SHO or HOO Palette with OSC Dual Narrowband Filters - How to??

[smr]

Hi,

I'm trying to go for a tri or bi colour image with my first light data from my 2600MC Pro and Optolong L-eNhance Filter but I'm not sure on the work flow.

I use Photoshop only. I have downloaded Annie's Actions. In PS I split the R, G and B channels and then stretch them all a bit and save them as individual images. I then reopen the stacked data as is (rgb) and stretch that. Then using Annie's Actions there is a bi colour or Hubble palette action. It asks for Ha, SII,  OIII data, which out ot the split R, G, B do I assign to each filter?

Or if its more doable I would like to create a bi colour image, red and blue or similar, or orangey blue etc.

Thanks for any help.

 

[smr]

Anyone? I can't believe there isn't a clear tutorial on how to do this in Photoshop. It all seems to be either in APP or Pixinsight.

I'm pretty sure it can be done in Photoshop as I have found one tutorial on it but it jumps around far too much and is very confusing(infuriating!).

[Sp@ce_d]

Not sure about PS.  I was playing around in PI with my first light subs from the ASI2600MC & IDAS-NBZ under full moon at the weekend.. I googled "map OSC to narrowband" there's some interesting different approaches & some threads on cloudy nights worth having a look through if you haven't seen them. You could apply the same approach as one would normally process SHO mono in PS by splitting out the channels as described in some of those threads.

 

Of course if you haven't already seen it, this is the one I followed when I used to use PS many many Moons ago

http://bf-astro.com/hubblep.htm

Edited March 2, 2021 by Sp@ce_d
Added link for PS Hubble process work flow

[davew]

I don't know of any tutorials in PS to do SHO processing with that particular filter mainly because SII is cut off entirely ! What you can do in PS if you want the gold colour and blue colour is this - Image - adjustments - selective colour and in the red colour ( top one ) change the Magenta to -100 and increase the yellow to +100. Bang Gold  Totally false but there you go.

If you want the old look of false RGB then split the channels into R, G and B, delete the G, create a B copy and put it where the G went and reassemble into RGB.

There are other ways too I'm sure.

Annie's actions as far as I can remember just uses proper narrowband images when creating a false RGB or Hubble.

I thought that filter created a narrowband look all by itself ? Is that not so ?

Dave.

Edit to rearrange a few words !! 

Edited March 2, 2021 by davew

[smr]

1 hour ago, Sp@ce_d said:

Not sure about PS.  I was playing around in PI with my first light subs from the ASI2600MC & IDAS-NBZ under full moon at the weekend.. I googled "map OSC to narrowband" there's some interesting different approaches & some threads on cloudy nights worth having a look through if you haven't seen them. You could apply the same approach as one would normally process SHO mono in PS by splitting out the channels as described in some of those threads.

 

Of course if you haven't already seen it, this is the one I followed when I used to use PS many many Moons ago

http://bf-astro.com/hubblep.htm

Thanks for the reply. Yes there does seem to be a lot of different tutorials and techniques but none so much on just doing things in PS. As I said I did find one in PS which is exactly what I need but the tutorial jumps around too much and I need to follow everything completely with clear explanations on each step, it's no good making a video tutorial and then skipping ahead and not explaining why a layer which was there before you fast forwarded the video is not there now!

This is why when I do tutorials I literally explain every single mouse click and don't fast forward anything.

Is that link applicable to OSC dual narrowband data because I have had a look at it but it seems to be applicable to the Mono Narrowband method?

[smr]

15 minutes ago, davew said:

I don't know of any tutorials in PS to do SHO processing with that particular filter mainly because SII is cut off entirely ! What you can do in PS if you want the gold colour and blue colour is this - Image - adjustments - selective colour and in the red colour ( top one ) change the Magenta to -100 and increase the yellow to +100. Bang Gold  Totally false but there you go.

If you want the old look of false RGB then split the channels into R, G and B, delete the G, create a B copy and put it where the G went and reassemble into RGB.

There are other ways too I'm sure.

Annie's actions as far as I can remember just uses proper narrowband images when creating a false RGB or Hubble.

I thought that filter created a narrowband look all by itself ? Is that not so ?

Dave.

Edit to rearrange a few words !! 

No it doesn't create a narrowband image, if I stretch the stacked image it's just red. I'd like to be able to create bi colour images though, for instance like the Rosette where the outer nebulosity is red and the inner nebulosity has that lovely blue look.

It's possible but there's just no clear method described anywhere as to how to go about this workflow in PS. The frustrating thing is that I'm pretty sure it's possible.

[rnobleeddy]

The dual band filter splits Ha to the R channel and spreads O across G and B. So you can't create SHO images because you don't have S data, but you can create images with H and O.

 

I tended to separate R,G,B then combine G and B, but I'd didn't use PS.

 

The problem is that, for whatever reason, it seems hard to collect a lot of O data with there filters. The veil look stunning and is strongly dual colour, but almost everything else was just a shade of red. This came up before, and another user had better success with longer integration times in darker skies, so I'd start by splitting the data, then stretching the O data to see what you've got!

[smr]

37 minutes ago, rnobleeddy said:

The dual band filter splits Ha to the R channel and spreads O across G and B. So you can't create SHO images because you don't have S data, but you can create images with H and O.

 

I tended to separate R,G,B then combine G and B, but I'd didn't use PS.

 

The problem is that, for whatever reason, it seems hard to collect a lot of O data with there filters. The veil look stunning and is strongly dual colour, but almost everything else was just a shade of red. This came up before, and another user had better success with longer integration times in darker skies, so I'd start by splitting the data, then stretching the O data to see what you've got!

Thanks, it's splitting the data correctly that I'm not sure about though. 

In Photoshop if I open the stacked image, and click on Channels > Split Channels, it opens the R, G and B as Greyscale images in separate tabs. 

[Sp@ce_d]

Extracting Red and Green channels will give you the Ha & OIII as near as. Then you could try combining them to create a synthetic 3rd channel.. you'll have to experiment, 30 - 70% blend I've seen mentioned. One of the PS actions had a synthetic channel action, can't remember if it was Annies. Then try process those as SHO.

I think it very much depends on the target how effective these filters will be. The target will need to be quite strong in OIII to show through as Ha is dominant in most. I just about always have to capture much more OIII & SII with the mono cameras to balance for a decent SHO. You'll probably have a better result with HOO.  I'm wondering about trying some planetary nebulas, a lot are strong in OIII. I got my OSC really to supplement my Mono for RGB ie. galaxy season, so getting the filter was more out of interest than dedicated NB imaging.

[Stuf1978]

On 02/03/2021 at 09:51, smr said:

Hi,

I'm trying to go for a tri or bi colour image with my first light data from my 2600MC Pro and Optolong L-eNhance Filter but I'm not sure on the work flow.

I use Photoshop only. I have downloaded Annie's Actions. In PS I split the R, G and B channels and then stretch them all a bit and save them as individual images. I then reopen the stacked data as is (rgb) and stretch that. Then using Annie's Actions there is a bi colour or Hubble palette action. It asks for Ha, SII,  OIII data, which out ot the split R, G, B do I assign to each filter?

Or if its more doable I would like to create a bi colour image, red and blue or similar, or orangey blue etc.

Thanks for any help.

 

I've also been looking for a tutorial on how to do this exclusively in photoshop but as you mentioned everything seems to be geared toward PixInsight and APP and the couple of tutorials out there aren't that great. If you have figured out how to do it I'd love to know  

[ollypenrice]

What you'll get from the filter is an approximation of the HOO palette but you'll have the blue as well. If you discard your blue channel you'll also discard a good part of your OIII. And you haven't isolated the SII at capture. (I don't know how much of it gets into the red channel at all with the filter in question. I don't think what you are aiming to do is possible because NB imaging relies on isolating the separate gasses' emissions.

If you do want to re-assign colour channels in Ps it's easy. Split the channels into three greyscale images, R and G and B.. Take one of these and go to Image-Mode and convert it to RGB mode. It will still look just the same - greyscale - because all the new channels are exactly equal. But if you split the channels you can go to Merge Channels, choose RGB mode, and then put whatever channel you like in each channel. You can put your red layer into blue or whatever you like.

However, you don't have narrowband data so, personally, I think you'd be far better off working with the filter as intended.

Olly

[gorann]

I am using an IDAS NBX Oiii&Ha filter with my ASI2600MC. I think that filter is similar to your L-eNhance. I usually just process it as a regular RGB image (mainly in PS) and do not process the channels separately. I find i quite easy that way. Separating the channels will probably risk messing up star colours. You can allways colour balance it by using curves on the separate colours. Here is a recent example from my images (taken with a RASA 8, details on my Astrobin page):

Edited March 9, 2021 by gorann

[smr]

An Astrophotographer on astrobin has an image of the Soul Nebula taken with the L-enhance filter and an OSC (294MC Pro)

This is the kind of look I wanted to try and process, a seperation in colours so not everything is red. In PS I still don't know how to do this. Do I open the original TIFF and split the channels, if so they're all greyscale etc. and then which do I combine etc. etc.

His entire work flow is here but it's all in PixInSight.  https://photo.m-j-s.net/blog/2020/02/ic-1848-bicolor-workflow/

 

I'm comfortable stretching data and levels adjusting and using colour tools, saturation, colour levels, colour balance etc. it's just all the combining and extracting of Ha and OIII etc. to begin with where I am still stuck. 

If anyone can help so that I canunderstand the whole workflow concept I'll be doing a PS tutorial for anyone else stuck with it!

If anyone wants to see whether my data can be processed into something remotely similar you can have a look at the stacked integration here - 7 hours and 15 minutes on the Soul Nebula.  Soul Nebula Calibrated 7h15m.TIF

 

 

 

 

[gorann]

Before you make it too complicated, have you tried by starting off by just processing it as an RGB image? If you think red is too dominant you can then work of the color curves separately in PS (in curves where you select one colour channel at at time), for example suppressing red and bringing up blue. Some object of course have almost all the emission in red except for the stars but for the Soul Nebula there will be quite a lot of blue signal. This is what it looked like for me (RASA 8 and ASI2600MC with NBX filter). Only 60 min data so quite noisy. Processed as an RGB image in PS.

[smr]

1 hour ago, gorann said:

Before you make it too complicated, have you tried by starting off by just processing it as an RGB image? If you think red is too dominant you can then work of the color curves separately in PS (in curves where you select one colour channel at at time), for example suppressing red and bringing up blue. Some object of course have almost all the emission in red except for the stars but for the Soul Nebula there will be quite a lot of blue signal. This is what it looked like for me (RASA 8 and ASI2600MC with NBX filter). Only 60 min data so quite noisy. Processed as an RGB image in PS.

Very nice ^

This was my best processing effort with 7 hours, and full Moon so not ideal conditions...

 

I probably should make the Nebula a bit brighter...