Budget Eyepieces - Trash or Treasure?

[AstralFields]

After a year of observing, I had a look as to whether it was a good idea to use budget eyepieces with my 8" DOB

 

[mikeDnight]

A very sensible and enjoyable consideration of basic eyepieces. It's nice to hear someone who values their positive qualities rather than condemn them before actually using them. 

[wookie1965]

I have not got one eyepiece in my collection I have paid more than £70 for which includes the SVBony 3-8mm.

[Ratlet]

I like this video.  I think you and me have a similar attitude to eyepieces.  Doesn't need to be good, but good enough.

My budget brand was the best Starguiders and where I've got them, I don't feel a need to replace them.  Very much good enough.  I did get the 16mm nirvana which found my limit for edge of field aberration. Also found that I don't like a massive FOV myself.  60-70 is plenty for me.  82° does nothing for me at the moment.

Heck, for some sketching the tight FOV of a plossl is nice.  Everything is right there in front of you.

I would suggest, if someone is into planetary and doesn't wear glasses they should pick up the svbony 3-8mm.  You're essentially getting 5 eyepieces for the price, but with the added benefit of not having to change the eyepiece at high power which can be a frustrating experience at high power.

I did get a Morpheus 17.5mm but honestly I'm just as happy with my BST Starguiders, and they cost 1/4 the price each.  The Morpheus is good, but the Starguiders are definitely good enough.

[apaulo]

did you sell the morph.

[bosun21]

The 17.5mm Morpheus is far superior to the Starguider. I do like the Starguiders though and was contemplating buying a few pairs of them for binoviewing. I don’t really want to buy more expensive pairs until I decide whether binoviewing is for me or not. Still waiting for clear nights with preferably the moon in the sky to put this to the test.

[bomberbaz]

6 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

The 17.5mm Morpheus is far superior to the Starguider. I do like the Starguiders though and was contemplating buying a few pairs of them for binoviewing. I don’t really want to buy more expensive pairs until I decide whether binoviewing is for me or not. Still waiting for clear nights with preferably the moon in the sky to put this to the test.

I bought 2 of 8mm bst for using in large bins. They are top end of what is useable in them, so don't get used that often and so didn't want to sink a lot of cash into the pair.

[AstralFields]

4 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

A very sensible and enjoyable consideration of basic eyepieces. It's nice to hear someone who values their positive qualities rather than condemn them before actually using them. 

It is not even that I can't afford the more expensive stuff, I just personally haven't felt the need yet. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. I totally get people who have the premium stuff, especially with their sub f/6 scopes, but for me personally my eyepieces are simply more than enough right now. 

There is also a certain freedom in observing with these eyepieces. "Oh look, my eyepiece fell on the floor/wet grass/sand... oops.. well, I guess I almost lost a whole 29$). What a catastrophe that would be." I would probably have a different reaction if it was a 300$ eyepiece :). This actually happened, the very first day I got the 40mm AngelEyes, the bottom of the box fell right on the tiles beneath me. It survived just fine. The modified Kellner inside is I guess less prone to such impacts than an eyepiece with 10+ elements.

It is also a great way of making astronomy more accessible to beginners, especially if they've gotten something like a 6" f/8 or my 8" f/6. A beginner observing with a 29$ 'red line' 68 degree eyepiece, that is "good enough as Ratlet said" is a much happier observer than the one who is not observing because he/she was told "Astronomy is expensive, don't even try without a Televue", I am exaggerating a bit of course but that is the vibe I get sometimes from some forums (not this one). This was actually the main reason I made the video, to provide a counter argument.

Edited August 28, 2023 by AstralFields

[Ratlet]

4 hours ago, apaulo said:

did you sell the morph.

No, I picked it up in the recent sale and with inflation it'll never be cheaper than that.

Part of the reason I bought it was to see what a top end eyepiece was like and it is very much brilliant, but for where I am in my astro journey I don't need that level of quality to enjoy the views. 

I'm only a year into observing, but in another 5 years I might outgrow my Starguiders and replace them with morphs, but right now they are perfect for me.

[John]

On 29/08/2023 at 02:00, Ratlet said:

No, I picked it up in the recent sale and with inflation it'll never be cheaper than that.

Part of the reason I bought it was to see what a top end eyepiece was like and it is very much brilliant, but for where I am in my astro journey I don't need that level of quality to enjoy the views. 

I'm only a year into observing, but in another 5 years I might outgrow my Starguiders and replace them with morphs, but right now they are perfect for me.

Sensible approach I reckon.

An experienced member of this forum once posted that the time to change your eyepieces is when you try something else and see a difference that matters to you. 

Wise words I think.

[Space Hopper]

Back in 2019 i was looking for a high power set of binoviewing eyepieces and came across these 12mm 'Flatfields' from APM.

They were about to be discontinued, so i was lucky to secure a pair when i did and they'd been reduced to £79 each.

They are actually really nice ; despite 'only' having a 60º FOV, compared to my other APM 15mm Flatfields which are 65º.

I really like the twist up eyecups so you can dial in just the right amount of eye relief.

They don't actually get a whole lot of use as they give me quite a high power with my binoviewer set up : something like 212x magnification, which is too much most of the time.

But last night, conditions were ideal, and they performed very well indeed. They are nice eyepieces, like their 15mm cousins at a good price point. (And yes, they had a good clean soon after this photo was taken ! 😁)

 

[Stephenstargazer]

28 minutes ago, Space Hopper said:

Back in 2019 i was looking for a high power set of binoviewing eyepieces

Well said! I feel with binoviewers, given the prisms , merging of images (in the brain)  and various focal extenders often required that medium quality eye pieces are more than adequate. Useful given that a pair is needed and they may be less bulky. Recently bought a pair of Stella Lyra LER 55deg and very  happy with them in binoviewers🥸 (and in monocular use......🧐) . 

 

[Nik271]

I still use my red line Svbony eyepieces, even in my F7 refractor. They just live permanently in my diagonals instead of dust caps. Sure, there is more field curvature near the edge than in my F12 Mak  but to me the convenience of a 68 degree FoV eyepiece weighing under 100 grams which I can fit in my jeans pocket (and costs peanuts) is just hard to resist. They are excellent for grab and go action.

[F15Rules]

I do think that one area where cheap eyepieces can excel is in Binoviewers.

I've got 3 pairs of eyepieces for my Maxbright II's :-

- a 12 mm premium pair (Tak orthos, ) for high power use with Barlow/GPC at c 180Xor  more. Used for planets, moon and doubles observing.

-  a nice vintage Carton Japan 10.5mm pair with c 65 deg fov for medium power wide field views (the Orion Nebula M42 is superb in these)

- a cheap pair of Meade 4000 made in China 32mm Plossls with c 50 deg fov. These are incredibly sharp together, used natively for low power clusters etc.

All of the above are very comfortable in use, and work very well in the Maxbrights.

The last pair are probably worth about 15% of the Tak orthos, and yet they can deliver views that the Taks simply cannot.. and frankly, I cannot imagine that a pair of Tele Vue 32mm plossls could deliver a significantly better view than the humble Meades: - and the Meades don't have undercuts!!😂

So, very much "horses for courses" and "whatever works for you", I think.. 🤔 

Dave

P.S. I recall that some really skilled planetary observers such as MikeDnight have for years used cheap eyepiece pairs in Binoviewers, with amazing results!

Edited November 23, 2023 by F15Rules
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[SCANS]

Great clip and topic. I bought a few StarGuiders from FLO a few months after getting our first scope. I too found them to be great, especially considering the price (hmm, perhaps we shouldn't mention that to FLO 😉), and eventually acquired a complete set. More recently I added some Morpheus eyepieces to the collection (all but the 14mm). They're definitely better . . . not 4X better, but I got them during that sale in the summer so all good 👍

Still keeping the StarGuiders though. I don't use them that much anymore, but they're great for backup, travel (because they're so compact), and framing a view tighter when sketching per Ratlet's comment above.

[John]

1 hour ago, SCANS said:

..... They're definitely better . . . not 4X better......

That raises another interesting topic - cost v performance.

With so much optical equipment there is a marked difference when you move from the basic to the next level (eg: from stock eyepieces to, say, the Starguiders. The performance differences between those and the next step up are quite a lot less and when we start to consider the very top end stuff, the performance differences are subtle at most and sometimes only discernible under good to excellent conditions.

I'm not even sure what "4x better" would look like even if it were there 🤔

 

[Mr Spock]

I think once you get to the 'top end' eyepieces they are all similar in terms of detail resolution and technical ability. They will have different optical designs and so different optical characteristics, and that leads to subtleties in subjective performance. I say subjective performance because if you look at technical tests such as those here https://astro-talks.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1483#p41976 all the top end eyepieces have similar characteristics. You can also see how poor some 'lesser' eyepieces are which is seen in their subjective performance.

So, if you are looking through a Morpheus, Pentax XW, ES 82, APM UFF, TOE, Ethos, Delite, Delos, LVW, SLV, Ortho etc, etc, which is best? The answer is none of them - they are all capable of the same high end performance. What you will get is an individual's personal preference depending on the subtleties mentioned above. So whatever suits you is the best eyepiece  

[The60mmKid]

Buying high quality eyepieces gives you the peace of mind to start worrying about whether your diagonal is good enough.

[Mr Spock]

50 minutes ago, The60mmKid said:

whether your diagonal is good enough.

That's another topic worthy of discussion