Double Stack 50 or Single 60??

[Sunshine]

A double stacked 50mm or, a single stacked 60

All other accessories aside, I am aware of which blocking filters favor either visual or imaging, which one would you buy?  assuming you want it for both visual and imaging.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Sunshine

[Highburymark]

For me - double stack 50. No contest. Unless you can see the possibility of a double stacked 60 in your future?

[Kitsunegari]

If i was you, i would not bother at all with either of the 50mm or 60mm lunt scopes.  Get a daystar quark and attach it on your 115mm triplet.

 

Daystar seems to have sorted out most of the problems with the quark, and it really is not much more expensive.  Just save you pennies for an extra month.      (im about to sell my 50mm etalon because it just is not fun anymore for me after switching up to 127mm.)

 

Just my two cents.     Nothing beats high magnfication visual h-alpha,  and with a full disk system you are just gonna be begging for more power almost immediately.  

 

Side note,  since you live in canada - the lunt filters freezing on you is gonna be an issue.  (thermal drift)

 

The daystar filter accounts for that cold stuff.

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Kitsunegari

[Sunshine]

On 03/12/2020 at 22:22, Kitsunegari said:

If i was you, i would not bother at all with either of the 50mm or 60mm lunt scopes.  Get a daystar quark and attach it on your 115mm triplet.

 

Daystar seems to have sorted out most of the problems with the quark, and it really is not much more expensive.  Just save you pennies for an extra month.      (im about to sell my 50mm etalon because it just is not fun anymore for me after switching up to 127mm.)

 

Just my two cents.     Nothing beats high magnfication visual h-alpha,  and with a full disk system you are just gonna be begging for more power almost immediately.  

 

Side note,  since you live in canada - the lunt filters freezing on you is gonna be an issue.  (thermal drift)

 

The daystar filter accounts for that cold stuff.

 

OOOOOH you've struck a nerve mentioning the Quark, I have been so curious about them for years but, I have read about QC  issues and nightmares about trying 3 before getting a good one. A couple of years ago I foolishly sold my Lunt 60 for a large dob  was enamored with, only to sell the dob because it was just too big. Now I find myself  yearning for H-alpha again and I wont make the same mistake again, selling it no way.  Do you think my 115 will provide some smashing views with a Quark? I guess full disc views will be out of the question with 805mm correct? I will need an ERF filter for the diagonal but aside from that not much more correct? the prospect of a quark and a 115 together is exciting I must admit. One thing I see as a drawback is the size of the 115, it is not a grab and go which is what I enjoyed with my old Lunt, quick peeks at the setting sun after a days work then back inside. It seems a Quark will provide second to none closeups of proms but requires a bit more work, maybe one look and i'd be hooked. As for freezing weather, that's only an issue from mid Dec to march and even then its not daily.  Pricewise. the quark is roughly half the price of the pressure tuned 60 with B1200 filter and feather touch focuser i was looking at, I could easily order a Quark tomorrow, this is so tempting, maybe I should just say heck with it and jump in.

[Highburymark]

No doubt, if you get a good Quark, it would outperform any small Lunt. That’s a reasonably big ‘if’ though, even today, after Daystar seems to be delivering greater consistency than a few years ago. My LS50DS and LS60DS both beat my Quark for surface detail, but for proms the Quark (with a 100mm refractor) is incredible. 

The downsides, apart from variable quality and bandwidth are well known: Need for a power source, 10 mins warming up time, high magnifications with the internal barlow which means you need excellent seeing. Yes, it’s really handy to have a dedicated solar scope that works immediately - but in practice the Quark is pretty easy to set up.

It’s a difficult decision. A lot of people love full disc views, but if you can track down a great Quark, then it would be superb in your lovely apo.

[Kitsunegari]

Maybe we can get some more people to offer some intellectual arguments about this,   because realistically im going to also be buying a quark.

 

The lunt scopes are certainly well worth every penny,  and i have literally owned 7 of them looking for a "unicorn" 

 

both lunt and coronado are known for slipping out some government equipment to the public and the last 20 years really have provoked the fact that 10% of people that buy an h-alpha etalon get one that is superior to all others in the world.

 

Then comes the quark,  same deal.  You are going to get a school boys toy, or a government graded scientific instrument.     It literally is a lottery.     

 

 

 

 

Against all observation reports, and recommendations to others.   I would say get the quark, because when it comes down to it in the end you can always resell it for 90% of its value.  Especially now that solar acitivity is coming back rapidly.   

 

 

 

 

The quark is absolutely capable of a full disk image.       So now ask yourself,  do you want to be stuck with nothing but full disk and moderate  magnfication?   Or do you want to actually see a sunspot, and its penumbral filaments.  

 

MY arguement is this. 

 

All lunt telescopes are great,  but at entry level they are prone to quality issues like coronado.   

All daystar products are great,  but at entry level they are prone to quality issues like lunt and coronado. 

 

So when we consider this,  the following statement must be relied on .      "entry level solar telescopes are toys, and the quality of the product is designed to satisfy a hobby"

 

There is a pattern of, "you get what you pay for"  

 

If you look at the LS80,  this is where you get an advanced quality .   It is pure instrument at this level, and the price reflects that.    Still the same piece of glass, still the same coatings, still the same metal bits.   But exponential in price because of performance.   

Being  realistic here.  It has nothing to do with the 80mm objective,  or the crayford focuser, or the aluminum tube.  Not even the pressure tuner.     The price is reflective of that very nice etalon inside of it.

 

The quark is moderate level,   while still considered entry.      The quark is certainly capable of ruining your opinions about lunt and coronado entry level products.

 

 

 

So with my opinion well stated,  i tip my cap to you sir.   You have a helluva a decision to make before those x-flares start coming our way 

 

 

 

I hope some others on here can help you decide.

 

 

[Kitsunegari]

One more very important piece of information to always cling onto.

 

Your ability to take pictures does not reflect the performance of the scope.  Your visual ability has nothing to do with the performance of the scope.

 

Like all things in life, there is always going to be someone with better skills and that is very important to understand in the world of solar observation.

 

Your eyes cannot tell how bad an h-alpha scope performs,  like a camera will immediately let you know there is something wrong. .    (some people may have some unique ability like colorblindness, but they do not have monochrome camera vision with sensitivity control.  So do not believe for one second they are better than a camera, regardless of how well known they are in a forum.)   There is an exception or two, where the scope will visually appear damaged.       Yes a skilled human can describe a poor performing scope and a great performing scope, absolutely.  But the camera will say "its garbage" every time.

 

 

With all these arguments,  Now look at these pictures from a quark.  Absolutely phenomenal in my opinion, and is this an example of a government grade etalon slipping into the hands of an amateur?    Absolutely.     

 

 Realistically, you cannot just take word  of mouth on what to buy , and you absolutely cannot buy a solarscope based on pictures taken by somebody else.   The variance in all the telescopes is very exceptional.  The variance of personal ability and persistence is also exceptional.   Some people just do not try....

 

Home / Daystar Filters Public Images / DayStar Owner Images / Joe Sullivan | Daystar Filters Imaging Gallery

Now compare this one quark, with the much bigger lunt scope images.  You will see something that is going to alter your opinion.     

Gallery Of The Amazing Solar Anomalies | Lunt Solar Systems

 

there is only one company that supersedes the rest, always held the highest regard .  They are downright Nobel, and that company  is "solar scopes from isle of man".    

 

Once again,  it is very important to understand that the pictures taken by users may only reflect that they are skilled at image processing.      However at the same time, you can clearly see that after image processing;  this quark has proven  itself to be  equal to a lunt LS152.  (10,000$)

 

 

 

Get an idea of what to expect by the pictures taken by people with skill, then apply it to your opinion on what you want to see.   High magnification,   or low magnification.          Portability seems like something you want.   

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Kitsunegari

[Sunshine]

1 hour ago, Kitsunegari said:

I hope some others on here can help you decide.

I could sooner decide on either keeping my left or right arm lol. You have brought up a great point regarding the high magnification of Quarks and my local seeing trend. 

Aside from that i notice your user name reminds me of an X-file episode title.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Sunshine

[Davey-T]

Just about to return another defunct Quark to Daystar, supplied new March 2019.

Great piece of kit though when it works as advertised.

Dave

[Paul73]

Nothing wrong with a Quark when they are in song. The views are undeniably astonishing. Not sure that I would risk my hard earned cash though.... 

Paul

[Sunshine]

4 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

Not sure that I would risk my hard earned cash though.... 

 

2 hours ago, Davey-T said:

Just about to return another defunct Quark to Daystar, supplied new March 2019.

Oh no, looks like a Lunt it will be, this scares me.

[vlaiv]

4 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

 

Oh no, looks like a Lunt it will be, this scares me.

This might help you overcome "fear of the quark"

Want to have both full disk views, medium magnification and high power Ha viewing, all in one package?

Get quark combo. Quark combo is a bit different than regular quark in that it is:

1. a bit more expensive

2. does not have integrated barlow element

(less things for more money - perfect , isn't it )

What is the catch? Combo quark has a bit wider blocking filter and allows full disk views up to 1800mm of focal length. However, you yourself need to provide means for it to operate on F/15 or higher.

You have 805mm of FL natively, and let's say you want to do nice full disk views.

Get x2 telecentric amplifier like this one:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/explore-scientific-2x-3x-5x-barlow-focal-extender-125.html

With x2 telecentric, you'll be operating at 1610mm of FL - still within 1800mm, and you need to work at about F/15-F/20 - higher F should give you slight boost in contrast. How to make your scope be at F/20? Make 80mm aperture mask for example.

Now you have 80mm F/20 full disk capable solar scope for the price of 50mm unit.

Want to have higher power still? Add x3 telecentric and use it at full aperture. That will also be F/20 but you won't be able to do full disk any more.

In any case, you get the point, combo quark let's you dial in your own F/ratio and focal length, and can be used with small / cheap grab&go refractor in the same way - even simple achromatic doublet - something like 80mm F/8-F/10 will give you range of options for different magnifications and full disk included.

 

[Sunshine]

41 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

This might help you overcome "fear of the quark"

Want to have both full disk views, medium magnification and high power Ha viewing, all in one package?

Get quark combo. Quark combo is a bit different than regular quark in that it is:

1. a bit more expensive

2. does not have integrated barlow element

(less things for more money - perfect , isn't it )

What is the catch? Combo quark has a bit wider blocking filter and allows full disk views up to 1800mm of focal length. However, you yourself need to provide means for it to operate on F/15 or higher.

You have 805mm of FL natively, and let's say you want to do nice full disk views.

Get x2 telecentric amplifier like this one:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/explore-scientific-2x-3x-5x-barlow-focal-extender-125.html

With x2 telecentric, you'll be operating at 1610mm of FL - still within 1800mm, and you need to work at about F/15-F/20 - higher F should give you slight boost in contrast. How to make your scope be at F/20? Make 80mm aperture mask for example.

Now you have 80mm F/20 full disk capable solar scope for the price of 50mm unit.

Want to have higher power still? Add x3 telecentric and use it at full aperture. That will also be F/20 but you won't be able to do full disk any more.

In any case, you get the point, combo quark let's you dial in your own F/ratio and focal length, and can be used with small / cheap grab&go refractor in the same way - even simple achromatic doublet - something like 80mm F/8-F/10 will give you range of options for different magnifications and full disk included.

 

You are an astronomic encyclopedia, Sir.

I thought the combo Quark was only for high focal ratio scopes, many thanks! My fear does not lay in the quarks versatility but, it’s questionable reliability. All these options are great if it works like one would expect.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Sunshine

[Nigella Bryant]

60mm Lunt for sure and later get the double stack front etalon. I got my 60mm first second hand and then found a second hand 60mm front etalon a year later. Been fantastic and my most used scope.