Takahashi FS-60CB vs. Skywatcher Evostar 72ED

[Surfer Chris]

Firstly, I really appreciate all of the comments posted above. Its always good to have views from different perspectives & experiences.

For me, a 60mm scope seems to make sense right now for the extreme portability and grab & go ease. A couple of years ago, I was dropping some stuff off at the local recycling centre, when out of the corner of my eye, I happened to spot a small Tasco scope on a tripod (see below). It is obviously a very basic scope, but it appeared to be in almost immaculate condition (just a bit dusty). So I purchased it from the recycling centre for the grand sum of £1, to bring back home for my young son to use. It came with two eyepieces included.

One Winter evening last year, I decided to take this outside for a little while. Had a glance at the Orion nebula, the Moon, Pleiades & Mars. The views were not great to be honest, but for me this was not due to the scale/size of the targets, just the poor focus and tiny field of view through the supplied eyepieces. Mars appeared as a bright orange squiggle (the mount is a bit wobbly plus a fair amount of CA), and I could only really make out the larger craters on the Moon. That said, I still found it enjoyable, even just sat there admiring the bright orange colour of Mars was great, and the scope was still good enough for me to return out on quite a few cold evenings for short 15 minutes sessions. It was great being able to just collapse the legs on the lightweight tripod and walk out the door with it in one hand. It was this scope that got me thinking about investing in a decent scope,  and shortly after I purchased the FC-100DC (my first proper scope & quite a contrast to the £1 Tasco!). The last time I had used a scope prior to the one below, was another 60mm Tasco refractor (with a longer red tube) & 100mm Tasco reflector I had as a teenager some 25+ years ago. I still have the 100mm Tasco reflector (couldn't get rid of it as I worked through quite a few school holidays to earn the money to pay for that).

So I have an idea of what to expect with a 60mm refractor in terms of aperture/light grasp - but I hope the FS-60CB achieves a much better focus and provides crisper images than the old Tasco!

More recently, I have also found myself enjoying a very quick casual scan with some old 10x50 Tasco binoculars before bed. Again the scale of the image is fine - but it annoys me that I cannot hold the binoculars steady enough.

On the topic of portability, my Mum has also just moved to a new property overlooking the sea here in Dorset, so I am also thinking it might be nice to be able to quickly pack the small scope up and use it from that location with a different view of the sky being possible. Unfortunately at the moment, despite having nice dark skies here in rural mid-Dorset, I am unable to see Venus from our garden, as we have a long row of tall beech trees due South, immediately in front of our property, but I noticed from my Mum's garden the other day that Venus, Jupiter & Saturn were all plainly visible above the sea after sunset.

At some point in the future (maybe 5-10 years down the road), assuming I am still keen on the hobby, I hope to acquire a large aperture scope (maybe something like a 10" or 12" Dob) to use alongside the 60mm & 100mm refractors. But at this moment in time, I simply do not have space to store such an item, nor the time to use it.

I had briefly considered a Televue scope too (they seem to also have great reviews) but the new prices for these put me off a bit.

 

[Surfer Chris]

6 hours ago, HollyHound said:

For reference, as we’ve been discussing the two variants of FS-60, my CQ 1.7x Extender arrived this morning, so here’s some comparison photos…

Before: FS-60CB (FL 355mm, f/5.9, super widefield)

After: FS-60Q (FL 600m, f/10, flat field quadruplet)

I really like the look of these set-ups.

I think the cradle with foot looks more appropriate for the FS-60CB. I think the other style cradle would make the short FS-60CB scope perhaps look a little unbalanced and rear heavy? I guess the downside though to having the foot and cradle right back to achieve good balance is that the foot gets in the way of the right hand focuser wheel.

How does the balance & stability feel with the narrower foot mounted cradle clamped onto the longer Q scope? The other cradle would look fine on the Q scope (and possibly offer greater stability for the longer length) but then again the foot mounted style doesn't look out of place, so I wonder why Takahashi bothered with having two styles?

I was almost tempted to swap my scope order this morning over to the f/10 Q-scope (red plate), but I think I should probably stick to my original plan of getting the FS-60CB and adding the extender a few months down the line (after the dust has settled when I announce this latest purchase)!

Will be great to hear your verdict on how the FS-60Q compares to the FS-60CB.

[HollyHound]

3 hours ago, Surfer Chris said:

Will be great to hear your verdict on how the FS-60Q compares to the FS-60CB.

I will of course report on here, once I’ve had a chance to get some viewing with the FS-60Q 👍

I will also try to swap the cradles over and see which seems to work best for which combination. It will also depend on which eyepiece is used (balance).

I think you will enjoy the FS-60Q ( I have), plus as you say, you can always do the same and get the extender anytime.

[KP82]

Has the OP considered 80mm f/6 triplet?

With the money you pay for the FS-60CB, you could almost grab a 80mm f/6 triplet (e.g. tecnosky). That's 77% increase in aperture. It's still lightweight (~3kg) and its size is definitely in the grab'n'go category. On top of that the triplet offers equal if not better correction as any standard ED/Fluorite doublets.

My visual travel setup includes an Altair 80EDT-R + Scopetech Zero + a slightly modded Explore Scientific ST-1 tripod.

[Surfer Chris]

I have only just seen your post KP82, but thanks for the suggestion. I thought triplets were mostly used for imaging though? Anyway, its a little too late now, as picked something up this afternoon...

[Stu]

27 minutes ago, Surfer Chris said:

I have only just seen your post KP82, but thanks for the suggestion. I thought triplets were mostly used for imaging though? Anyway, its a little too late now, as picked something up this afternoon...

Lovely stuff Chris. My CQ x1.7 extender arrives tomorrow 👍👍

[Surfer Chris]

9 minutes ago, Stu said:

Lovely stuff Chris. My CQ x1.7 extender arrives tomorrow 👍👍

That will be a nice early Xmas present for you. I took the plunge and changed my order from the FS-60CB to the FS-60Q, as I knew I would be itching to try both CB & Q options out as soon as possible, and was getting concerned that the latest Covid situation might cause delays in new CQ extenders getting through to the UK. Plus, thought it would be nice to have a play with the full Q scope over the holiday period.

It's such a light package - just what I was after for a grab & go.

I didn't come with a red badge though! More of a blue/purple?

[Surfer Chris]

Has anybody else noticed that when you initially put the Tak cradles around the tube, and tighten the thumb screw, it seems like the screw could do with being a little bit longer? Just assembled the cradle and it looks like the two halves need to come in closer together (and there is only about 5-6mm of thread engaged into the thumb nut). I am reluctant to tighten the cradle hard up - for fear of damaging something. I wonder if the screw thread length caters for the fact that over time the felt compresses, and then the two hales will naturally close up to one another? I think there is enough thread engagement present to keep everything secure - but would hate to think of that cradle popping open one day!!!

[HollyHound]

9 minutes ago, Surfer Chris said:

Has anybody else noticed that when you initially put the Tak cradles around the tube, and tighten the thumb screw, it seems like the screw could do with being a little bit longer? Just assembled the cradle and it looks like the two halves need to come in closer together (and there is only about 5-6mm of thread engaged into the thumb nut). I am reluctant to tighten the cradle hard up - for fear of damaging something. I wonder if the screw thread length caters for the fact that over time the felt compresses, and then the two hales will naturally close up to one another? I think there is enough thread engagement present to keep everything secure - but would hate to think of that cradle popping open one day!!!

That gap does look a little large to my eye (see mine for comparison), but probably within tolerance🤔

Have a look underneath and make sure that the double joint is correctly adjusted... it is possible for it to not be completely straight and thus could give a larger gap on top.... wiggle it around a bit and you might be surprised that the gap closes slightly 👍

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by HollyHound

[HollyHound]

49 minutes ago, Surfer Chris said:

That will be a nice early Xmas present for you. I took the plunge and changed my order from the FS-60CB to the FS-60Q, as I knew I would be itching to try both CB & Q options out as soon as possible, and was getting concerned that the latest Covid situation might cause delays in new CQ extenders getting through to the UK. Plus, thought it would be nice to have a play with the full Q scope over the holiday period.

It's such a light package - just what I was after for a grab & go.

I didn't come with a red badge though! More of a blue/purple?

Odd it doesn't have the red badge though, I thought the FS-60Q when bought as a kit did 🤔

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Surfer Chris said:

Has anybody else noticed that when you initially put the Tak cradles around the tube, and tighten the thumb screw, it seems like the screw could do with being a little bit longer? Just assembled the cradle and it looks like the two halves need to come in closer together (and there is only about 5-6mm of thread engaged into the thumb nut). I am reluctant to tighten the cradle hard up - for fear of damaging something. I wonder if the screw thread length caters for the fact that over time the felt compresses, and then the two hales will naturally close up to one another? I think there is enough thread engagement present to keep everything secure - but would hate to think of that cradle popping open one day!!!

It does look a little wider than mine but Hollyhound gives good advice about the hinge, that may help.

[jock1958]

2 hours ago, Surfer Chris said:

Has anybody else noticed that when you initially put the Tak cradles around the tube, and tighten the thumb screw, it seems like the screw could do with being a little bit longer? Just assembled the cradle and it looks like the two halves need to come in closer together (and there is only about 5-6mm of thread engaged into the thumb nut). I am reluctant to tighten the cradle hard up - for fear of damaging something. I wonder if the screw thread length caters for the fact that over time the felt compresses, and then the two hales will naturally close up to one another? I think there is enough thread engagement present to keep everything secure - but would hate to think of that cradle popping open one day!!!

I know my tube clamp is the one with the foot but gap seems smaller than yours, the green felt under yours seems a bit thicker than mine, could that be the reason? 

[Surfer Chris]

8 hours ago, jock1958 said:

I know my tube clamp is the one with the foot but gap seems smaller than yours, the green felt under yours seems a bit thicker than mine, could that be the reason? 

 

Yes the felt does look thicker on mine. I have jiggled the hinge-links a little but not really helped. I am guessing they use the same casting patterns for each cradle (of a particular model), so must just be the felt.

[Surfer Chris]

12 hours ago, HollyHound said:

HollyHound - I guess this is your FC-76DCU? Please could I ask you what your gap is measuring at (roughly)? I am seeing about 11mm. Scaling against the thickness of your lugs, I am guessing about 8mm.

[jock1958]

1 hour ago, Surfer Chris said:

Yes the felt does look thicker on mine. I have jiggled the hinge-links a little but not really helped. I am guessing they use the same casting patterns for each cradle (of a particular model), so must just be the felt.

It’s entirely possible the felt will compress over time, bought my 2004 FS-60C second hand over 18 months ago and it’s something I hadn’t noticed. I think all the bases have been covered and it seems the correct clamp for your scope. If it’s still of concern you could measure the gap and the length of the bolt and contact the Tak Guru Ian King at FLO to compare with another new example? 

Edited December 16, 2021 by jock1958

[alacant]

Hi

We recently had both a Williams (Swan Brand?) and a 72ed. 

To untrained eyes (mine) they do pretty much an identical job. In the fashion department, my gf described the former as cute. The SW was simply a telescope!

Cheers

 

[HollyHound]

2 hours ago, Surfer Chris said:

14 hours ago, HollyHound said:

HollyHound - I guess this is your FC-76DCU? Please could I ask you what your gap is measuring at (roughly)? I am seeing about 11mm. Scaling against the thickness of your lugs, I am guessing about 8m

Hi Chris,

Good guess... yes this the bottom picture is of the FC-76DCU and  it's actually 9mm 👍

Cheers, Gary

[MalcolmM]

Hi @Surfer Chris I'm at work at the moment so can't get you a better picture but here is one from another post of my 60CB which might give you another comparison on how tight the clam shell should be. If it helps, I shall try and get a photo of the thickness of felt on the inside when I get home. 

Malcolm

 

[Surfer Chris]

Thanks all.

It isn't bothering me too much. I have fired an e-mail to Takahashi Europe, might send one in to FLO too. I don't think its suddenly going to let go. And I wonder if the felt might compress a little given time. I think the screw could still be a bit longer though to provide near full engagement through the nut.

Will see what they come back with - maybe the other cradle option (with foot) is generally a better fit?

Waiting for the clouds to clear off now.

 

[Dean Hale]

Hi Chris

I had a similar issue, however in my case it was the hinge being slightly off as alluded to by Gary, pushing the top of the hinge with my thumb slightly when closing seemed to sort the issue - for me anyway. Lovely scope by the way.

[Surfer Chris]

I have taken the tube in and out of the cradle a couple of times today, and as a result the felt must be compressing slightly. Gap down to 10mm now. I also popped the extender out earlier to check the difference between f/5.9 & f/10. Only looking at twigs and pine needles on the trees opposite, but I would say even with my unexperienced eye, there is an improvement in sharpness with the extender in place. Only took it up to 75x using the zoom EP, but no hint of colour on the outline of the small twigs against the sky so hoping that's a good sign.

Nice scope too Dean!

[jock1958]

1 hour ago, Surfer Chris said:

I have taken the tube in and out of the cradle a couple of times today, and as a result the felt must be compressing slightly. Gap down to 10mm now. I also popped the extender out earlier to check the difference between f/5.9 & f/10. Only looking at twigs and pine needles on the trees opposite, but I would say even with my unexperienced eye, there is an improvement in sharpness with the extender in place. Only took it up to 75x using the zoom EP, but no hint of colour on the outline of the small twigs against the sky so hoping that's a good sign.

Nice scope too Dean!

There’s no doubt about it’s a brilliant bit of kit and IMO better in F10 mode for visual, weak link in my setup is the manfrotto 190 tripod which suffers a bit of vibration especially at high magnifications. I’m negotiating with the other half for a beafier tripod upgrade for Xmas 🤣🤞

Edited December 16, 2021 by jock1958

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, jock1958 said:

There’s no doubt about it’s a brilliant bit of kit and IMO better in F10 mode as far as visual goes, weak link in my setup is the manfrotto 190 tripod which suffers a bit of vibration especially at high magnifications. I’m negotiating with the other half at beafier tripod upgrades for Xmas 🤣🤞

That’s just begging for a Gitzo 😀👍.

The courier apparently missed me today, despite me and my dear lady being in the house, so I’m waiting for my CQ Extender but that looks a nice little setup.