grab and go for dark skies

[tripleped]

I've been looking at  various grab and go reflectors for transporting  to dark sky sites. I live in a Bortle 8 but there are some  Bortle 4 areas about  an hour away. The  key for me is portability as  I have  some back problems. To that end I've  liked what  I read about the Zhumell z130. This would be primarily for  DSO viewing. From what  I've learned  on SGL I know that in general a smaller  aperture scope in dark skies will outperform a larger scope in light polluted skies. Specifically, I wonder how much better the z130 would do in Bortle 4 vs. my 10" DOB in Bortle 8 (where I can hardly  see galaxies except for M31 and M81  or Nebulae except for M42) I might  be able  to handle transporting  a 6" classic DOB but obviously the z130 would be easier to lug along. But if I would see MUCH more with a 6" vs 5" I would find a way to make it work.  Curious what  people  think and as always I very much appreciate any advice I can get.  Thanks!

[Pixies]

What about a Heritage 150p instead of a 6" classic dob? 

I know someone who has it mounted on an AZ5 and tripod, rather than have to lug some kind of platform/table around.

[Commanderfish]

Hmm, consider the Stellalyra 6" classical cassegrain. The field of view won't be more than 1.5 degrees, but the weight is only about 5.5kg for a 6" OTA.

[tripleped]

the heritage  150p looks interesting to me but I looked at the picture- is there anyplace to mount a telrad or rigel with that  open tube design?

[JeremyS]

27 minutes ago, tripleped said:

the heritage  150p looks interesting to me but I looked at the picture- is there anyplace to mount a telrad or rigel with that  open tube design?

The H 150p is a lovely scope and readily transported.

It comes with an acceptable RDF so you don’t really need a Telrad, which would probably be too bulky anyway. With a nice wide field eyepiece you’ll be well away 👍🏻

Edited April 20, 2021 by JeremyS

[Stu]

Yep, put a Heritage 150p on a tripod, works really well. The RDF is quite useable I find.

[scarp15]

Perhaps keep a look out for a used 8" F6 OOUK - VX8L dob. The tube is light weight and the whole unit is quite manageable. Very capable performer under a dark sky. 

[tripleped]

Thanks to all of you! Kind of intrigued by the heritage 150p. I’d probably get a shroud for the open part. Hauling it around should be manageable. And the price is attractive as well! Plus my 10” dob is a fast scope so already have appropriate quality ep’s. 

[AlexK]

I bet that 6" views will be frustrating after your 10" even at the dark site (the viewing improvement is there indeed but not three times! (10/6)^2).

If I would be you, instead of shaving a couple of kilos, I'd rather think of some improved transportation aid. Can't tell what that might be as you haven't stated HOW you travel to your dark destination (car, train, personal heli...), how you move it from home to the car (like is there stairs), and WHAT is that dark spot exactly (rural campground, a mansion in the Alps...) :)))).

A simple aluminum wheeled dolly cart might solve your back problem without sacrificing 10" views.

Heritage 130 or 150 is actually a pain to use compared to your classic 10" Dobson. It meant for kids having no problem fighting it all night :))))

Reflector on a cheap photo tripod??? Are you kidding folks?? Or trolling the poor guy? That will be a nightmare!

Edited April 21, 2021 by AlexK

[Nik271]

5 hours ago, AlexK said:

I bet that 6" views will be frustrating after your 10" even at the dark site (the viewing improvement is there indeed but not three times! (10/6)^2).

If I would be you, instead of shaving a couple of kilos, I'd rather think of some improved transportation aid. Can't tell what that might be as you haven't stated HOW you travel to your dark destination (car, train, personal heli...), how you move it from home to the car (like is there stairs), and WHAT is that dark spot exactly (rural campground, a mansion in the Alps...) :)))).

A simple aluminum wheeled dolly cart might solve your back problem without sacrificing 10" views.

Heritage 130 or 150 is actually a pain to use compared to your classic 10" Dobson. It meant for kids having no problem fighting it all night :))))

Reflector on a cheap photo tripod??? Are you kidding folks?? Or trolling the poor guy? That will be a nightmare!

Well if you stay at low magnifications a sturdy photo tripod is not too bad. Actually my main worry with the Heritage will be collimation, is it going to hold it well when shaken about? Then again if you don't use it above x100 even collimation is not such a big issue.

[tripleped]

I do have a sturdy dolly cart that I use to get my 10" dob down the 3 steps out of the house using ramps so that works great. And  I could certainly get the dolly into the car.  The problem is getting the Dob's heavy base  into my SUV for driving it to the site (a rural state park/campsite)  I would need someone  to go with me to help lift it into and out of the car  but easier  said than done to find  folks  for a late night (and possibly all night) session. Not a matter of physically not being able to lift  it but one wrong move and I blow a disc in my back and don't wanna go through that again.  Thus the motivation for a grab and go table top scope  that I can manage  by myself. 

[AlexK]

5 hours ago, tripleped said:

I do have a sturdy dolly cart that I use to get my 10" dob down the 3 steps out of the house using ramps so that works great. And  I could certainly get the dolly into the car.  The problem is getting the Dob's heavy base  into my SUV for driving it to the site (a rural state park/campsite)  I would need someone  to go with me to help lift it into and out of the car  but easier  said than done to find  folks  for a late night (and possibly all night) session. Not a matter of physically not being able to lift  it but one wrong move and I blow a disc in my back and don't wanna go through that again.  Thus the motivation for a grab and go table top scope  that I can manage  by myself. 

I see. I had my back failing after some strenuous errands at home too. So I know what you mean. But I'm also a skilled loader (learned all the tricks in the army). So when I feel it may fail me I'm wearing the waist compression band fixing the torso angle.

Given your input, I can suggest adding this gizmo to your dolly then:
https://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Max-5001-5083-Hydraulic-Motorcycle/dp/B06XNZ5GV6
Might be useful for other errands in the future as well.

For myself, I've built a dedicated wheeled 5 in 1 transforming transportation device: https://www.dobmod.com/search/label/cradle
The base is traveling from the flet to the car attached to 12" OTA trunnions (OTA is well secured in the cradle). After lifting the end of the cradle to the trunk of the SUV it's at about right level to simply disconnect it and slide to the side without any dangerous bending forward. To traverse stairs I'm lowering the cradle down and sliding it as a sled on its wide "skis".

[tripleped]

Interesting!!  I'm not very handy but that  amazon product might just  do the trick.  Definitely something to look into. I had envisioned something like that  but unable in  my brief searches to find anything so this is VERY helpful! Much appreciated! You might have  just given me the golden ticket!  Thank you so much and clear skies!

[AlexK]

You are welcome! Just search around that department. I saw the same without wheels (easier to bolt down to the existing dolly), as well as hand trucks with sliding lift (but like triple in the price).

Still seems on par with purchasing a new tiny telescope on a flymsy mount :)))) I plan to keep my 12" used all the way to building the cradle to observe with it while laying down in the moving alt/az mount when I wouldn't able to stand for 8 hours in a row at it anymore :)))

One more option is a folding hitch hoist for hunters: https://www.amazon.com/HME-Products-Truck-Hitch-Hoist/dp/B06ZZS6M9L/ I plan to install the hitch on my Subaru Forester one day (it's like $200 installed). There are standing hoists as well, but they are made much bulkier for stability.

Edited April 21, 2021 by AlexK

[Gfamily]

The most fun I've had recently was with a 72mm ED refractor on an AZGTi - under a dark sky.  The contrast was lovely to see, clusters stood out like diamonds on satin, nebulae were clearly visible (certainly compared to using my 127 Mak with 3x the focal length). Although the focal length is short I found I could use my shorter length eyepieces more easily than with the Mak, so I could as good views of planets in practise. 

The views at a dark sky easily beat those obtained from my 8" SCT at home.  So if you have a dark sky, a small refractor can be very satisfying. 

Of course, the very faintest and most challenging targets will be easier with a larger scope, but that's not what you need from a Grab and Go scope.

[AlexK]

7 hours ago, Gfamily said:

The most fun I've had recently was with a 72mm ED refractor on an AZGTi - under a dark sky.  The contrast was lovely to see, clusters stood out like diamonds on satin, nebulae were clearly visible (certainly compared to using my 127 Mak with 3x the focal length). Although the focal length is short I found I could use my shorter length eyepieces more easily than with the Mak, so I could as good views of planets in practise. 

The views at a dark sky easily beat those obtained from my 8" SCT at home.  So if you have a dark sky, a small refractor can be very satisfying. 

Of course, the very faintest and most challenging targets will be easier with a larger scope, but that's not what you need from a Grab and Go scope.

The Universe is full of joy without any aids indeed. But my 12" IS my grab-and-go for over 12 years already (had a 16" truss, and a 10" sonotube, but the 12" 1:5 steel OTA is the ideal all-around sweet-spot for me). Not looking for any downshifting for at least 20 years ahead. But may go higher for sure! Tough targets or easy eye candies, all looking simply breathtaking in it, with plethora of interstellar-space-flyby-like fine details to actually "observe", not just "detect", especially with 100 deg AFOV eyepieces. But I do love to peer through the 70mm refractor in my finderscope shoe on top of it too instead of through binoculars. I.d.k. prob. I had too much small refractors' views in my youth already, all the way to the stationary Pro-High-End (of 80es) 150mm Zeiss Coude apochromat... :))))