HEQ5PRO set up question not seen anywhere yet.

[spikkyboy]

Hi all, I've had my HEQ5PRO for a while now, concentrated on polar alignment and now have a QHY polariscope. All good.

When I do say a 2 star alignment the scope is way off the goto targets on one of the axis. I have watched many set up and how to videos and have noticed something.

The dovetail that actually holds the scope in the clamp sometimes has the nuts on the left and sometimes the right. This could mean that we are a whole 180 degrees out? Or once I have set up and told the scope that this is the home position does that not matter? Martin did it bolds right, astrofarsography bolts left.

Any thoughts? Last night I polar aligned everything great. Did a 2 star align and then goto jupiter. Slewed around to correct position but about 10 degrees too low and I had to manually adjust so I've done something wrong.

Further question, if this does happen and I manually realign to centre the target can I tell the scope to take that new setting?

As always thanks for any answers, you always come up trumps.

I have ordered bobs knobs for the 200p and the bay replacement bolts for the terrible rubbish supplied with the HEQ5.

David

[Cornelius Varley]

It doesn't matter which side the bolts are or even if the head is rotated 90 degrees to allow for a dual setup. As long as the telescope is pointing in the correct direction (towards the NCP) the handset will assume the correct home position is set.

[Shimrod]

25 minutes ago, spikkyboy said:

When I do say a 2 star alignment the scope is way off the goto targets on one of the axis. I have watched many set up and how to videos and have noticed something.

The dovetail that actually holds the scope in the clamp sometimes has the nuts on the left and sometimes the right. This could mean that we are a whole 180 degrees out? Or once I have set up and told the scope that this is the home position does that not matter? Martin did it bolds right, astrofarsography bolts left.

 

On an equatorial mount you would know if you have the telescope mounted the wrong way as it would be pointing at the ground instead of the sky, although it is possible to mount a telescope the wrong way on an alt-az mount.

What you may be  seeing are people who have upgraded the saddle to either a better single saddle or dual saddle.. On my AVX for example, the saddle on the mount accommodates both Vixen style dovetails and Celestron CGE style. The latter are wider, so when using a telescope with a different style dovetail, I have to move the clamping bolts from one side of the saddle to the other.

Single (and Dual) dovetail style saddles with a clamp (like this one ADM saddle) remove the need to have clamping bolts on either side, but can be mounted for left or right handed use. You may also be seeing people who have upgraded the saddle and put the clamps on the side they prefer.

 

36 minutes ago, spikkyboy said:

Any thoughts? Last night I polar aligned everything great. Did a 2 star align and then goto jupiter. Slewed around to correct position but about 10 degrees too low and I had to manually adjust so I've done something wrong.

 

 

This sort of margin of error can be caused by forgetting to allow for British summer time, or getting the format of the date wrong. I don't have an HEQ5 but hopefully someone will be along shortly to advise on correct formats.

[Tomatobro]

I agree with Shimrod.

I got so fed up with having to enter all the data every time and making mistakes I invested in a SW GPS puck. From then on setup and alignment was a breeze. Not cheap I know but I figured you have to put some value on the frustration and time you waste.

[M40]

There does not "appear" to be any feedback to the controller from head position as you can spin the head numerous times, call it the home position and away it goes so the fixing knobs can be pointing in any direction. What the controller does rely on is that the mount is polar aligned, level and the handset settings are correct. As for the settings, I just look the location info up on the pc, write it down and keep it handy. I have noticed though that between mobile phone apps, the altitude seems to change dramatically between devices so I use the light pollution map for altitude as it seems to be very accurate.

One question though, when you align with say Jupiter, does the mount track ok or do you occasionally have to reposition? 

[StevieDvd]

I seem to recall you were getting good results before, so has anything notable changed?  Of course an obvious one is we are now on BST.

The first clue is you said the first alignments are way off  - is it possible you have knocked the mount after doing PA?

The first goto for an alignment expects your PA to be good, date/time/location/DST etc all set correctly and a correct home position, it then adjusts for any errors to make later gotos better. 

Have you set the home position, marked the mount perhaps to make it easier? There is a good thread showing how to use a spirit level to mark the starting points. I'll see if I can find the thread for you.

If you get this again next time, try aligning the first star by loosening the clutches and moving the scope manually to align, tighten the clutche and see if the next align is closer.

BTW when you asked about synching your 'manual' adjustment, is that using the handset? As far as I recall you can't synch your mount to that position (other than in software like eqmod) as being the correct alignment for the target. A clutch open manual move should do that though.

[malc-c]

I have an HEQ5 permanently set up in an observatory, and did a review of the Polmaster (I presume that is what you are referring to by QHY Polarscope ?) when it came out,  and whilst it was  a nice (expensive) bit of kit it seemed to work OK.  However I recently tried the excellent utility in Sharpcap software.   This resulted in detecting the mount was quite a bit out, which was confusing as it being permanently set up shouldn't have moved and I don't recall bumping the mount enough to displace it.  But the resulting gotos after I had fine tuned the PA were very close and well within the field of view of the canon D400 attached to the 200P.

I would suggest paying the £15 or so for a 12 mount licence for Sharp Cap and see if using that to Polar Align the mount makes any difference.  If  the targets still appear to be 10-15 degrees out (east or west) then this would suggest that the handset is somehow getting confused with BST and UT.... Steve's tip about releasing clutches and manually centre the target and then lock the clutches and see if the next target is within the FOV of the eyepiece / camera is a good one.   

[spikkyboy]

3 hours ago, M40 said:

There does not "appear" to be any feedback to the controller from head position as you can spin the head numerous times, call it the home position and away it goes so the fixing knobs can be pointing in any direction. What the controller does rely on is that the mount is polar aligned, level and the handset settings are correct. As for the settings, I just look the location info up on the pc, write it down and keep it handy. I have noticed though that between mobile phone apps, the altitude seems to change dramatically between devices so I use the light pollution map for altitude as it seems to be very accurate.

One question though, when you align with say Jupiter, does the mount track ok or do you occasionally have to reposition? 

Yes tracking is spot on. Once I've found a target I can go and make a cup of tea and when i come back still dead centre of eyepiece.

 

[spikkyboy]

4 hours ago, Tomatobro said:

I agree with Shimrod.

I got so fed up with having to enter all the data every time and making mistakes I invested in a SW GPS puck. From then on setup and alignment was a breeze. Not cheap I know but I figured you have to put some value on the frustration and time you waste.

I have the SW GPS so date and time are set, daylight saving was causing me an hour error but I changed it in handset settings. The weird thing is that the slew to target is spot on just the altitude is too low.

The Polarscope has had me doing some major fiddling with the altitude bolts which was obviously set to 51 degrees but the software gets to the part where it says now align polaris to circle using alt az and altitude bolts only. Sometimes im cranking up perhaps 3 degrees from where it was previously.

I will keep practicing. I also notice that everybody spirit levels the tripod before the mount head goes on. I have the mount fitted and have used the supplied bubble, maybe this is a mistake so will break back down to tripod and start from scratch.

I have my patio marked N north for front leg and i drew lines out for East to West and with front foot on N and rear legs on the E/W line I am almost polar aligned at the start. Last 2 nights Polaris not very bright so may have even picked the wrong star?

Thanks for all the suggestions everybody.

[spikkyboy]

3 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

I seem to recall you were getting good results before, so has anything notable changed?  Of course an obvious one is we are now on BST.

The first clue is you said the first alignments are way off  - is it possible you have knocked the mount after doing PA?

The first goto for an alignment expects your PA to be good, date/time/location/DST etc all set correctly and a correct home position, it then adjusts for any errors to make later gotos better. 

Have you set the home position, marked the mount perhaps to make it easier? There is a good thread showing how to use a spirit level to mark the starting points. I'll see if I can find the thread for you.

If you get this again next time, try aligning the first star by loosening the clutches and moving the scope manually to align, tighten the clutche and see if the next align is closer.

BTW when you asked about synching your 'manual' adjustment, is that using the handset? As far as I recall you can't synch your mount to that position (other than in software like eqmod) as being the correct alignment for the target. A clutch open manual move should do that though.

I did set home position using the spirit level as per tutorials. After doing PA and select 2 star alignment the first star suggested was Altair, chose that and after the slew there was nothing in the eyepiece. Manually found it using HC and an app on my phone. 2nd alignment star was Vega, same thing selected yes and after slew nothing in eyepiece.

I suspect my trouble is mount level as I have triple checked over everything else.

[StevieDvd]

Some will tell you the tripod does not have to be level (me included) but that does not mean if you can level it easily that should not be done. The combination of the tripod & mount should have the mount axis pointing to the NCP - a level tripod let's you set the Alt/Az settings a little easier, but if not the case that's what the adjusters are for.

So for your patio location if the tripod is levelled nicely the Alt dial would be roughly right at 51, or at 53 if the level was off - but both could be pointing to the NCP.

Hopefully, your issue is a simple one with levelling being different. I would expect the settings to  stay roughly the same if you keep the mount on the tripod and don't change the tripod legs. Especially as you have markings on the ground for a quicker setup.

Your bubble may be out but if you do a setup with that centred and check the home position with a spirit level in the saddle and on the weights bar it will be a good starting point.

 

Edit

Here is the useful link for home position setting I mentioned earlier

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by StevieDvd
Added link

[malc-c]

Just read Stuarts Post a touch of Deja vu

[M40]

4 hours ago, spikkyboy said:

Yes tracking is spot on. Once I've found a target I can go and make a cup of tea and when i come back still dead centre of eyepiece.

 

Once you have centered your object and it's tracking ok I would suggest that polar alignment is ok.  One thing to try is fit the telescope and weights etc to the mount, then polar align. The weight of the OTA could be causing something to move. Don't know if this would work with the QHY system but every now and then I just do a quick check on the polar scope. I simply line it up with Polaris as bang on the center lines as I can get it, then spin the head. Polaris should remain on the center. This tells me that the polar scope is aligned with the mount. Hope it helps.

[spikkyboy]

One further question, If front leg faces to N how essential are the other two legs? I have drawn lines out on my patio and an accurate East to West line.

My theory is if every thing is set right and i plonk my tripod onto the same 3 marks I must be almost polar aligned at the start? Then just small adjustment needed. I had it all working fine and now disaster so I can't figure out what's changed.

The Polemaster has had me adjust the altitude to get Polaris into the setting circle so could be that? On the scale its still in the region of 51 degrees, maybe half degree plus or minus? Not a very accurately marked scale.

[Pompey Monkey]

If you are polar aligned but your gotos are out out in elevation, this suggests that the star alignment is incorrect.

Are you definitely syncing to the correct stars when you do your alignment?

[M40]

If the front leg is facing North, I set the azimuth adjustment knobs to the mid point, then physically move the lot so that it roughly aligns with Polaris. This means that you have the maximum adjustment on the knobs. After it's aligned, then mark the floor and as you say you can just plonk the mount down in the same spot and its a good timesaver 👌

As far as the altitude scale goes, I just checked, mine is showing 52.5' give or take, whereas if it was accurate it should show 51.8' so treat that as a guide only.

[malc-c]

Before I set my scope up in the observatory I placed washers into the patio on which the tripod legs sat.  To get close to the initial polar alignment position I used a compass to find North, and then using a 4' strip of wood parallel to the needle made a chalk mark so I had a line running North South.  I placed the North facing leg of the tripod on this line, and then placed the strip of wood against the other two legs, on the ground, and used a set square and tape measure to place them evenly and squarely either side of the line.  I then used a permeant marker and drew round the foot of each leg where is sat on the patio.  This left me with tree circles.  I then used a masonry drill, three 1" stainless steel washers, and stainless steel screws and fixed the washers centrally in these circles.   

The first night out I placed the tripod with each leg on its washer and polar aligned the mount.  Now magnetic North and true North are not the same, but I found for setting up the mount it was close enough and well within the adjustment of azimuth bolts.  I would still polar align each time I went out, but it would be very quick as the mount was already in a very close proximity to being aligned.

An alternative to using a compass is to use a stick that is set perfectly vertical, and let it cast a shadow at exactly midday GMT (you can be exact at 8 minutes past, but in the scheme of things its negligible) and then scribe the line using the shadow as a reference, and then repeat the process above to square off the other two legs.

Hope that helps    

Edited August 29, 2021 by malc-c

[wookie1965]

I always polar align without weights and ota but I then check it again when loaded up. I find when starting off forget the star alignment goto a bright star centre it by pressing back once then back again but hold it, it will then flash up centre object always finish with left and up on the handset (Helps with backlash) leave it tracking then goto another star or object at the moment Saturn and Jupiter make ideal candidates centre that object like before. 

Now without moving the scope go in and do a two star alignment the mount knows where it is already the first star will be off but not by much the second will be even closer in the FOV after that goto a known object. 

I have found this to be the work around for the mounts idiosyncrasies usually everything is either dead centre or really close but definitely in the FOV.