SW EvoStar ED Pro Series for visual only

[duncanjameshill]

I know that there are many discussions comparing the ED Pro series, but they mainly seem to be about the scopes' suitability for astrophotography. I'm keen to try out a refractor for DSO visual, with the possibility of AP at a later date (when the budget allows).

The consensus seems to be that the 80ED DS-Pro is a great beginners scope for AP but is that true also for visual?

The cost of an 80ED DS-Pro with HEQ5 GoTo mount comes in under budget (£1,500) but is it suitable for visual? The 120ED DS-Pro, I guess, will be great for visual but I think needs a bigger mount if I was to take up AP later on (maybe an EQ6-R?) which puts the cost somewhere near £2,500.

I would go to this cost if I was sure it was the best option, but if the 80 or 100ED DS-Pro is suitable for visual, then I would prefer to stay in budget.

Any advice on these scopes would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, I'm also hoping to add a Sky-Watcher Skymax 180 PRO at a later date, so which ever mount I buy needs to be suitable for this too. Any thoughts on this scope?!?!?!

Thanks,

Duncan.

[Jiggy 67]

I have recently taken delivery of a 100ED after a 3 month wait. I’ve been out twice with it. I’m no expert on the intricacies of refractors. 

 I only do visual and I also have an 8” reflector. I found the 100ED to be excellent visually, no chromatic aberration that I noticed due to the ED glass and it was great on double stars with lovely sharp images. It hasn’t got the aperture of the reflector so, in my light polluted skies, it won’t be my first choice for dso’s but it works perfectly well for visual use and will work well with double stars, planetary nebulae and brighter dso’s........and then you can turn to the dark side and take up AP

This was my first night with the 100 ED

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Jiggy 67

[mikeDnight]

Hi Duncan,

The 80ED Pro is a very nice scope for visual, but the 100ED is better, while the 120ED better still, especially for DSO's.  Trying to go down the visual and imaging route might mess with your head. The 80ED would make a good imaging instrument for DSO's, while at the same time acting as a good general grab and go visual scope. The 100ED is a bit on the long side to act as a wide field imaging scope and is better suited to visual, but it can still be used to image. 

[johninderby]

3 hours ago, duncanjameshill said:

I

Oh, I'm also hoping to add a Sky-Watcher Skymax 180 PRO at a later date, so which ever mount I buy needs to be suitable for this too. Any thoughts on this scope?!?!?!

Thanks,

Duncan.

While the Skymax180 is a popular and very good scope it is slow to cool down and dews up easily. I had one but replaced it with a CC8” Not much bigger or heavier but cools down quickly, no dewing problems and has a fixed primary and a proper crayford focuser. Will take higher magnification as well.

Would not buy a new Skymax180 while the CC isn’t that much more. If I really wanted a 180 would only buy one second hand 180 as they can be had for a good price.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes/stellalyra-8-f12-m-lrs-classical-cassegrain-telescope-ota.html

Edited February 2, 2021 by johninderby

[duncanjameshill]

3 hours ago, Jiggy 67 said:

I have recently taken delivery of a 100ED after a 3 month wait. I’ve been out twice with it. I’m no expert on the intricacies of refractors. 

 I only do visual and I also have an 8” reflector. I found the 100ED to be excellent visually, no chromatic aberration that I noticed due to the ED glass and it was great on double stars with lovely sharp images. It hasn’t got the aperture of the reflector so, in my light polluted skies, it won’t be my first choice for dso’s but it works perfectly well for visual use and will work well with double stars, planetary nebulae and brighter dso’s........and then you can turn to the dark side and take up AP.

 

 

 

It's good to get feedback from someone who has one of these scopes, thanks. I think I might also be in for a long wait after I've ordered too 😒.

[duncanjameshill]

3 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

Hi Duncan,

The 80ED Pro is a very nice scope for visual, but the 100ED is better, while the 120ED better still, especially for DSO's.  Trying to go down the visual and imaging route might mess with your head. The 80ED would make a good imaging instrument for DSO's, while at the same time acting as a good general grab and go visual scope. The 100ED is a bit on the long side to act as a wide field imaging scope and is better suited to visual, but it can still be used to image. 

I think maybe I'm trying to cover too many bases in one and should forget about imaging for now - really it's just the visual I'm after. I would love for someone to tell me the 120ED could be described as a grab and go........?

[duncanjameshill]

2 hours ago, johninderby said:

While the Skymax180 is a popular and very good scope it is slow to cool down and dews up easily. I had one but replaced it with a CC8” Not much bigger or heavier but cools down quickly, no dewing problems and has a fixed primary and a proper crayford focuser. Will take higher magnification as well.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes/stellalyra-8-f12-m-lrs-classical-cassegrain-telescope-ota.html

Thanks, I'll look into that. In honesty, I hadn't decided 100% on the Skymax, but I am hoping for some sort of Mak or SCT to compliment the refractor. How does anyone decide on which scope to buy?!?!?!

[John]

5 minutes ago, duncanjameshill said:

I think maybe I'm trying to cover too many bases in one and should forget about imaging for now - really it's just the visual I'm after. I would love for someone to tell me the 120ED could be described as a grab and go........?

On an alt-azimuth mount it's a readily portable scope and quick to set up . I can pick this whole setup up and move it around the garden. I take it out of the house in 2 parts (tube + mount / tripod). Cool down time is about 20 minutes for best high power viewing.

Whether that is fully "grab and go" depends on the definition of that term I suppose. There is not an official definition !

 

[johninderby]

I’ve had an 8” SCT as well as the Skymax 180 before getting the CC8”. Cools down about as quickly as a refractor and no dew problems are what I really like.  Sharper on axis than the SCT. Also has a fixed primary unlike the mak and SCT so no primary mirror movement. Uses a proper crayford focuser which again is nice to have. Just a nice scope to use.

Have recently bought the CC6” which I use as a grab’n’go setup. 

So many good scopes out there nowadays it can indeed be hard to choose just one. 😁

I have the TS CC8” which is identical to the StellaLyra except for the colour.

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by johninderby

[duncanjameshill]

2 minutes ago, John said:

On an alt-azimuth mount it's a readily portable scope and quick to set up . I can pick this whole setup up and move it around the garden. I take it out of the house in 2 parts (tube + mount / tripod). Cool down time is about 20 minutes for best high power viewing.

Whether that is fully "grab and go" depends on the definition of that term I suppose. There is not an official definition !

 

That is what I hoped (and feared) to hear 😁. I was under the impression I would need a hefty mount for the ED120? I'm thinking about an SW equatorial but, obviously, not sure which one yet. Costs go up so quickly but I'm worried about under buying and having to upgrade soon after buying.

[duncanjameshill]

8 minutes ago, johninderby said:

I’ve had an 8” SCT as well as the Skymax 180 before getting the CC8”. Cools down about as quickly as a refractor and no dew problems are what I really like.  Sharper on axis than the SCT. Also has a fixed primary unlike the mak and SCT so no primary mirror movement. Uses a proper crayford focuser which again is nice to have. Just a nice scope to use.

Have recently bought the CC6” which I use as a grab’n’go setup. 

So many good scopes out there nowadays it can indeed be hard to choose just one. 😁

I have the TS CC8” which is identical to the StellaLyra except for the colour.

 

FLO actually have the CC 8" in stock at the moment. More decisions 😂

[johninderby]

Wouldn’t you like to win the lottery and call up FLO and say send me one of every scope you have. 😁😁😁

[Ricochet]

6 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Wouldn’t you like to win the lottery and call up FLO and say send me one of every scope you have. 😁😁😁

Two. One for each eye 😉

[John]

16 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Wouldn’t you like to win the lottery and call up FLO and say send me one of every scope you have. 😁😁😁

Just at the moment, that might not be many

 

[John]

29 minutes ago, duncanjameshill said:

That is what I hoped (and feared) to hear 😁. I was under the impression I would need a hefty mount for the ED120? I'm thinking about an SW equatorial but, obviously, not sure which one yet. Costs go up so quickly but I'm worried about under buying and having to upgrade soon after buying.

For visual observing the Skytee II or Giro Ercole (in my pic) does very well. An EQ5 is fine or Vixen GP. For imaging something heavier duty though. 

I have put the scope on an AZ4 and it was OK for low to medium magnifications. Bit wobbly at higher powers though.

 

[johninderby]

3 minutes ago, John said:

Just at the moment, that might not be many

 

I could accept a delayed deivery. Just send a few a week for the next year or  so.  😁😁😁

Edited February 2, 2021 by johninderby

[mikeDnight]

1 hour ago, duncanjameshill said:

I think maybe I'm trying to cover too many bases in one and should forget about imaging for now - really it's just the visual I'm after. I would love for someone to tell me the 120ED could be described as a grab and go........?

Well, I suppose it depends on your definition of grab and go!  From my point of view, the 120ED pro is a grab & go scope, as its relatively lightweight  and doesn't need a hefty mount. An AZ4 would carry one as would a standard EQ5. And its a great all round scope that can give breathtaking views of rich star fields and nebulae, while at the other extreme can pack a hell of a punch on the Moon and planets, and double stars. It really is a class act that could probably keep you happy for a lifetime.

Edited February 2, 2021 by mikeDnight

[Peter Drew]

I personally wouldn't buy any refractor primarily for visual DSO observation, they are far too small in the affordable price range.  A good setup would be  a 10" Newtonian for visual plus a 80ED for grab & go and future AP.      🙂

[duncanjameshill]

1 hour ago, Peter Drew said:

I personally wouldn't buy any refractor primarily for visual DSO observation, they are far too small in the affordable price range.  A good setup would be  a 10" Newtonian for visual plus a 80ED for grab & go and future AP.      🙂

I've just sold a SW classic 200P dob as I just couldn't get on with it. It was my first scope so I'm sure the issue was with me, as it seems to be well rated for beginners. I felt like a change of scope would get me back outside and I've read good things about refractors. I'm hoping that the next purchase (scope and mount) will be a keeper which I can add to in the future. 

[Peter Drew]

32 minutes ago, duncanjameshill said:

I've just sold a SW classic 200P dob as I just couldn't get on with it. It was my first scope so I'm sure the issue was with me, as it seems to be well rated for beginners. I felt like a change of scope would get me back outside and I've read good things about refractors. I'm hoping that the next purchase (scope and mount) will be a keeper which I can add to in the future. 

I'm sure you'll enjoy a decent refractor, I certainly do as I have several including a 150ED and a 220mm achromat but anything less just doesn't cut it for me on DSO's.  You can't change physics and light grasp is the name of the game for DSO's

[F15Rules]

Hi Duncan,

I can sense your confusion, and it's totally understandable..all three 80mm, 100mm and 120mm refractors you mention are excellent in their own way, and can deliver great views.

Now, part way through the thread, and probably in the light of all the (very useful) advice you've received, you seem to be leaning towards the "Visual for the foreseeable future" frame of mind? If that is in fact the case, it should make your decision a bit easier..

First, I would eliminate the 80mm from the list. For mainly visual it can't compete with the other two. As Peter Drew said, "Aperture wins for DSOs" (and for most objects, actually). However, both the 100mm and 120mm scopes will actually deliver excellent views of some DSOs, such as M42, M13 etc as well as lovely sharp, contrasty views of planets, double stars, Moon, Clusters etc etc.

In absolute terms the 120mm would be a worthwhile increase in light grasp versus the ED100, at the expense, to some extent, of real portability..

Now, in terms of future proofing in case you do end up wanting to try AP,  the choice of mount becomes more critical than perhaps of the scope..as a visual only observer, I'm not the best person to advise on the mount, but you do tend to need a much beefier mount for AP than for visual.

I think you'd need at least an HEQ5 for a 100mm scope, and an NEQ6 or equivalent for an ED120..if that's wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. If I'm right, then you'd probably need to allow a budget for the mount of up to say c £1200-£1400 if you were thinking of AP with a 120mm refractor?..and possibly factor in a focuser upgrade or motorisation..

So, I think a good compromise worth considering would be a 100mm scope now, mounted on a heftier mount..you can't really have too solid a mount for any scope, unless portability is a higher priority for you, and then, when you were ready, you could sell your ED100 (they sell VERY quickly!) and put the proceeds towards an ED120 - and perhaps the F7.5 ED120 would be better for AP than the F9 of the ED100?

Whatever you choose, I wish you good luck!

Dave

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by F15Rules
Additional text info

[KP82]

From these 3 Evostar EDs, the 80mm is the most suitable for starting ap due to its smaller size, lower weight and shorter focal length.The relative compactness of the ED80 means even a basic EQ5 Pro is adequate (of course the beefier the mount the better for imaging if your budget allows). Its shorter focal length coupled with the 0.85x reducer will produce a larger FoV suitable for many DSOs, and a larger image scale easier on tracking errors especially if you plan to go unguided initially.

However for visual it's the other way around. Under 5" size and seeing condition have a much smaller impact when comparing performance of scopes, here aperture rules not only for DSOs, but also planets, doubles, etc. So the ED120 is the best option. You will need at least an EQ5 for stability at high mag.

The ED100 sits in a kind of awkward middle ground for your requirements. It loses to the ED120 on DSO visual due to 44% less light grasp and its f/9 focal ratio is the slowest among these three for imaging. However 4" is a good compromise in size if you just want one scope. And for that I'd suggest you take a look at other 4" f/7 ED doublets offered by Altair, TS Optics and WO. They are better multi-purpose scopes than the f/9 ED100.

Personally if Skymax 180 were going to be part of my collection soon, I'd go for ED80.

Edited February 3, 2021 by KP82

[duncanjameshill]

Thanks for all the advice, it's really appreciated and has helped me towards some decisions.

I think I'm going for the NEQ6 Pro or maybe a EQ6-R Pro if I can re-budget (or re-re-budget 😫). I feel this will be an investment that I hopefully won't need to change for a long time, regardless of scope or AP.

Now the scope. I suppose I might be better off with a reflector of some sort, but I can't shake this bug for a refractor. So, the 120ED DS Pro it is.

Now, I found out last night that you can actually get home observatory domes!!! I'm already formulating some plans to modify the shed!

[Carl Au]

I have own  the ED100 and ED 120 scopes. The ED100 was easily mounted on an AZ4, rock steady. The ED120 is a much longer and heavier scope so was mounted on a Giro III with an extension to get the hight for comfortable viewing. The ED100 has less CA than the one ED120 in my experience. The additional cost of the mount and scope for the bigger of the two is a hell of a hike.

I really do think not everyone on here gets not everyone has the same levels of disposable income. An extra 6 or 700 quid is a deal breaker for many.

[duncanjameshill]

This is an expensive hobby, that's for sure. If I appeared flippant about the costs here, I apologise - that was not my intent. I've spent a long time looking at what could be the right scope for me next, knowing that it would be a significant cost increase to previous equipment. One of my biggest concerns is that the money I've saved goes on something that doesn't give what I was hoping for or needs to be replaced in a short time. I would not consider that money well spent.

Again, apologies, I didn't mean to be dismissive about the costs involved here.