To make my eq5 go-to an autoguide

[Marian]

Hello everyone. 
I have this tripod https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/Accessories/Mounts/BRESSER-Messier-EXOS-2-EQ-GoTo-Mount.html , it’s been working just fine, but I’d like it to make it work for longer exposures. I mounted the Svbony 80ed telescope on it.
Now, as far as autoguide, I am a total noob. I know, I need a guide scope with a guide camera. But I’d like it to work as painlessly as possible for me to make effort in learning new skills in astrophotography without being frustrated in buying stuff I don’t know. The mount features ST-4 compatible autoguiding input. If there is someone so kind to suggest what to buy and what software I’ll need to get and learn. 
I’ll be happy to answer any questions. I hope, my inquiry is not too bold.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Marian

[alacant]

Hi

Assuming you have a suitable computer.

Hardware:

Either convert your existing guide telescope (looks familiar but I'd rather not guess) to accept a guide camera or, perhaps better:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EHmNCD7

with

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EzkPFXF

This includes all the necessary cables. Fix the guide telescope rigidly across the top of the rings. Use a separate bar if necessary, but make it as immovable as possible.

Software:

https://openphdguiding.org/downloads/

Whilst you're waiting for delivery, read ALL of the excellent PHD2 software manual.

Good luck and HTH

[Marian]

Thank you, this is exactly what I was hoping for. 

[rickwayne]

And by "rigidly", alacant means "you would not believe how rigidly". Flexure of only a few microns at the end of the guidescope translates into significant guiding errors. The "finder shoe" sort of mount that you have is notoriously bad for this -- the front of the mount holds the scope in a flexible ring so that it can move when the adjustment screws in back are, well, adjusted.

I reiterate that we are talking about fractions of an arcsecond here. Please pardon the USA units of currency and measurement, but a US dime held up a mile away covers about an arcsecond. We are concerned with deflections of maybe two-tenths of that!

One hack you might use, if you're mechanically handy, is to drill and tap three holes around the circumference of the front of the finder shoe tube, and put in your own jackscrews (any kind of bolt will be fine). Or if there's enough room for a flat nut between the inside of the tube and the scope, just a plain hole will do.

Better would be to mount some sort of bar spanning the tops of your scope rings, and two suitably-sized scope rings for the guidescope on the bar. That is guaranteed rigid.

You can also just try it out and see what you get. If your guiding graph looks great but the stars in your actual image are trailed or egg-shaped, that's a sign of differential flexure. So if you don't get that, meh, what me worry, eh?

Edited February 8, 2023 by rickwayne

[Marian]

great. That sounds like I need to pour some concrete around my scope :)) 

Like I said, I know nothing about guiding. But I'll do my very best.

Thank you

[malc-c]

If you don't want to go down the route of using a PC to run the guiding software and control of he mount then google "Autogider" (without the quotes) - They are not cheap, but provide a self contained system to keep the scope tracking the guidestar

Synguider for example is one suitable for skywatcher mounts.  You would need to obtain the specs of your mount to ensure it uses the same gearing ratios as the EQ5 otherwise it would be a waste of money.  The mount looks like an EQ5 but the specs state it uses servo motors with encoders, the EQ5 goto uses stepper motors, however the worm gear ratio is the same 144 as an EQ5 so assuming the firmware uses the same communications protocol then it should work.   Personally using a standard guide camera with a guidescope and a PC gives you more options.  The manufacture offers a PC cable and adapter along with ASCOM compliant driver so it should be possible to use applications such as PHD2 to handle the guiding 

 

[Marian]

Oh wow,  words (PHD2, ASCOM) that I don't know. I have so much to learn and the summer is coming. (Summer in southern Finland = 20 hours of daylight = no dark skies for a long time) and I'd like to get this to work before the snow melts. (it reflects so much light the light pollution made by nearby cities, that I can't really make decent photos in this area). 

But thank you for this option, I'll keep it in y mind. I'll use my pc for now and will look into that little later. 

[2 Scoops]

I have an EXOS 2 mount and right now I'm waiting for the postman to deliver me an EQMOD cable and I believe, update software for the hand controller so that I can guide. 

The cable is coming from Bresser.uk. 

I'd give you a link but it's a bit awkward right now as I'm on a train but Bresser.uk is easily found and you can get what is presumably the correct cable (to connect to a pc) from the website. I think it was £42.

You should also be able to get the cable from Bresser.de

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by 2 Scoops

[Marian]

Oh well, this only brings more questions. How do you update the software for the controller. 

https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/BRESSER-Computer-Cable-for-Remote-Control-of-MCX-Goto-Telescopes-and-EXOS-II-EQ-Goto-Mounts.html this is what I found

[malc-c]

11 hours ago, Marian said:

Oh well, this only brings more questions. How do you update the software for the controller. 

https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/BRESSER-Computer-Cable-for-Remote-Control-of-MCX-Goto-Telescopes-and-EXOS-II-EQ-Goto-Mounts.html this is what I found

Bresser will have provided an application that runs on a PC and with the lead connected between PC and handset and powered up should detect the "com port" that the USB/Serial adapter uses and then you select the firmware file and upload it through the application, much the same way as Skywatcher and Celestron handsets and motorboards are updated / flashed.  It seems that all the parts and software is provided in the package from Bresser

[Marian]

so, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001831167979.html?srcSns=sns_WhatsApp&spreadType=socialShare&bizType=ProductDetail&social_params=60264354595&aff_fcid=bbf8f632933d438ba7560677ceaa59d0-1676118610282-09299-_EzkPFXF&tt=MG&aff_fsk=_EzkPFXF&aff_platform=default&sk=_EzkPFXF&aff_trace_key=bbf8f632933d438ba7560677ceaa59d0-1676118610282-09299-_EzkPFXF&shareId=60264354595&businessType=ProductDetail&platform=AE&terminal_id=a93eebcf6d2b4ed28be1594e709ed496&afSmartRedirect=y

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004775675185.html?srcSns=sns_WhatsApp&spreadType=socialShare&bizType=ProductDetail&social_params=60266732724&aff_fcid=240117c8327e48b7908e7e30807e9bca-1676118653658-05378-_EHmNCD7&tt=MG&aff_fsk=_EHmNCD7&aff_platform=default&sk=_EHmNCD7&aff_trace_key=240117c8327e48b7908e7e30807e9bca-1676118653658-05378-_EHmNCD7&shareId=60266732724&businessType=ProductDetail&platform=AE&terminal_id=a93eebcf6d2b4ed28be1594e709ed496&afSmartRedirect=y

are on it's way. Should be here by March 11th.

https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/BRESSER-Computer-Cable-for-Remote-Control-of-MCX-Goto-Telescopes-and-EXOS-II-EQ-Goto-Mounts.html this is what I am ordering right now.

I took my set out yesterday, it was freezing and windy. One of my servos seem to be off, kinda too slow. I tried to take it odd to check the gears , but the screws were too tight and of course I managed to strip them :(( 

 

[2 Scoops]

My cable arrived today, a couple of cables actually and a small cd for updating the hand controller.

I won't be able to do anything for another week though as I am currently in the UK and the.mount is in Turkey where I live. 

I've been fettling the mount recently in anticipation of getting the cable. It has either been put together badly or a previous owner has been playing about. The RA axis worm gear bearings were overtightened and there was a lot of grease which had compacted and wasn't lubricating anything. That has all been replaced with new graphite grease and things are moving a lot better. Hopefully, the cable kit will allow for some decent guiding. Fingers crossed.

[Marian]

Sounds great. Let me know how the update went and how easy/difficult is the connection with your pc.

[2 Scoops]

I will do Marian but It won't be for around 10 days or so.

[Marian]

👍

[Marian]

On 09/02/2023 at 03:30, malc-c said:

If you don't want to go down the route of using a PC to run the guiding software and control of he mount then google "Autogider" (without the quotes) - They are not cheap, but provide a self contained system to keep the scope tracking the guidestar

Synguider for example is one suitable for skywatcher mounts.  You would need to obtain the specs of your mount to ensure it uses the same gearing ratios as the EQ5 otherwise it would be a waste of money.  The mount looks like an EQ5 but the specs state it uses servo motors with encoders, the EQ5 goto uses stepper motors, however the worm gear ratio is the same 144 as an EQ5 so assuming the firmware uses the same communications protocol then it should work.   Personally using a standard guide camera with a guidescope and a PC gives you more options.  The manufacture offers a PC cable and adapter along with ASCOM compliant driver so it should be possible to use applications such as PHD2 to handle the guiding 

 

So,

I looked into it a little ( a lot actually) and this left me frustrated. In order to get this mount to autoguide, I had to update the firmware. Got my cable from Bresser and after some fight, I got that done. However, the driver that came with it, that should work with the ASCOM, doesn't work. I googled and googled but nothing helped. The readme file that came with the driver makes it even more confusing for me.  

[malc-c]

To me (and no expert) that seems to be related to those who are developing and writing drivers rather than the "end user".  I was not able to locate a driver for the serial to USB cable in the support / download page, however chances are it uses either FTDI or more probably the Prolific 2303 driver which was dropped from Windows when MS developed windows 10 (Prolific didn't want to sign up to the licencing agreement)

Chances are you get a warning under device manager against the COM port assigned to the adapter / cable.  Right click on it and select properties. Click the details tab and then select Hardware ID from the "property" drop down list.  Copy the first line that appears in the value box, and then past that into google.  It should then bring up links to the driver for that chipset.   Download and install the driver which hopefully go smoothly and resolve the issue

[alacant]

1 hour ago, Marian said:

In order to get this mount to autoguide, I had to update the firmware. Got my cable from Bresser...

Hi

I'm not sure why you have chosen this method, although almost certainly my not reading the thread properly!

To begin guiding (now/tonight!), why not simply use the autoguide port on the mount? Both the cables you need are included with the camera I recommended.

Do the pulse stuff software later? Or maybe as many still do/prefer even, stick with the on camera connection.

Cheers.

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by alacant

[Marian]

That was the first I checked.I changed the port from COM1 to COM3 in order to get the firmware to upload to the handheld. The port does’t trigger any warning. 
I copy pasted the readme of the driver though. It says, it’s a mere skeleton and for sure I don’t have enough knowledge to code in C to build it up. I kinda suspect that to be the problem.

[Marian]

3 hours ago, alacant said:

Hi

I'm not sure why you have chosen this method, although almost certainly my not reading the thread properly!

To begin guiding now, why not simply use the autoguide port on the mount? The cables you need are included with the camera I recommended, which AFAICT, you will now have. Do the pulse stuff later maybe.

Cheers.

 

There is a simple reason, why I went for this first. The cable to update the firmware came today, while the cam and the guide scope are still on their way. (the cable came from Germany, the rest from China)  I wanted to get the PHD2 to work before the scope and the cam arrive to start learning. And ASCOM via the handheld was the only way to try to connect my mount to PHD2 without the guide cam. 

I am all but a patient guy and I always try to be as fast and effective as possible. It doesn't always work out and this is a good example of me doing what I do. (I am actually pretty close to buying a new mount, that much frustration this one brought today).

Last time I took my set out I bumped into a servo motor problem, also my 3 star alignment  was somehow very off, even though the polar alignment was precise . I hoped, the PHD2 might give me ideas, is  there something seriously wrong with the mount.

But yeah, I'll wait for the rest to arrive and then I'll try to make it work as you've suggested. I'll actually have to find a rail long enough to fasten it into both rings together as rigidly as possible. All I have are the short ones. This is actually harder, than I thought. Do I have to wait for the scope to arrive and measure the width of the .... stand/holder?

Edited February 16, 2023 by Marian

[Marian]

45 minutes ago, malc-c said:

To me (and no expert) that seems to be related to those who are developing and writing drivers rather than the "end user".  I was not able to locate a driver for the serial to USB cable in the support / download page, however chances are it uses either FTDI or more probably the Prolific 2303 driver which was dropped from Windows when MS developed windows 10 (Prolific didn't want to sign up to the licencing agreement)

Chances are you get a warning under device manager against the COM port assigned to the adapter / cable.  Right click on it and select properties. Click the details tab and then select Hardware ID from the "property" drop down list.  Copy the first line that appears in the value box, and then past that into google.  It should then bring up links to the driver for that chipset.   Download and install the driver which hopefully go smoothly and resolve the issue

That was the first I checked.I changed the port from COM1 to COM3 in order to get the firmware to upload to the handheld. The port does’t trigger any warning. 
I copy pasted the readme of the driver though. It says, it’s a mere skeleton and for sure I don’t have enough knowledge to code in C to build it up. I kinda suspect that to be the problem.

[alacant]

12 hours ago, Marian said:

the cam and the guide scope are still on their way.

Please accept my apologies. i assumed you now had the camera. Sorry for the noise!

12 hours ago, Marian said:

have to find a rail long enough to fasten it into both rings together as rigidly as possible

Here's our solution using 2.5mm wall rectangular aluminium profile and a 44mm clamp.

One other must-do is adjust the mesh of the drive and driven gear. which you can inspect by removing the cover on each axis. This is done simply by loosening the motor hex bolts and pushing. Push until fully meshed then back off the minimum amount which allows a full rotation without binding. This adjustment is critical in DEC; you may need a few goes of trial and error to get the backlash of the latter under control.

Cheers and HTH.

   

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by alacant

[Marian]

13 hours ago, alacant said:

Please accept my apologies. i assumed you now had the camera. Sorry for the noise!

No need for apology , like I said, sometimes (quite often actually) I am too eager and make mistakes (sometimes expensive ones).

I already wrote above, I tried to open those plastic covers and I managed to strip the screws . I looked in from the side panels and it looks the same as on your pictures. I almost took my WD40 to grease it up, but I changed my mind.

I like the idea with the aluminium bar, I might copy it. No copyrights, I hope

I actually have the same set as on your pictures. Exactly the same tube as well. I thought it might be too big and heavy for the mount, so it stands in the corner now.

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Marian

[Marian]

Finally, finally the cam arrived today. First I bumped into a problem with connecting. Resolved by installing the driver. 

[Marian]

I just have no idea how to make my mount  to communicate with the camera. Sweating my ... to figure this out.

do I have to do this? Because it doesn't work

Edited March 1, 2023 by Marian