Should I buy a refractor?

[MiladyB]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

To my mind an aperture of less than 70mm for visual use is best left to binoculars because it ceases to deliver a truly 'telescopic' view. Regarding the 'ST ' series Skywatchers, the 'Short Tube' versions are obviously more compact but the slower F ratio versions do deliver a much better image, especially on the moon and planets. I rather like them and I'm an inveterate refractor snob! 

Olly

That's a good point about the slower 'fracs. I'm thinking I should get something that offers a different experience to my fast dobs. The compact nature of the STs is very tempting. It's really tough to choose! 🤔

MiladyB x 

[Stu1smartcookie]

2 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

To my mind an aperture of less than 70mm for visual use is best left to binoculars because it ceases to deliver a truly 'telescopic' view.

Whilst i certainly accept your opion here Olly , my opinion why small fracs have their place for visual is the varied magnification they can achieve by using EPs of differing focal lengths ... although primarily using mine for widefield viewing , sometimes , just looking at the moon with up to 100x magnification gives breathtaking views . Also of course , they cry out for a bit of widefield photography , but , thats another topic altogether

 

[dweller25]

Another option @MiladyB is this “folded refractor”

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-127-ota.html
 

I know it’s not what you asked for but it’s very small and has APO performance and will probably fit straight  onto your tripod.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

5 minutes ago, dweller25 said:

Another option @MiladyB is this “folded refractor”

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-127-ota.html
 

I know it’s not what you asked for but it’s very small and has APO performance and will probably fit straight  onto your tripod.

Undoubtedly these relatively cheap Maks have great optics for the price.The narrow field of view does restrict one's choice of targets though and a pointer alone is not enough if exploring beyond the solar system. An optical finder is necessary.

I've owned a 102mm and own a 127mm. My first travel kit was a 102mm Mak but I sold that eventually because I found I used my binoculars a lot more when away. Eventually adding to 10x50s, some 15x70s and a monopod. The monopod takes some practice but once used to it, the monopod is comfortable to use and hold the view steady. Although not ideal for sharing with others.

 

[TheThing]

Coupled with a Telrad or a Rigel quickfinder (or even the Celestron RDF one) that has a set circles display and, a copy of Turn Left, for example, and you can easily explore beyond the solar system.  In practice, the 'narrow' field of view isn't really a problem, or noticeable, for all but the very largest of deep sky objects.  However, no 'one size' fits all, which is what makes the choice of a scope often bewildering.

[Carbon Brush]

Lots of opinions, all basically correct. Quite simply what suits one viewer does not necessarily suit another.

If you buy a used scope and don't like it, then you can usually sell it on at little loss.
Take a look in classified section and see if something grabs your attention.

The money saved from new does though get used up by owning a scope for each day of the week🤣

 

[ollypenrice]

3 hours ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Whilst i certainly accept your opion here Olly , my opinion why small fracs have their place for visual is the varied magnification they can achieve by using EPs of differing focal lengths ... although primarily using mine for widefield viewing , sometimes , just looking at the moon with up to 100x magnification gives breathtaking views . Also of course , they cry out for a bit of widefield photography , but , thats another topic altogether

 

Yes, true. One thing's for sure, though: small, fast, budget achromats are the worst of all photographic instruments. Conversely, eye-wateringly expensive small, fast apochromats are among the best. 

Olly

[Stu1smartcookie]

3 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Conversely, eye-wateringly expensive small, fast apochromats are among the best. 

Absolutely , Olly ... hence my Sharpstar purchase ( you have given me justification for buying it ... i will show it to the wife 🤣 )

[MalcolmM]

If it were me (and I know it's not ), I would get as good a 60mm refractor as my budget would allow, for the following reasons. It's very different from the dobs. It's truely grab and go, take anywhere. You'll get great views of the moon and Jupiter and Saturn; a good 60mm should easily do x120. Great wide field views. You won't see as many DSOs or split as many doubles, but there's still lots of DSOs and doubles that'll give you a challenge and thrill to find. Admittedly I'm biased but I think there's lots of value in a good 60mm and I find I use it frequently simply because it's so easy to take outside and use.

Malcolm 

[Jules Tohpipi]

I still think that a Skymax 102 Maksutov is worthy of serious consideration. In no particular order:

1. Its field of view and magnification is near identical to the 8" Starsense dob (for any given eyepiece)

2. Meaning the views in the eyepiece will be very similar to your bigger dob - just less bright and less resolution. And no collimation required

3. Skymax 102 overall tube length is 27cm vs 58cm of the Startravel 102 refractor (inc dew shield) . The Skymax is shorter than a sheet of A4 paper and around half the width

4. Skymax has no CA on lunar and planets compared to the ST102 f/4.9 refractor

5. Skymax has a much longer focal length i.e. easier on the eyepieces

Ultimately, would you be happy to carry around something very small with great optics that delivers the same FOV and magnification as your 8" dob? If so the Skymax 102 will do that minus some brightness and resolution. If the aim is to go wider-field and lower magnification than the 8" dob then go for a refractor.

BTW, I'm not bias either way - I've got a 10" dob, Skymax 127 and an ST102 refractor. The Skymax is quickly replacing the dob for all but the most demanding sessions in my older age. The refractor is giving me the wider-field views I never got from the 250P or Skymax.

  

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Jules Tohpipi

[MiladyB]

6 minutes ago, Jules Tohpipi said:

I still think that a Skymax 102 Maksutov is worthy of serious consideration. In no particular order:

1. Its field of view and magnification is near identical to the 8" Starsense dob 

2. Meaning the views in the eyepiece will be very similar to your bigger dob - just less bright and less resolution. And no collimation required

3. Skymax 102 tube length is 27cm vs 58cm of the Startravel 102 refractor. The Skymax is shorter than a sheet of A4 paper

4. Skymax has no CA on lunar and planets compared to the ST102 refractor

5. Skymax has a much longer focal length i.e. easier on the eyepieces

Ultimately, would you be happy to carry around something very small with great optics that delivers the same FOV and magnification as your 8" dob? If so the Skymax 102 will do that minus some brightness and resolution. If the aim is to go wider-field and lower magnification than the 8" dob then go for a refractor.

BTW, I'm not bias either way - I've got a 10" dob, Skymax 127 and an ST102 refractor. 

  

 

 

I've just been chatting with someone else who has suggested the same as you, and the Skymax is definitely going on the list of possibles.

[lvan]

For me, it’s an ED (at least a 72mm). If not I’d consider a Mak. I have a couple of F10 achro’s laying about. You’d have to pay me to use them but I’ve been doing mostly planetary of late. YMMV.

[Gfamily]

For a few years my 127mm Mak had been my scope of choice, but in the last couple of years I've fallen in love with observing again thanks to my second hand 72mm f/6 ED refractor.

Lovely crisp, wide field views. Far better for open clusters and better contrast on nebulae than the Mak. 

YMMV of course, but if you very get a second hand one for a good price it won't have cost you much if you decide it's not for you. 

 

[bomberbaz]

Just to further mix it up, there is always this from StellaMira.

StellaMira 66mm ED f/6 Refractor Telescope | First Light Optics

It's a little over budget but it's lightweight and has ED glass for improved views. It also appears to be very well built and offers up that little extra aperture at 66mm. 

I think it would also make a great little imaging scope but that's a different money pit altogether. 

[vlaiv]

Well, if we are going to go rather small - then there is this interesting model:

https://www.tecnosky.eu/index.php/quadrupletto-tecnosky-62-520mm.html

It comes with a lot of accessories and is quite decent optically. That amici prism alone is £89 (branded as William Optics at FLO, but there are cheaper versions like 70 euro Lacerta version - all produced by Long Perng if I'm not mistaken).

One would need to invest in decent astronomical diagonal mirror, but telescope itself can double as daytime spotter scope with amici prism.

Here is review of said scope branded as Orion StarBlast:

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/reviews/telescopes/orion-starblast-62mm-compact-travel-refractor/

[AstroMuni]

47 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Well, if we are going to go rather small - then there is this interesting model:

https://www.tecnosky.eu/index.php/quadrupletto-tecnosky-62-520mm.html

It comes with a lot of accessories and is quite decent optically.

Wow. But as OP is in UK, unsure if it will incur customs charges?

[vlaiv]

1 minute ago, AstroMuni said:

Wow. But as OP is in UK, unsure if it will incur customs charges?

Not sure where this item can be found in UK.

There are several versions of this scope, so one or another might be available locally.

TS has its on version, although a bit pricier and without all accessories (so it's loose / loose situation):

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p14747_TS-Optics-62-mm-f-8-4-4-Element-Flatfield-Refractor-for-Observation-and-Photography.html

[AstroMuni]

16 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Not sure where this item can be found in UK.

This is when I wish we had not left EU 😞

[MiladyB]

So many great suggestions! 

I need to take some time (and probably a spreadsheet) to go through everything and weigh up all the options.

MiladyB x

[bomberbaz]

10 hours ago, MiladyB said:

So many great suggestions! 

I need to take some time (and probably a spreadsheet) to go through everything and weigh up all the options.

MiladyB x

Good idea re the spreadsheet. I have done the same in the past when considering multiple options for a purchase.  I think what you will find doing so is overlaps on various options allowing you to narrow it down relatively quickly to a few options.

good luck anyway

Steve

[Moon-Monkey]

On 04/11/2022 at 09:19, MiladyB said:

So many great suggestions! 

I need to take some time (and probably a spreadsheet) to go through everything and weigh up all the options.

MiladyB x

Did you decide on a little frac in the end ?? Just to throw my paper in the hat I would say either an ST80 , sure not the best on planets but use that apeture stop and the CA is then minimal great wide field views and on a little az mount super portable even on that 5kg tripod you said you had there is also the svbony SV501P (60mm F6.7version) the CA is almost non existent but you are limited by the apeture slightly but I can fit all that inc tripod in a small backpack still my bite goes to the st80 lol 

[MiladyB]

3 hours ago, Moon-Monkey said:

Did you decide on a little frac in the end ?? Just to throw my paper in the hat I would say either an ST80 , sure not the best on planets but use that apeture stop and the CA is then minimal great wide field views and on a little az mount super portable even on that 5kg tripod you said you had there is also the svbony SV501P (60mm F6.7version) the CA is almost non existent but you are limited by the apeture slightly but I can fit all that inc tripod in a small backpack still my bite goes to the st80 lol 

Analysis paralysis did rather kick in and I haven't managed to make a decision yet but this will be going on the list as a good budget-friendly option!

MiladyB x

Edited November 26, 2022 by MiladyB

[DSviewer]

Entry level SkyWaychers around 80mm would be a good start Sky-Watcher StarQuest-102R f/4.9 Achromatic Refractor Telescope

[MiladyB]

Well it's been quite a while, but I ended up with an offer on a Starsense Explorer 102AZ that was too good not to take a punt on. With the ever-squeezing astro budget this makes sense for me right now.

I love using the 8 inch dob with the app, and having friends and family over and them being able to find things easily makes it a much more social hobby for me. I decided to go for this as something that I can have a bit of fun with and sell on if I decide I want an apo later on.

I'm aware the mount isn't great, and it will show some CA, but I already have decent eyepieces to use instead of the stock ones and I think for what it cost me it should be a good enough trade off for me to justify buying scope number 3.

I've saved all the recommendations in the thread, and I really appreciate all the input! When I have the budget to go for something a bit upgraded I'll definitely be looking at these options.

MiladyB x

[The60mmKid]

The answer to this question is always "yes."