The future of visual astronomy

[paulastro]

8 hours ago, Piero said:

I think the future of visual astronomy will be lunar and bright planets observing, due to the increasing light pollution and number of satellites.

As a society in general, I think we are heading to a "blade runner" landscape without replicants or flying cars (at least in the short / medium term). As we approach that, I also think that there is a good chance that we face some very brutal war setting us back to another middle age. It seems a cyclic pattern in history.. On a positive side, middle ages also means dark skies, although I suspect that visual astronomy won't be a priority then..

Well, that's cheered me up no end 😊.

[John]

2 minutes ago, paulastro said:

Well, that's cheered me up no end 😊.

Me too 😪

[Piero]

In that eventuality satellites will also be long gone, so we, well, our future generations, will experience really dark skies!

To remain with Rutger Hauer, it does not seem to me that the fellas in Salute of the Jugger (1989) were much interested in visual astronomy! 😂

[bosun21]

7 hours ago, RobertI said:

Sorry, I know this thread is covering a lot of different ground, but just illustrate the above I took a picture of the station last night, and compare below with what it looks like during the day. If planning laws can allow this to happen in a rural setting, then there is little hope. 🫤

 

 

There’s illuminating a car park sensibly and there’s your case of going completely over the top. Point one is that it doesn’t require the excessive amounts of lumens being used here, and secondly the lights should be downward projection types preventing all that wasted light being shot frivolously into the sky. This has obviously not been thought through with these points in mind during the initial design stages.

[Elp]

1 hour ago, bosun21 said:

This has obviously not been thought through with these points in mind during the initial design stages.

If you look at lighting product info they make these products for maximum illumination over large projection areas unless for specific use cases, otherwise we'd all be using spotlights.

[Elp]

2 hours ago, Piero said:

In that eventuality satellites will also be long gone, so we, well, our future generations, will experience really dark skies!

Just a random snapshot from sky safari, atm they've (you know which) have only launched a tenth of the planned amount:

[saac]

On 07/09/2023 at 19:58, tomato said:

As the OP, I certainly didn’t intend this to be a visual vs imaging thread. I personally have some concerns for the future of the hobby in all it’s forms when I look at the proportion of senior citizens who make up the attendance at the Astro shows, maybe that says more about the level of disposable income of the current generation of pensioners rather than anything else.
I still think future generations will be less inclined  to enjoy the pure visual astronomy experience, my evidence for this is that a lot of folks now seem to prefer taking video clips of a live event on their smartphones rather than experiencing it with their own eyes. The urge to “capture and post” seems strong these days.

I don't think AP is born from an "urge to capture and post". It's also not a modern thing!  Astronomy is a scientific activity at its heart, it is only natural then that an astronomer would attach a camera to end of a telescope to enhance its capability. For the same reason we don't turn our ears to the night sky and listen!   Development of radio astronomy followed the same logic - we needed a bigger boat to capture what our own eyes could not. When I'm looking to emission spectra I'm certainly not going to use 1940 techniques and sketch (Hubble like) the spectra, that would be totally absurd.  Today's professional astronomers will spend their entire careers without ever looking through an eyepiece just as many cell biologists now will rarely if ever use an optical microscope.  With my first telescope back in 1970 something, I remember trying to attach, using bodge tape, my camera to the telescope to capture the moon.  Thank heavens for the technical developments and availability of modern electronics since then. I do agree regarding the demographic representation though, does appear to be heavily male dominated, 40 ish onward, most likely due to disposable income and time. I wonder if there is a certain profile beyond that. 

Jim 

Edited September 8, 2023 by saac

[Elp]

It's not overly advertised though I don't think. If you don't specifically search on YT for similar subject matter for example you won't get recommended such videos. Had I have known it was possible to see deep sky from my back yard I would have started much sooner, but the point about dedicated funds do apply.

[scarp15]

Visual astronomy is, whilst there are of course thriving astronomical societies, a solitary pursuit. This may appeal more to older 'hobbyists', than demographically younger, whom are likely on the whole to be more gregarious and will seek activities that engage in more social interaction. 

Also as is often conveyed in topics in the Lounge, quite a few have emerged from other activities such as angling / fishing, which again can be a quite solitary as well as companionable pursuit and of course involves being stationary for hours outdoors. 

Perhaps it is more so the 'baby boomers' generation that embrace hobbies in the traditional sense, whereby many things are in our digital enhanced contemporary society, considered more so as a 'taster', rather than developing into a dedicated pursuit.    

Yet visual astronomy will continue, to in some context, attract, excite and feed the imagination, as it has since human curiosity first formed. The challenge is detrimental continual relaxation and deregulation of sensitive land to favour house builders and their like. As our relatively 'fledgling' status for increasing areas of dark sky parks emerges into public awareness and conservation measures aimed to protect dark sky as well as biodiversity against known hostile threats, the future could yet be desirable for enjoyment of what a true dark sky has to offer.

[Piero]

2 hours ago, Elp said:

Just a random snapshot from sky safari, atm they've (you know which) have only launched a tenth of the planned amount:

 

Looks like we will soon move into another hobby: "visual satellonomy"!

How is tracking going to work though?! 

[Richard]

On 07/09/2023 at 15:37, lawsio said:

Just on the light pollution issue, I'm a Civil Engineer specialising in Highways and many of the Local Authorities around the UK I work with are enforcing Dark Skies policies on new roads now, with roads only to being lit where it would pose a safety risk should they not be, for example crossing locations and certain junction types. It's part of a wider 'future ready/net zero' initiative to reduce carbon, ongoing costs, impact on wildlife, etc so I'd be lying if I said it was specifically to benefit ammeter astronomers, but hopefully in time the more of these policies get taken up, maybe some existing older street lights get taken down rather than replaced and skies might gradually start to darken again. Maybe.

I used to give a talk for CfDS in the late 2000s, and even to audiences of EHOs, who would enforce the then-new ‘light nuisance’ legislation, the facts that really caught their attention were around CO2 emissions and reductions in energy costs. The LP was a bit of a side issue. Still, if it does the job…

[skybadger]

I like the idea of 'ammeter asteonomers', seems like we're in the lab.

[StarryEyed]

Surely this is the dream.

Edited September 16, 2023 by StarryEyed

[Xilman]

On 20/08/2023 at 09:47, icpn said:

It is a shame that the commercial magazines just spend all their time pushing AP as I am aware that there are a lot of large visual telescopes still out there being used.

Pretty pictures sell magazines, whether you like it or not.

[DaveS]

I can't see any future for astronomy of any kind from this dank swamp of a country.

[Mark2022]

12 minutes ago, DaveS said:

I can't see any future for astronomy of any kind from this dank swamp of a country.

Don't worry. When the countryside is totally off limits to  us 'plebs', nobody will have the pleasure of any dark skies whatsoever (except those caused by geoengineering).