Help/advice

[Kenneth Spackman]

Hi. Can someone please give advice. I bought a skywatcher 127mm maksutov telescope ten days ago. I have been stargazing since a young age and have had many telescopes mostly refractors however, moved to a smaller property on retirement so sold the refractors and bought the maskotuv mostly because of space ( no pun intended) I have only used three times in the ten days of ownership. The first use I gave cool down time over an hour. Focusing was a nightmare especially when changing eyepieces. I had to refocuses for ever with each eyepiece. I contacted the seller who is a well known seller on the internet and was informed once in focus leave alone, but this cannot be done as doughnut displays and hey presto refocusing needed but obviously planet has disappeared from view. I have looked at all avenues finally looking at front lens and horrified that internally there is a lot of dust particles and a piece of swarf or something on the secondary mirror. I have requested a return under the 30 day return policy but the well known seler informs me that I cannot do this as the telescope has been used but that I need to try telescope again and maybe discuss the manufacturer two year warrenty. I am heart broken. I love star gazing and have researched about everything there is on a maskotuv telescope. I am so sorry now that I got rid of my refractor telescopes and payed over £300 for the maksutov telescope. Can anyone please give advice as to where I go from here. 

[moriniboy]

Hi, where are you based, perhaps you just need some tuition on this scope.

[Cosmic Geoff]

You WILL need to refocus on changing eyepieces, unless the eyepieces are parfocal.  There shouldn't be any visible dust or swarf inside, but this will not in practice affect the performance. (Just consider, there is a darn big secondary mirror blocking part of the aperture). 

Yes, the focus does require some winding, but not a whole lot. Maybe your other scopes had a different character of focus mechanism. 

You are entitled to a refund if the telescope is in fact faulty.  From your account, either the seller is being difficult, or he hopes that once you have got used to the telescope you will accept it as OK and stop complaining.

As a declaration of interest, I have a 127mm Maksutov, essentially the same instrument as yours, and I am extremely satisfied with it.

Who is 'a well known seller on the internet'?  Was this a specialist astro retailer, or some other large group known for piling it high and selling it cheap, along with bad customer support?

[Kenneth Spackman]

Hi

I am based in the borders of Scotland. 

[Ouroboros]

I would careful review the terms of the 30 days returns policy.  Does it say items can be returned for any reason whatsoever?  If so, and unless it specifically rules out  trying the scope out, I’d question the supplier’s assertion that the scope cannot  be returned.  Obviously the scope has to be returned in tip top condition.  If they do eventually accept its return I suggest photographing it all over unpacked and packed in case they try and say it wasn’t returned in good condition.

As for refocusing on changing eyepieces, I always found that to be necessary with all the scopes I have owned.  It should not look dusty inside though.

[Kenneth Spackman]

Hi cosmic Geoff. 

Thank you for replying. The seller is well known but it is not FLO Telescopes. I have done everything the seller has asked of me regarding the mak even sent photos. I have a good knowledge of using the mak but confess research only. Daytime use focusing is similar especially when I go up to a more power eyepiece. I get the doughnut and having to refocus from scratch and I mean from scratch. No minute turning of the focuser knob but lots of turns and turns before finally reaching focus. So trying to do this at night when perfectly focused on venus at 150x and then either take  it up to 200/250x is an utter nightmare hence I am sitting in tonight researching again and again of where I am going wrong. I have excluded time for cooling the mak to cleaning my eyepieces and not being heavy handed fine tuning focus and weather conditions . The only conclusion is problematic mak. 

[moriniboy]

Lets face it as its a new scope there should not be any dust or swarf - period.

The seller should take this scope back.

Did you by any chance pay by PayPal, if you have I would open a case for its return?

Edited June 13, 2023 by moriniboy

[M40]

Hello Kenneth and welcome to the site, hopefully between us we can help.

I have the big brother of your telescope and yes you will have to refocus each time you change eyepieces. As for focus adjustment, on mine I have about 30 turns end to end but I wouldn't expect to use even half of that when switching eyepieces. 

One of the things I did to help speed up refocusing was to get a zoom eyepiece which is now my goto eyepiece but it's not to everyones taste.

With regard to dust/swarf on the secondary, mine is quite clean so I would like to think that your supplier will help in some way with that. Any chance of a picture as we will soon say if it's at an acceptable level or not.

All the best.

[Kenneth Spackman]

Hi M40

Very greatful for your reply. I have considered zoom eyepiece and might be my next move. I don't mind refocusing as it is part and parcel of using a telescope which I enjoy greatly but considering how fine the focuser is on the mak and I have very light and steady hands it seems forever to focus. It might be me as I have used refractor telescopes most of my life and I am totally aware now of the massive difference in mak focusing. I will try and get a photo of the dust particles on the inside of front lens posted her. If successful the dust is not on the outside. 

[Elp]

You haven't mentioned what eyepieces you're using, it's expected to refocus when changing them, especially if they're different types or manufacturers, but only the minutest refocus, this has been the case with all types of scopes I've used (refractor, Newtonian, SCT). Having to refocus from scratch sounds wrong, even if the next eyepiece shows a doughnut, it should only need a minor adjustment of the focuser. If you can, maybe record video through an eyepiece and also when you're focusing to show the seller the issue.

[Kenneth Spackman]

Thank you Elp for your reply.i use several different types from svbony, plossels and tnb. I agree that it should be just a fine tune from one eyepiece to another. I will try to vidio and send to seller as not thought about this. Thanks. 

[Elp]

Also as others have mentioned, if the scope was received differently than as described at sale you are more than within your right to make a case to the seller supporting your findings. I suspect you are referring to a reseller rather than a shop or private sale.

[Second Time Around]

If you bought the scope online you have the legal right to change your mind within 14 days of delivery under the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013.  This is regardless of whether the item is faulty or not.

Full details are given at https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/i-want-to-return-something-bought-online-aqsD32m9r5P3

[Kenneth Spackman]

The mak was bought brand new from a well known seller/shop advertised on Internet. I will again contact the shop to request a full refund or exchange. 

Thank you all for your advice and support. It's nice to know I am not a lone amature astromoner. 

[Cosmic Geoff]

I had a look through the front of my 127mm Mak (now several years old) under a strong light this morning, and could see white specks of dust apparently on the large (main) mirror.  These clearly do not affect the operation and I do not intend to do anything about it.  I am reminded of some previous threads in which newbies are advised not to shine a strong light into their telescope lest it reveal anxiety-inducing dust that does not affect the telescope operation.

13 hours ago, Kenneth Spackman said:

there is a lot of dust particles and a piece of swarf or something on the secondary mirror.

The secondary mirror surface consists of an aluminised area in the middle of the corrector lens and cannot be seen by the user.

Be careful what you ask for when requesting a refund or exchange.  As noted above, there may be a limited period for a no-fault return, and if you claim there is a fault, the seller may dispute this or let you wait a few months while it is sent back to China for examination. Do you want an exchange Mak with the same focus mechanism that you clearly don't like?

BTW, some owners fit refractor-style focus assemblies to the back of their SCTs or IIRC, their Maks.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Cosmic Geoff

[Kenneth Spackman]

Hi all

Just to let you all know we're I am up to. 

The issues with the mak continues from bad to worse. 

 dust issues still inside mak and focusing still an issues which has gotten worse. Severe back focus problems. 

Severe vignetting and getting worse making viewing planets extremely difficult. I have tried all 14 of my eye pieces and all the same. Set up in daylight this morning and problems remain. 

Used the mak again last night for saturn and jupiter but gave up because of the problems as above so set up my 90mm skywatcher evostar refractor bought from FLO and had great views. 

Contacted the seller again and got fobed off. I persevered with emails but last email from seller to me was: it may need to go to manufacture or I

( me) could sell it. Yet again no offer of refund or replacement even though I made the seller aware of problems the next day  when I took delivery . A member here asked me what shop did I buy the mak from but I did not give the name. The only reason I did not buy the scope from FLO initially is flo did not have it in stock. I wished I had waited. The shop I bought it from is Rother Valley Optics. Buyers beware from buying from them they don't care or give a dam. 

I have contacted skywatcher direct and in the process of contacting trading standards. The mak is now back in its box possibly for good. 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Kenneth Spackman

[DirkSteele]

Assuming you paid by credit card, notify the provider immediately, inform them it appears to be faulty and the seller is not abiding by distance selling regulations. They may refund if t d retailer continues to be difficult.

[Elp]

I'm surprised as RVO are usually okay. In such instance have they not offered to have the scope back so they can investigate?

[Louis D]

This is a brand new scope?  You might want to contact your credit card company (if you paid using one) to file for a chargeback based on the seller selling faulty goods and refusing returns.

[Kenneth Spackman]

Hi Elp 

No they haven't requested scope back which is shocking. I reported a problem to them after first use and it steadily got worse so contacted them again and requested scope be returned but they refused saying that the scope is now used and anything under their 30 day returns policy must not be used. I have been in contact with them again today as scope now deteriorating to the extent it cannot be used but not getting anywhere. I have kept all the email correspondence even todays when they advised me to sell it. 

[Elp]

Their terms do state that items need to be unused and unopened (but how would you know it's not working without trying it I wonder?). Their terms also state if a fault occurs within the 2 year warranty period from purchase they will repair or replace at their discretion. The returns process states a returns form must be obtained from them and included with the returned item(s) among other stipulations. So, what they should have done is offer for you to return it for them to check it (which they may have mentioned as part of the warranty), if the scope is as bad as you say it is, I'd doubt they'd wait for the manufacturer to assess it. Might be an idea to return it to them on this warranty basis, at least something will be done about it. I would also record in unbroken video (ie one whole uncut video) if possible the errors, if you're using common items and have another scope to use showing said common items working this will be further evidence it's nothing to do with the equipment you already own or your personal skill level.

I'm sure a resolution will be reached.

[Second Time Around]

It seems to me that the question is whether the item is faulty or not.  This may help.

What to do if the item is faulty:

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product-aTTEK2g0YuEy

Of course you can't tell if it's faulty without using it.  So if the item is indeed faulty RVO can't fall back on their terms and conditions as they're superceded by consumer law.

To be fair to RVO, many retailers are unaware of this.  This was a problem I had in my career as a business consultant.

 

[StevieDvd]

If you paid by credit card you have extra options.  You can contact the card company and ask to raise a case, they can intervene to resolve or refund you. This is using the UK joint & several liability laws that you may have heard Martin Lewis (MoneySavingExpert) mention.

I am surprised that you are having issues with RVO  have bought from them many times and they have been very helpful when I've made purchases or just phoned for advice.

[Kenneth Spackman]

Hi All

Just to let you all know we're I am up to. 

The issues with the mak continues from bad to worse. 

 dust issues still inside mak and focusing still an issues which has gotten worse. Severe back focus problems. 

Severe vignetting and getting worse making viewing planets extremely difficult. I have tried all 14 of my eye pieces and all the same. Set up in daylight this morning and problems remain. 

Used the mak again last night for saturn and jupiter but gave up because of the problems as above so set up my 90mm skywatcher evostar refractor bought from FLO and had great views. 

Contacted the seller again and got fobed off. I persevered with emails but last email from seller to me was: it may need to go to manufacture or I

( me) could sell it. Yet again no offer of refund or replacement even though I made the seller aware of problems the next day  when I took delivery . A member here asked me what shop did I buy the mak from but I did not give the name. The only reason I did not buy the scope from FLO initially is flo did not have it in stock. I wished I had waited. The shop I bought it from is Rother Valley Optics. Buyers beware from buying from them they don't care or give a dam. 

I have contacted skywatcher direct and in the process of contacting trading standards. The mak is now back in its box possibly for good. 

 

[Oddsocks]

Hi Kenneth.

I won't comment on the legal side of the issue, the previous respondents have covered that.

I'm not a visual observer so much these days, retinal damage and severe astigmatism have put paid to that aspect of the hobby, but going back to the nineteen seventies when I had a table-top Mak I remember the re-focussing issue when swapping eyepieces very well as that Mak had something like fifty turns of the focuser end-to-end, but the solution to that problem costs nothing.

If you add par-focaling rings to your eyepiece barrels then you can interchange eyepieces whenever you want to and only need tiny adjustments to the focus setting. This was something I had to do as I had a wide assortment of eyepieces from different manufacturers and none of them were par-focal natively.

Par-focal rings are simply spacer rings that are slid over the barrel of the eyepiece so that it can't slide all the way into the diagonal stop.

A par-focal ring adapts each individual eyepiece focal position so that they all match roughly and then you just need a slight adjustment of the main focuser to fine tune any remaining de-focus.

You can buy ready made adjustable distance or fixed distance par-focal rings for 1-1/4" and 2" eyepieces or just make your own, I used to make mine by cutting rings from plastic milk bottles and stacking enough on each eyepiece barrel to make the correct par-focal distance.

The only problem with par-focal rings was that a few of the eyepieces were so far away from each other in focal position that they were barely held by the diagonal clamp once the par-focal rings were fitted, but most of the eyepieces were fine.

Whatever the eventual outcome of your issue with the Mak and whatever you end up with as a repair or replacement have a look at making your own par-focal rings for your eyepiece collection to minimise the time you need to refocus after swapping eyepieces.

HTH

William.