Buying my daughter her first telescope

[DaveL59]

16 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

So the DX model may be better build quality but the telescope itself will be the same quality as the LT models? 

no the DX models will have better quality scopes too. The DX130 I don't think is a BJ type from a quick look at the specs tho I can't be certain there.

For the refractors, take the LT80 for example

Same all plastic focuser as my LT70. On the other hand the DX102 is very different

The focuser looks more substantial. Sad to see the same plastic diagonal pictured here tho so a better scope but mediocre accessories. Notice too the levers on the DX model for SloMo control, absent on the LT model other than the altitude control attached to the scope tube.

So the DX will be smoother to operate but then I'm comparing the LT80 at £179 to a DX102 at £349 so you would expect the DX to be a lot better 🙂 

[DaveL59]

30 minutes ago, Pixies said:

Celestron appear to have chosen a selection from their range of beginner - lower-intermediate scopes and added the StarSense setup to them.

StarSense is much more than a gimmick. It isn't a basic star-map app with a compass/accelerometer to detect direction. It is an actual plate-solving system, which uses the mirror in the phone holder to direct a view of the stars. The app analyses the star patterns and works out where it is facing. A few on SGL have bought the cheaper models, removed StarSense for their own scopes, and passed on the remaining scopes to family members. The app requires a license key that comes with the kit. I recon that if Celestron marketed the StarSense kit seperately, it'll make a killing.

 

So, if you really want StarSense, these scopes are what is available. If it's not that important (ie. you are happy to learn how to find things in the night sky and locate them in the scope yourself) you should be looking at other options. Although there are other GoTo systems available (at a price).

So true Pixies and I'm guessing only a few have tried out the scope supplied given the dearth of comments on it 😄 

For me I was curious and while I left the supplied accessories in the box other than the diagonal, I was pleasantly surprised. Using my TAL and Vixen eyepieces and the SVbony zooms the scope gave a creditable performance for such a low price point. Little false colour and quite sharp and I pushed it to x200 with reasonable views. The wobbles in the mount are the biggest detractor really, plastic focuser does work just fine but can be improved with a little DIY. Tempted to try mount it onto one of my EQ5's to give it a stable mount and see what it can really do, but then as it stands it's the easier of my gear to just pick up, plonk in the garden and start viewing so as a result I have used it quite a few times since it arrived given the brief non-cloudy periods between the endless rain lately.

I believe Celestron also do a more expensive starsense setup that's in-built to the mount using its own camera, or at least used to. A big up-step in the price curve tho.

[W0nderste]

32 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

So the DX model may be better build quality but the telescope itself will be the same quality as the LT models? 

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think the DX130 is Bird-Jones arrangement. I think the optics are also better along with the mount and focusser.  There is a FB group dedicated to the Starsense range and the images taken with DX130 seem far superior to the LT114/127

btw, it depends where you buy the LT range from, which determines which version you get.  Celestron sell the LT127 through dedicated astronomy stores, and the LT114 through camera stores. 

I can only speak from my experience about the Starsense part of the telescope.  Others on here seem to think the starsense is a great component (and I don't disagree with them), but when connected to the LT127 it's relatively pointless.  Aside from the 4000+ celestial targets the starsense gives you a list of top targets for that night dependant on location on time.  However apart from solar system bodies the list of nebula and galaxies were barely visible in the telescope.  It seems the people on here singing the praises of starsense have pulled the starsense bracket off and fixed it to a better scope.  It's a shame Celestron don't sell the starsense bracket/App seperately.

 I can only comment on the starsense as connected to the LT127 scope and I wouldn't recommend it personally.

[M40]

Hello Sluke321 and welcome to the forum. I can't offer any help on the scopes you are looking at but reading this topic about the star sense, it does seem to be more than interesting and a definite help, but.... can I suggest that you download an app to your phone now and when the skies finally give us all a break, go outside and look at the sky with your chosen app just to give you a clue as to what else can help. Stellarium is very good on the pc and I recommend downloading that, in saying that though, I have never tried it on the phone as I use sky guide simply because I find it easy, but there are lots of others to choose from. My point is, try not to get too hooked up on the star sense app and limit yourself to a particular type of telescope simply because of the app..... albeit it does sound very interesting 😎. 

Just to add, I am amazed that Holyhead has a high light pollution level, I would have put money on that being a dark area. 🤦‍♂️ Enjoy

[dweller25]

@Sluke321

One thing to consider is that you are spending quite a bit of money for Starsense but the apertures being discussed are not going to show much detail.

Perhaps It may be better to spend the money on a larger aperture scope that will show more detail ?

Bare in mind that even with a 10” scope a lot of deep sky objects look like fuzzy patches visually. You will not SEE anything like the images you find in magazines.

Edited November 10, 2020 by dweller25

[Tiny Clanger]

4 hours ago, Sluke321 said:

Hello all,

 

Looking to buy my daughter a first telescope for Christmas. I would like it to be a starter telescope but at the same time be good enough for the whole family to use without the need to upgrade too soon if everyone enjoys it.

From the research I have done I really like the Celestron starsense models as I like the way your smart phone can mount the the telescope and you can utilise the app the guide you to a whole host of stars and planets. I feel this would be perfect for my daughter as she will be able to use the app to pick out what she wants to see and use it to guide her (with me there too of course)

 

I have been looking at the following

Celestron Starsense LT 127AZ £200 approx 

Celestron Starsense LT 114AZ £200 approx

Celestron LT 80AZ £170 approx

My main question regarding these is why are the 127 and the 114 model priced the same? Surely the 114 should be cheaper than the 127? Is there something else lacking not immediately apparent?

 

I have looked at the starsense 130 AZ but the price jumps up to around £340 which seems a disproportionate increase? 
 

I have looked at other 130’s like the Celestron Astromaster 130 which is around £190 but I just worry that I won’t be able to use the Celestron phone app to help guide us to find all the stars and planets. 
 

One of the musts for me is a telescope that will be able to see the rings of Saturn.
 

Any help is greatly appreciate, If I’m approaching this the wrong way please let me know!  
 

 

 

Welcome , it's lovely to see your daughter's interest in astronomy being encouraged !

The easy answer to your question is ... there is no easy answer. 😟

Believe me, I've done a great deal of research on the cheaper end of the market , and the packaged 'scopes all have compromises in order to achieve a competitive price point.

So for instance, for around £200 you can get a very basic, simple dobsonian like the skywatcher 150 Heritage , which has an chunky MDF tabletop base, cheap finder ( replaceable) cheap eyepieces (ditto) a somewhat coarse focus arrangement (which can easily be improved with a bit of plumber's tape) no bells and whistles, but a 150mm (6" diameter) light collecting mirror. It's all about the optics, that's where the money went.

Or , same price point, one of the 'scopes you asked about , the starsense 127 , which has a mirror a slightly smaller 127mm across, similarly cheap starter eyepieces and finder ( quite probably identical to the skywatcher ones actually, as both brands are part of a company called Synta ) and somehow also manages to include a full height adjustable metal tripod with accessory tray, Alt-azimuth mount, Barlow lens , 'phone dock and the starsense app.

That appears to be a lot for the money, but you can be sure the tripod and head will be less sturdy and smooth working than is ideal, the 2x barlow will be optically poor and the jones-bird configuration is a cheap way to make a 'scope's focal length (and therefore magnification) greater whilst keeping the tube relatively and conveniently short . It involves an extra fixed lens in the focus tube, which is not an ideal arrangement, the extra glass reduces the sharpness of the image you see , and makes colimating ( accurately lining up) the mirrors difficult. I inherited a Celestron 114eq firstscope of this design, and whilst it looks the biz, sat on its lightweight tripod and eq mount it is a  disappointing 'scope to use. Apart from the Moon, not much else impresses, and it is just not sharp.

If the  starsense app is what you feel the most important feature for you , then I'll echo what pixies said : you are limited to the packages celestron provides it with. The jump  in price to one of the more traditional go to packages like a https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-startravel-102-az-gte.html  would be well over your budget. You could always put your money into a more basic 'scope and try this app : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lavadip.skeye&hl=en_GB which works slightly differently, but would help you navigate the night sky,  is not tied to Celestron and those specific packages. In that case I'd absolutely take the advice of FLO on their page https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html

which has several choices around your budget. They will no doubt be out of stock at the moment, but FLO will answer your questions about likely delivery dates (or anything else 'scope related for that matter) quickly and as accurately as they can, and you can place an order to reserve what you want . That's what I did, and my new toy should be arriving this week, after a month of suspense !

Good luck with your search and decision

Heather

PS, before committing to a starsense  app 'scope, do check to ensure it is compatible with your 'phone, and maybe your daughter's 'phone too if she has one : you can download it as a basic sky atlas tool before getting the code (with a telescope)  to unlock the 'push to' facility ,so can check it out now.

 

 

[Tiny Clanger]

Ah, several post have appeared whilst I was searching out links and info: sorry to repeat what others already said , and it seems it may be that the 130 is not a jones - bird (or bird-jones, same thing  !) 'scope, in which case it may be a bit better than I thought.

My choice of 'scopes back in the summer was a heritage 150 by the way, and whilst it is not the ideal tool for looking at planets, the first thing I saw with it on the night I got it, was Saturn, tiny, but like a midget Xmas tree bauble, rings and all, hanging in the dark. It was worth £200 just for that ! Now I'm hooked, and have a 127 maksutov on order to add to the armory.

[Second Time Around]

You may have seen that I've just bought 2 different scopes for different youngsters (see the recent topic "Best budget scope for a 5 year old").

For the older one in the country it was a 130mm table top Dobsonian.  For the 2 in London, including a 6 year old, who needed a lightweight scope it was a 70mm Starsense Explorer refractor.

I was so impressed with the Starsense Explorer that I bought another of the 70mm refractors for my own use, and adapted the technology to my other bigger and better scopes.  However, I kept the 70mm refractor as it's so lightweight, and being somewhat disabled there are nights when this is all I can manage.

Like others who've tried it, I believe that Starsense Explorer is a game changer for beginners.  It would be too for the more experienced if it had a larger database. 

The technology is available only as a package with a scope, not standalone.  Unfortunately, the scopes themselves are all pretty basic, although some of them represent good value for money as the extra cost for the technology is modest.  This doesn't however apply to be more expensive ones, where you pay a lot for Starsense Explorer.

As far as I know there are 6 Starsense Explorer models that have been offered.  4 were released to begin with, then discontinued in the UK and replaced with 2 others.

The first 4 were:

80mm f/11.25 refractor

102mm f/6.5 refractor

114mm f/9 Bird-Jones reflector

130mm f/5 reflector

The 2 new UK models are:

70mm f/10 refractor

127mm f/7.87 Bird Jones reflector

As others have advised, I'd avoid the Bird-Jones designs.  This is because they're difficult to collimate, something that isn't mentioned in the blurb.  Their only (possible) attraction is their compactness.  You can spot a Bird-Jones as the tube length will be very much less than the focal length (the diameter of the main lens or mirror times the focal ratio).  You'll may also find it harder to sell these on.

The 70mm and 80mm appear to share the same mount, that I've found useable but rather wobbly.  This would be especially so on the heavier and longer 80mm.  It has slow motion on just 1 axis.  

The 102mm has a better focuser and mount as has already been pointed out, with slow motion on both axes.  However, you pay a lot extra compared with a similar model without Starsense Explorer.

The same applies to the 130mm reflector (that's not a Bird-Jones thank goodness).  Once again, it's a lot extra compared with a similar model without Starsense Explorer.  

Whether or not it's worth paying extra for Starsense Explorer compared with spending the same amount on a bigger (but heavier) scope will vary from person to person.  Starsense Explorer certainly makes locating objects very much easier.  All too many beginners give up astronomy when they can't find more than the brightest objects without a lot of hassle.  Many (especially youngsters)  won't have the patience to learn how to "star hop" from star to star; others will love the thrill of the chase that comes with star hopping.

However, in towns and cities light pollution will mean that they'll be many fewer stars visible, and this is where Starsense Explorer can make a huge difference in locating objects.  Without it you'd probably need to also buy an extra finderscope that'll show you more stars, but this costs extra.  Fine if you've already got one, but an added expense for most beginners.  This is why for my grandkids in London I chose a scope with Starsense Explorer.

The biggest problem though is finding any scopes in stock, let alone those with Starsense Explorer!

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Second Time Around

[Sluke321]

31 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

You may have seen that I've just bought 2 different scopes for different youngsters (see the recent topic "Best budget scope for a 5 year old").

For the older one in the country it was a 130mm table top Dobsonian.  For the 2 in London, including a 6 year old, who needed a lightweight scope it was a 70mm Starsense Explorer refractor.

I was so impressed with the Starsense Explorer that I bought another of the 70mm refractors for my own use, and adapted the technology to my other bigger and better scopes.  However, I kept the 70mm refractor as it's so lightweight, and being somewhat disabled there are nights when this is all I can manage.

Like others who've tried it, I believe that Starsense Explorer is a game changer for beginners.  It would be too for the more experienced if it had a larger database.  The technology is available only as a package with a scope, not standalone.  Unfortunately, the scopes themselves are all pretty basic, although some of them represent good value for money as the extra cost for the technology is modest.  This doesn't however apply to be more expensive ones, where you pay a lot for Starsense Explorer.

As far as I know there are 6 Starsense Explorer models that have been offered.  4 were released to begin with, then discontinued in the UK and replaced with 2 others.

The first 4 were:

80mm f/11.25 refractor

102mm f/6.5 refractor

114mm f/9 Bird-Jones reflector

130mm f/5 reflector

The 2 new UK models are:

70mm f/10 refractor

127mm f/7.87 Bird Jones reflector

As others have advised, I'd avoid the Bird-Jones designs.  This is because they're difficult to collimate, something that isn't mentioned in the blurb.  Their only (possible) attraction is their compactness.  You can spot a Bird-Jones as the tube length will be very much less than the focal length (the aperture x the focal ratio).  You'll may also find it harder to sell these on.

The 70mm and 80mm appear to share the same mount, that I've found useable but rather wobbly.  This would be especially so on the heavier and longer 80mm.  It has slow motion on just 1 axis.  

The 102mm has a better focuser and mount as has already been pointed out, with slow motion on both axes.  However, you pay a lot extra compared with a similar model without Starsense Explorer.

The same applies to the 130mm reflector (that's not a Bird-Jones thank goodness).  Once again, it's a lot extra compared with a similar model without Starsense Explorer.  

Whether or not it's worth paying extra for Starsense Explorer compared with spending the same amount on a bigger (but heavier) scope will vary from person to person.  Starsense Explorer certainly makes locating objects very much easier.  All too many beginners give up astronomy when they can't find more than the brightest objects without a lot of hassle.  Many won't have the patience to learn how to "star hop" from star to star; others will love the thrill of the chase that comes with star hopping.

However, in towns and cities light pollution will mean that they'll be many fewer stars visible, and this is where Starsense Explorer can make a huge difference in locating objects.  Without it you'd probably need to also buy an extra finderscope that'll show you more stars, but this costs extra.  Fine if you've already got one, but an added expense for most beginners.  This is why for my grandkids in London I chose a scope with Starsense Explorer.

The biggest problem though is finding any scopes in stock, let alone those with Starsense Explorer!

 

Can I just thank you for such a comprehensive response. That has pretty much answered everything. Thank you for pointing out the different models to me also. 
The starsense explorer app is the main attraction for me, for it to be paired with a decent scope it’s looking like the 130 is the best option albeit a bit pricey. 

For some the thrill may be hunting the stars without too much aid but I feel my daughter will feel so much more engaged using the app to direct her own stargazing without me having to do it all for her.

 

Can I take this time to thank every single one of you for the brilliant and informative responses. What is apparent that one size certainly does not fit all! It’s horses for courses at the end of the day. 
 

I’m going to read through all the responses again and have a think about it. please keep any ideas coming though!

 

What a great introduction to the forum I can already see what a great community there is here! 

 

[happy-kat]

I think it is three years ago now but the Celestron  70mm refractor was a certain department store's winter advert, the telescope was very popular that year and got good feedback.

 

Long tube not short

 

Found it, gosh 5 years ago and 60mm not 70mm

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/256835-man-on-the-moon-telescope/

Edited November 10, 2020 by happy-kat

[DaveL59]

Having a closer look at the DX130 on their website I'd say it seems quite good, decent focuser on it so either that or the DX102 should serve well. One thing with reflectors tho, you'll need to learn how to collimate it especially if travelling a lot with it to the coast. That can seem daunting at first but time and patience its a skill that can be learned and becomes second nature. Just don't fall for laser collimators, a simple cap or cheshire eyepiece would do the job more than adequately and less cost/hassle.

[Sluke321]

Well just to update everyone . We got the DX130 and it’s gone down a storm. Starting off with a x2 Barlow and zoomable lense to make it easy for my daughter. She is loving every second of it. She particularly enjoyed the starfish cluster and looking at the stars in the winter Hexagon! 
 

Thanks again to everyone for input