Considering buying a AP modified DSLR, have a few options.

[Trippelforge]

I am looking at possibly upgrading to a newer DSLR instead of having my current one (500D) modified. I have been looking at these models and curious if there is something worth jumping to middle of the ground. Also are there certain venders people prefer to use?

Thanks for any advice!

 

 

[Swillis]

What is the budget you have?

Have you considered a second hand dedicated astro cam? (If the budget allows) 

There are several places which can modify your current camera, which I am sure others can comment on. I expect this would be the cheapest option. 

Or there are often second hand modded DSLRs on the SGL classifieds. This is where I got my modded DSLR. 

Simon 

[Trippelforge]

26 minutes ago, Swillis said:

What is the budget you have?

Have you considered a second hand dedicated astro cam? (If the budget allows) 

There are several places which can modify your current camera, which I am sure others can comment on. I expect this would be the cheapest option. 

Or there are often second hand modded DSLRs on the SGL classifieds. This is where I got my modded DSLR. 

Simon 

I didn't know there was a classified section, I will go check it out.

I did consider an AC as someone else had suggested it. But the prices were really out of my budget, I don't know though if there are lower end ones that are decent though. The one that I was linked was like 1,500 bucks.

Ya I saw that mine could be modified on that site and it wasn't overly expensive. It's probably a good option to save some money because I need to get upgraded motors for my mount. I just wish I could find someone who has used them before to get some insight.

Thanks I am going to go look now at the classified area. 

EDIT: How do I get to the classified area?

Edited October 20, 2022 by Trippelforge

[Swillis]

You need to have 50 posts to get access to the classifieds section. Which you get to quicker than you might think. 

Although I notice you're US based so it might not be that useful as most adverts are UK or EU based. 

Not sure if cloudy nights has a classifieds section?

[edarter]

With regard to a modified dslr, I would suggest one with an articulating screen. Your back and knees will thank you!

Ed

[John Wick]

15 hours ago, edarter said:

With regard to a modified dslr, I would suggest one with an articulating screen. Your back and knees will thank you!

Ed

That's what i don't like about the 6D, it does have WiFi for phone connectivity, but prefer a standalone app that connects via an OTG cable, much more functional than the Canon app.

[WolfieGlos]

On 24/10/2022 at 15:57, John Wick said:

That's what i don't like about the 6D, it does have WiFi for phone connectivity, but prefer a standalone app that connects via an OTG cable, much more functional than the Canon app.

I have a stock 77d and a modified 800d; both have articulated screens, wifi and the same sensor.

The wifi works well for me, but it is a bit of a chore to get an image off of the camera, to the phone, to upload to astrometry to platesolve. Got my modified camera from astronomiser, http://www.astronomiser.co.uk/ . From the point of order, I had it in under a week. Superb service, highly recommended. 

[Trippelforge]

On 20/10/2022 at 15:16, Swillis said:

You need to have 50 posts to get access to the classifieds section. Which you get to quicker than you might think. 

Although I notice you're US based so it might not be that useful as most adverts are UK or EU based. 

Not sure if cloudy nights has a classifieds section?

I has no idea this forum was UK centric. That explains why so many store links are not based in the US (lol). I came across one, but it's very disorganized in my opinion and hard to nail down exactly what you want. It's extremely active though and things that are decent deals sell instantly. I really like how easy this forum is to navigate and how clean it looks. I wish CN would get an update at some point (I am sure it won't).  

On 23/10/2022 at 18:31, edarter said:

With regard to a modified dslr, I would suggest one with an articulating screen. Your back and knees will thank you!

Ed

I use the PC screen so it may not be a huge deal for me? Or is there another reason why an articulating screen would be helpful?

 

16 hours ago, WolfieGlos said:

I have a stock 77d and a modified 800d; both have articulated screens, wifi and the same sensor.

The wifi works well for me, but it is a bit of a chore to get an image off of the camera, to the phone, to upload to astrometry to platesolve. Got my modified camera from astronomiser, http://www.astronomiser.co.uk/ . From the point of order, I had it in under a week. Superb service, highly recommended. 

So the wifi capability is only to a phone? My old 500 connects directly to my PC.

[edarter]

15 minutes ago, Trippelforge said:

I use the PC screen so it may not be a huge deal for me? Or is there another reason why an articulating screen would be helpful?

 

Well it all depends on your routine tbh. Personally I use an old laptop at the mount to control mount, cameras, guiding and imaging. However, as part of my setup routine each session I use the DSLR display to set focus (along with a Bhatinov mask on the scope). That way there is no lag at all between whats displayed and what I'm doing at the focusser. I could use some kind of live view in NINA I guess but I also intend to go to an NUC when the laptop dies, so there won't be a laptop screen at the rig end at all other than the DSLR so the articulating screen has future proofed me from that point of view.

Ed

[WolfieGlos]

44 minutes ago, Trippelforge said:

So the wifi capability is only to a phone? My old 500 connects directly to my PC.

Sorry, probably mislead you there. I use a laptop to run my autoguider, but I keep the laptop inside the house....and I don't have the DSLR connected to the laptop.....because I don't have the cable! I'm outside, with my scope taking a picture on the DSLR with an intervalometer, and then using my phone for the wifi. Save's going in/out of the house, removing memory cards, etc. Perhaps a bit of a clunky method, but it works currently...and saves buying another cable 🤣

[dark knight]

I use a Canon 6d modded by Andy Ellis at Astronomiser, excellent service provider. Why not get a raspberry pi4 8gb loaded with Astroberry and plug camera directly into that, then just use vnc to connect wirelessly from a pc in the house to control everything. This is what I've done and it works extremely well. Nothing like having a large display to check for focusing and framing. In addition it supports autofocusers, guiding, filter wheels and platesolving in a single package. Then there is also the photo planner with full camera control.

[Neil H]

Hi I also been looking and there are a few on Astro buy and sell the dearest so far was 380 , so may be worth a look at 

[ollypenrice]

Have you considered a second hand CCD camera? Market prices have fallen enormously since CMOS cameras appeared yet CCDs are as excellent as they always were. There really is no comparison between DSLR and CCD. 

Olly

[Trippelforge]

18 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Have you considered a second hand CCD camera? Market prices have fallen enormously since CMOS cameras appeared yet CCDs are as excellent as they always were. There really is no comparison between DSLR and CCD. 

Olly

I have been just browsing newer models. Any suggestion on what CCD chipset to look at?

 

On 04/12/2022 at 05:12, Neil H said:

Hi I also been looking and there are a few on Astro buy and sell the dearest so far was 380 , so may be worth a look at 

I haven't gotten on there, isn't that the site that costs money to browse?  What camera is coming up for 380?

[ollypenrice]

19 minutes ago, Trippelforge said:

I have been just browsing newer models. Any suggestion on what CCD chipset to look at?

 

I haven't gotten on there, isn't that the site that costs money to browse?  What camera is coming up for 380?

I'd see what comes up and then look up the spec. There was (and may still be) an Atik 460 on here for about £500. That can take world class images which a DSLR of comparable price cannot.

Olly

[Trippelforge]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

I'd see what comes up and then look up the spec. There was (and may still be) an Atik 460 on here for about £500. That can take world class images which a DSLR of comparable price cannot.

Olly

Thanks I will dig into that!

[rickwayne]

We are talking about deep-sky, yes? I would second Olly's advice to look for used gear, but you'll likely get better results more easily with more-recent cameras (meaning CMOS).

Since the only moving part in these cameras is the fan, and that's pretty bulletproof, buying used is relatively safe. Expect about 75% of new pricing.

I don't know what you're looking at that was $1500, but ZWO are selling the 533MC Pro for near half that right now. That is one of the most highly recommended cameras going if you can live with a square 1" sensor. After using APS-C I thought I'd hate that size but wow was I wrong. Totally enjoy my 183, and the 533 is worlds better tech than the 183. I imaged Andromeda with it and yes, a mosaic with a mono camera is a bit of a pain but OTOH I get nice sharp results on smaller objects.

[Trippelforge]

12 hours ago, rickwayne said:

We are talking about deep-sky, yes? I would second Olly's advice to look for used gear, but you'll likely get better results more easily with more-recent cameras (meaning CMOS).

Since the only moving part in these cameras is the fan, and that's pretty bulletproof, buying used is relatively safe. Expect about 75% of new pricing.

I don't know what you're looking at that was $1500, but ZWO are selling the 533MC Pro for near half that right now. That is one of the most highly recommended cameras going if you can live with a square 1" sensor. After using APS-C I thought I'd hate that size but wow was I wrong. Totally enjoy my 183, and the 533 is worlds better tech than the 183. I imaged Andromeda with it and yes, a mosaic with a mono camera is a bit of a pain but OTOH I get nice sharp results on smaller objects.

 

Ya purely DSO, and I was not looking at the 1,500 price range. The 533 looks to be a pretty good value. Do you use a reducer?

[pipnina]

On 05/12/2022 at 13:15, ollypenrice said:

I'd see what comes up and then look up the spec. There was (and may still be) an Atik 460 on here for about £500. That can take world class images which a DSLR of comparable price cannot.

Olly

I looked that model up just now, the only sad thing about most astro cams at affordable price ranges (i.e. below 1k) is the micro-sized sensors 😕 Someone used to an APS-C camera switching to that Atik 460 will have images with only 1/4 the "surface area". So in some ways it seems a bit wasteful, as 75% of the light being collected by the telescope isn't being recorded vs the APS-C DSLR. I can't argue about the quality of images it would produce though in comparison... But the loss of so much light and FOV is bound to make those gains a painful compromise.

[rickwayne]

Trust me, you're not paying by the photon and it doesn't hurt when you just spray them past the sensor. I thought that it would, but it doesn't.

Now, if you really want to optimize everything, sure, a sensor as big as the light cone from your optical train will give you the biggest pixels (for a given X by Y) and thus likely the lowest read noise. And a bigger sensor does increase your FOV.

But of course the converse is true, too: a smaller sensor with smaller pixels lets you image smaller objects without cropping. Eh, you tries it out in Stellarium and takes your choice, I say. 

I haven't yet used my reducer/flattener with the longer scopes and the 183, though I have with the Stellarvue. I had trouble figuring out how to make the backfocus work out with an OAG. A straight reducer would be good, but I only have the SFFR-70APO that came with the SV70t. Between the fairly flat field of an RC and the tiny sensor, I have not needed a flattener at all for the AT8RC or the AT12RC.

When I went to the CEM70 I mounted my little 50mm guidescope right to the side of the saddle, so I could swap imaging scopes at will and still guide. But the guiding image scale is 4.77"/px and the imaging scale for the 8" is 0.3"/px, which is really asking a lot of the guiding system, so I want to get an OAG setup running again.

[Trippelforge]

10 hours ago, rickwayne said:

Trust me, you're not paying by the photon and it doesn't hurt when you just spray them past the sensor. I thought that it would, but it doesn't.

Now, if you really want to optimize everything, sure, a sensor as big as the light cone from your optical train will give you the biggest pixels (for a given X by Y) and thus likely the lowest read noise. And a bigger sensor does increase your FOV.

But of course the converse is true, too: a smaller sensor with smaller pixels lets you image smaller objects without cropping. Eh, you tries it out in Stellarium and takes your choice, I say. 

I haven't yet used my reducer/flattener with the longer scopes and the 183, though I have with the Stellarvue. I had trouble figuring out how to make the backfocus work out with an OAG. A straight reducer would be good, but I only have the SFFR-70APO that came with the SV70t. Between the fairly flat field of an RC and the tiny sensor, I have not needed a flattener at all for the AT8RC or the AT12RC.

When I went to the CEM70 I mounted my little 50mm guidescope right to the side of the saddle, so I could swap imaging scopes at will and still guide. But the guiding image scale is 4.77"/px and the imaging scale for the 8" is 0.3"/px, which is really asking a lot of the guiding system, so I want to get an OAG setup running again.

 

I looked through your Astrobin at the ASI183MM images and they look pretty amazing. I was a bit surprised due to a lot of people kind of writing off the more budget minded camera's. I get the FOV issue, I have spent some time with the online tool and was pretty amazed at how much I would lose moving from my DSLR. But it seems a focal reducer can mitigate enough of that to not be horrible.

This has been a VERY hard decision for me. In fact I skipped out on buying one and picked up a custom drive system for my sons XMAS present. Ugh, I just am so stuck on this issue. 

[Elp]

I quite like the 183, so useful I've got a cooled and a non cooled one. You do get fov issues but I find using a reducer or my dslr lens setup solves it. Being a smaller sensor backspacing and distorted stars at the edges is easier to manage.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I also have a cooled and a non-cooled ASI183, and rather like them. Might go for a bigger sensor at some time, but for now they will do. I also still have a modded 550D, which can produce some nice results, despite its age, especially when paired with the Samyang 135mm F/2.

[Trippelforge]

52 minutes ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

I also have a cooled and a non-cooled ASI183, and rather like them. Might go for a bigger sensor at some time, but for now they will do. I also still have a modded 550D, which can produce some nice results, despite its age, especially when paired with the Samyang 135mm F/2.

 

The photo is from your 550D?

[alacant]

3 hours ago, Trippelforge said:

so stuck on this issue

Hi

We use and recommend DSLRs. True, a few years ago, early models were insensitive and noisy but technology moves rapidly. They are rugged, affordable and above all most have a decent  aps-c sized sensor. A dedicated camera this big is going to cost far more than a DSLR. The images they produce are easy to process and of more than acceptable quality. 

From experience, we do not recommend going used for camera.

Which DSLR?

You don't need a top of the range model as most of the daylight shooting wizardry therein will never be used. Any Eos model with the 18mp sensor works well when astro-modified. We use mainly 700d and 4000d. The 24mp models are also good but we had trouble with the earlier 750d models. AFAICT, all newer and subsequent models are fine.

Anyway, HTH you decide.