an endless supply of money…😂😂