Celestron’s starsense - could it be TOO good?

[bosun21]

24 minutes ago, PeterStudz said:

I’ve no doubt that Starsense is superior to PS Align Pro but then it should be as PS Align costs peanuts - £2.99. I’ve used PS Align Pro for 14 months and it has never failed to find a target, so it’s hard to justify getting anything else. Although if someone gifted me a Starsense unit I’d happily take it off their hands

I also use PS Align to accurately find planets during the day. Recently Venus but Jupiter, Saturn and Mars too. 

 

I agree with you. If I had known that PS Align pro had this facility I would have probably stuck with that. I did look at it beforehand purely for Polaris positioning whilst  polar aligning but didn’t see this facility at the time. We live and learn.

Edited May 28, 2023 by bosun21

[RobertI]

28 minutes ago, PeterStudz said:

I’ve no doubt that Starsense is superior to PS Align Pro but then it should be as PS Align costs peanuts - £2.99. I’ve used PS Align Pro for 14 months and it has never failed to find a target, so it’s hard to justify getting anything else. Although if someone gifted me a Starsense unit I’d happily take it off their hands

I also use PS Align to accurately find planets during the day. Recently Venus but Jupiter, Saturn and Mars too. 

 

I also have PS Align Pro and was just going to start using it for push to before I was seduced by Starsense. Just out of interest, do you use the ‘hop from nearest star’ feature or do you find it works accurately without? 

[Paz]

This is interesting, could you use star sense to find planets in the day time?

[RobertI]

1 hour ago, Paz said:

This is interesting, could you use star sense to find planets in the day time?

Sadly I don’t think so Paz, when you try and use the Starsense app during the day, it says “It’s daytime, please use Starsense at night!”. Polite though. 🙂

[Paz]

 

9 hours ago, RobertI said:

Sadly I don’t think so Paz, when you try and use the Starsense app during the day, it says “It’s daytime, please use Starsense at night!”. Polite though. 🙂

That's a shame, I agree with the comments that it would be good if they sold a stand alone version you could use on any scope, and one that you could use in the day would be good.

I guess they may be thinking about it or they may have decided they will earn more money by only selling it with their scopes.

I wonder if there's any way to fool the electronics into working in the day. I recall in the past companies would make fuel injection chips impossible to tune so other companies then made chips to intercept the sensor inputs and trick the original chip into doing different fuel mappings. I wonder if that kind of trickery is possible in this case!?

Edited May 29, 2023 by Paz

[markse68]

How could it work during the day if it needs to see stars to work?

Mark

[Tomatobro]

There is a Beta testing version of a push too aid now available for download from Sharpcap.

You enter the RA and DEC numbers of the item of interest, point the scope to roughly the right part of the sky, plate solve and Sharpcap reports where the scope is pointing and what needs to be done to correct the position ie. left 0.9 degrees and down 1.7 degress.

Perfect for Star Adventurers

 SharpCap 4.1.10652

Edited May 29, 2023 by Tomatobro
update

[PeterStudz]

18 hours ago, RobertI said:

I also have PS Align Pro and was just going to start using it for push to before I was seduced by Starsense. Just out of interest, do you use the ‘hop from nearest star’ feature or do you find it works accurately without? 

I find it works accurately without. ie I almost always use PushTo. 

Generally if I sync on something that’s not too far away from the target it’ll have the target within my 9x50 RACI. Eg I was observing the sun in white light this morning. Then, at about 1pm, I took a look at Venus. To do this I did a sync on the Sun then a PushTo Venus. This was all that was needed to have Venus well within my RACI. I’ve really enjoyed observing Venus during daylight and have been watching its phase change since February. A first for me. Venus at night is virtually impossible from my back garden as by then it’s behind trees and houses. 

To get a target within a low power eyepiece - for me that’s 25mm which on my 200p Dob gives x48 - I generally need to sync on 3 stars/objects to guarantee success. However, often I’m lazy and will align & sync as I go along. Eg earlier in the year when observing the Orion Nebula. Then decided to look at the Beehive. Before moving I synced on the Orion Nebula, then (as it was easy and not far off) synced on Betelgeuse. PushTo the Beehive had it in my 25mm eyepiece. After looking at the Beehive I synced on it and did a PushTo M81, which again had M81 within my 25mm. A nudge and I had m81 & M82 in the save FOV. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by PeterStudz

[RobertI]

2 hours ago, PeterStudz said:

After looking at the Beehive I synced on it and did a PushTo M81, which again had M81 within my 25mm.

Thanks for the details, sounds like it works pretty well. M44 and M81 are about 50 degrees apart so that’s pretty good accuracy across a fairly big slew. I’m guessing that the larger the slew the less accurate it becomes without re-synching to something. Just curious to understand how this all works. As the Starsense app effectively auto re-synchs itself every time you slew to something, no manual re-synching is required, but Starsense does have its limitations (eg, bright moon) and obviously can’t be used during the day. Its interesting to understand the difference between the two approaches though - I might try both apps side by side one day as an experiment. 

[RobertI]

3 hours ago, Tomatobro said:

There is a Beta testing version of a push too aid now available for download from Sharpcap.

You enter the RA and DEC numbers of the item of interest, point the scope to roughly the right part of the sky, plate solve and Sharpcap reports where the scope is pointing and what needs to be done to correct the position ie. left 0.9 degrees and down 1.7 degress.

Perfect for Star Adventurers

 SharpCap 4.1.10652

Another interesting approach. Presumably this wouldn’t be available on iOS or Android? 

[Tomatobro]

32 minutes ago, RobertI said:

be available on iOS or Android?

Windows only as far as I know. Sharpcap is £12 a year for a pro license

[tomato]

On 27/05/2023 at 10:57, RobertI said:

Something to note - you have to enter your email address when entering the code -I don’t know if the  code gets tied to the email address somehow (perhaps the first time you enter it?), or whether you can enter any email address, so you might end up having to use the email address of the original purchaser. Might be worth checking with them. 

Fortunately my used StarSense Explorer on eBay was being sold by a vendor just down the road from me so I paid them a visit this morning to check the App was still functioning. All good, worked with my email address and the supplied code so I’m now the proud owner of this scope. I’ll try it out tonight and if it is as good as folks say, will move the StarSense holder to my SW Dob and my youngest granddaughter will be getting an early birthday present of the 80 mm achromatic. I’ll put a Telrad on it so I’m afraid I will need to show her how to find objects the hard way.☺️

[bosun21]

2 hours ago, RobertI said:

but Starsense does have its limitations (eg, bright moon)

I have found that the Starsense works fine with  a full moon in the sky (bortle 6 at home). It only starts to struggle plate solving when really close to the lunar disc itself. If trying to observe a target close to a bright moon the Starsense will still direct you to the target location, however may struggle with the plate solving for the final fine adjustments to centre the target.

[RobertI]

26 minutes ago, tomato said:

Fortunately my used StarSense Explorer on eBay was being sold by a vendor just down the road from me so I paid them a visit this morning to check the App was still functioning. All good, worked with my email address and the supplied code so I’m now the proud owner of this scope. I’ll try it out tonight and if it is as good as folks say, will move the StarSense holder to my SW Dob and my youngest granddaughter will be getting an early birthday present of the 80 mm achromatic. I’ll put a Telrad on it so I’m afraid I will need to show her how to find objects the hard way.☺️

Excellent, look forward to hearing what you think. As far as the scope itself goes, I was actually quite impressed at the f10 70mm achro once a decent but lightweight eyepiece was added  - I didn’t give it a compete test, but I saw some pretty challenging stuff with it. The real weakness is the mount as always, but should be a great intro for your granddaughter, and of course, it looks like a real telescope should look! 

[PeterStudz]

3 hours ago, RobertI said:

Thanks for the details, sounds like it works pretty well. M44 and M81 are about 50 degrees apart so that’s pretty good accuracy across a fairly big slew. I’m guessing that the larger the slew the less accurate it becomes without re-synching to something. Just curious to understand how this all works. As the Starsense app effectively auto re-synchs itself every time you slew to something, no manual re-synching is required, but Starsense does have its limitations (eg, bright moon) and obviously can’t be used during the day. Its interesting to understand the difference between the two approaches though - I might try both apps side by side one day as an experiment. 

Yes, the larger the slew then the less accurate it becomes without syncing to something. Although if I spent a lot of time on a target then accuracy will also decrease. I’ve learnt, if possible, to sync as I go along. Very occasionally, I think it’s only happened to me twice in a year, it was really inaccurate from the start. I found switching the phone on/off sorted that! 

Trying both apps side by side would be interesting. I don’t think that anyone has done that.

[tomato]

Tried it out under a bright moon last night, the StarSense function is brilliant, platesolve is fast and reliable except when close to the moon, the user interface is first class, very intuitive and informative. I suppose newcomers might be disappointed with the views through the scope compared to the pictures displayed on the App, but that’s an inherent issue, nothing to do with StarSense.

The ability to lift the scope and place it somewhere more convenient without any impact on the push to functionality is a revelation, perfect for outreach events.

The tripod is light and a bit rickety, but I was impressed with the views through the 80mm Achro, given the poor observing conditions.

It doesn’t seem right to take the StarSense unit off the scope before giving it to my granddaughter , the ability to find objects easily with the phone app is what makes it so good as a starter scope.

[tomato]

The Starsense unit has been transferred to the 16" SW Flextube Dob, works fine on there even though it is mounted slightly to one side of the vertical axis of the OTA.

Now looking at options to not disappoint my grand daughter when I hand over the Celestron 80mm Achro...

[markse68]

13 minutes ago, tomato said:

The Starsense unit has been transferred to the 16" SW Flextube Dob, works fine on there even though it is mounted slightly to one side of the vertical axis of the OTA.

Now looking at options to not disappoint my grand daughter when I hand over the Celestron 80mm Achro...

if you diy a phone mount for your dob then you should both be able to use it- you should have a few uses of the activation code. Several of us have diy’d mounts:

Mark

[tomato]

Thanks for the link, now looking at a DIY second unit to take a phone.

[RobertI]

16 minutes ago, tomato said:

Thanks for the link, now looking at a DIY second unit to take a phone.

I quite like the look of the solution involving a telrad riser with cut down diagonal. Might give it a go. 

[sojourneyer]

On 27/05/2023 at 02:57, RobertI said:

Something to note - you have to enter your email address when entering the code -I don’t know if the  code gets tied to the email address somehow (perhaps the first time you enter it?), or whether you can enter any email address, so you might end up having to use the email address of the original purchaser. Might be worth checking with them. 

You can enter the same email address on five different phones or a different email address on five different phones. The only catch is that you  can use five codes in total. The real limiter to this when you enter the Starsense code.

[Timbo1001]

On 27/05/2023 at 00:55, RobertI said:

I just bought myself a Celestron Starsense Explorer 70LT - basically a cheap achro refractor with an attachment for your mobile phone, allowing you to use Celestron’s Starsense technology via an app on your phone to find objects. I’ve just been out for a couple of hours, and I’ll cut to the chase - it’s just brilliant. It made finding objects so easy, that I almost felt I was cheating. Suffice it to say that with my cheap 70mm achro made mostly of plastic, within the space of a few minutes I had found and observed globulars M13 and M3, galaxies M81, M82, planetaries NGC6543 (the Cats Eye nebula) and NGC6826 (the Blinking Planetary), the Eastern Veil (kind of), and open cluster M39. Each time I searched, Starsense did its thing, guiding me to the object with helpful arrows, taking an image to platesolve when it senses the telescope has stopped moving, and guiding me the final few minutes of arc the object - every single time the object was clearly in the field of view of a 66 degree 20mm eyepiece at 35x magnification, giving a FOV of 1.9 degrees. I should add that there was a bright moon in the sky, but I kept well away and everything worked fine. If I wanted to move around the garden to get a better view, no problem, Starsense was unaffected - this was weird for someone who has been used to not touching a tripod once a mount is aligned. 

As for the scope itself, the mount is very wobbly and the eyepieces leave a lot to be desired, but when I added a decent-ish WO 20mm eyepiece (a lightweight eyepiece was needed and this fitted the bill) the views improved dramatically and the scope produced some really nice views. I think the correct image diagonal also helped to make the experience seem easy. There are a number of other scopes, including newts and SCTs, but they all seem to live on wobbly mounts and tripods which is a shame. The exceptions are the 8” and 10” dobs which look like perfect companions for starsense. 

Definitely a success and I will be looking at how to convert this for use on my other scopes. 👍

What phone are you using because I'm having issues with my supposedly compatible Samsung A40? Cheers.

[RobertI]

14 hours ago, Timbo1001 said:

What phone are you using because I'm having issues with my supposedly compatible Samsung A40? Cheers.

It’s an iPhone 12, and seems to be working, ok at the moment, although it seemed to have trouble recognising any stars in the square of Pegasus the other day, everywhere else was fine 

[powerlord]

It's very poor thinking and marketing by celestron. It's no more than an app that you set your FL at the end of the day. Anyone could make a mount. If they sold it either as an app for a fiver or with a mount for 20 quid no only would it sell by the bucketload, but they'd have a solid marketing platform in the app to sell to those users. But imho there thinking is still very much stuck in the 1980s - a bit like Skywatcher.."computerized mounts" etc.. I'm surprised they don't advertise they are 'solid state' with transisters not valves... compare that approach to tech vs zwo. night and day.

I am suprised there are not more apps that do it though, I mean it's basic stuff - assuming a mount pointing phone same direction as scope (no need to get fancy with mirrors), its just regular IMU sensors to get rough position aka sky safari, etc, etc followed by pics and plate solving to home in. It's just a small market I suppose - compared to designing another 'collect the coins and buy more' game to rob children of cash.

stu

[StevieDvd]

Would I have preferred to buy the app & mount alone? Yes, of course and I too would like it to have been £25 for both, and I guess other scope manufacturers would like as well.

But let's be honest here, the app is written for Celestron by Simulation Curriculum Corp and includes a star catalog, plate-solvings and other features from their Sky Safari app which alone sell for £20 plus and don't need a phone mount.

I'm sure Celestron have looked at the options for the Starsense Explorer mount/app and have decided that selling as part of a product pack gives them a better return.  They have a similar phone holder mount that can get sales figures on (that sells for around £50) which does not include an app. Similar comments have been made at CN forum and sent to Celestron who rejected the sale of stand alone units being viable for their business model.

However, what I really wanted to post was that I think I found an issue and a solution for it that might help others.

I was using the Starsense without a problem until I zoomed in on an area and set a new target. The unit kept trying to find the position and seemed to be in a loop. As platesolving uses settings like fov I realised that a zoomed in image might not plate-solve. I zoomed out a bit and the plate-solve worked and the position was found and directions displayed on screen.