Buying my daughter her first telescope

[Sluke321]

Hello all,

 

Looking to buy my daughter a first telescope for Christmas. I would like it to be a starter telescope but at the same time be good enough for the whole family to use without the need to upgrade too soon if everyone enjoys it.

From the research I have done I really like the Celestron starsense models as I like the way your smart phone can mount the the telescope and you can utilise the app the guide you to a whole host of stars and planets. I feel this would be perfect for my daughter as she will be able to use the app to pick out what she wants to see and use it to guide her (with me there too of course)

 

I have been looking at the following

Celestron Starsense LT 127AZ £200 approx 

Celestron Starsense LT 114AZ £200 approx

Celestron LT 80AZ £170 approx

My main question regarding these is why are the 127 and the 114 model priced the same? Surely the 114 should be cheaper than the 127? Is there something else lacking not immediately apparent?

 

I have looked at the starsense 130 AZ but the price jumps up to around £340 which seems a disproportionate increase? 
 

I have looked at other 130’s like the Celestron Astromaster 130 which is around £190 but I just worry that I won’t be able to use the Celestron phone app to help guide us to find all the stars and planets. 
 

One of the musts for me is a telescope that will be able to see the rings of Saturn.
 

Any help is greatly appreciate, If I’m approaching this the wrong way please let me know!  
 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Sluke321

[AstroNebulee]

17 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

Hello all,

 

Looking to buy my daughter a first telescope for Christmas. I would like it to be a starter telescope but at the same time be good enough for the whole family to use without the need to upgrade too soon if everyone enjoys it.

From the research I have done I really like the Celestron starsense models as I like the way your smart phone can mount the the telescope and you can utilise the app the guide you to a whole host of stars and planets. I feel this would be perfect for my daughter as she will be able to use the app to pick out what she wants to see and use it to guide her (with me there too of course)

 

I have been looking at the following

Celestron Starsense LT 127AZ £200 approx 

Celestron Starsense LT 114AZ £200 approx

Celestron LT 80AZ £170 approx

My main question regarding these is why are the 127 and the 114 model priced the same? Surely the 114 should be cheaper than the 127? Is there something else lacking not immediately apparent?

 

I have looked at the starsense 130 AZ but the price jumps up to around £340 which seems a disproportionate increase? 
 

I have looked at other 130’s like the Celestron Astromaster 130 which is around £190 but I just worry that I won’t be able to use the Celestron phone app to help guide us to find all the stars and planets. 
 

Any help is greatly appreciate, I’ve I’m approaching this the wrong way please let me know!  
 

 

 

I like the look of the starsense 127 and 114, though I can't say why they are the same price. A few members on here have recently obtained a starsense scope so hopefully they'll respond. I had an astromaster 130eq and personally it isn't the best out there for that price, though I did enjoy using it but upgraded to a skywatcher explorer 150p eq3-2 and skymax 127 maksutov after. A lot of people on here suggest the skywatcher heritage 150p as a good starter scope. The goto type telescopes are ease of use once you've star aligned them. There are plenty of good resources on the Internet for stargazing applications, Stellarium is a great piece of software and in app form or sky safari. I use the book turn left at orion for knowing where stars are and to star hop, I prefer this way as I can learn the positions of stars and quickly find them with the eye, binos dslr or scopes, but that's personal preference. Good luck on getting a scope as there's quite a waiting list in many of them. A more knowledgable member will be along shortly, I've only got onto astronomy seriously since April and loving it and moving onto astrophotography with my dslr and tripod, clear skies. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by LeeHore7

[dweller25]

Hello and welcome to SGL.

Here is a beginners guide that may help.....

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html

Be aware that due to Covid telescopes are in short supply.

Here is a link to a free planetarium program.....

http://stellarium.org/

I would recommend this as it is very capable......

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html
 

You can get apps for your phone that will guide you around the night sky.

Good luck

PS Mars is in the southern sky at 8:30PM for a while - easy naked eye object

Edited November 10, 2020 by dweller25

[Sluke321]

1 minute ago, dweller25 said:

Hello and welcome to SGL.

Here is a beginners guide that may help.....

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html

Be aware that due to Covid telescopes are in short supply.

Here is a link to a free planetarium program.....

http://stellarium.org/

I would recommend this as it is very capable......

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html
 

You can get apps for your phone that will guide you around the night sky.

Good luck

PS Mars is in the southern sky at 8:30 for a while - easy naked eye object

Do the apps allow the smartphone to be mounted to the telescope to guide you onto the point of interest? 

[AstroNebulee]

3 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

Do the apps allow the smartphone to be mounted to the telescope to guide you onto the point of interest? 

The apps will help guide you around the night sky but not connectable to scopes as the starsense does, I think there's a way somehow but a bit of workaround needed. The apps are easy to use and learn to star hop and gives you a good sense of achievement I find 

[Cornelius Varley]

35 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

My main question regarding these is why are the 127 and the 114 model priced the same? Surely the 114 should be cheaper than the 127? Is there something else lacking not immediately apparent?

The 127 telescope optical design is something called a Jones-Bird reflector. This type uses a cheaper to make spherical primary mirror and some small lenses within the focuser to correct for the optical deficiencies in the mirror and also give the telescope it's 1000mm focal length. Best avoided.

22 minutes ago, LeeHore7 said:

I like the look of the starsense 127 and 114, though I can't say why they are the same price.

See my reply above.  It's a cheap telescope. I think the 114 also uses a spherical primary and corrector lenses. Also best to avoid.

[Sluke321]

12 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

The 127 telescope optical design is something called a Jones-Bird reflector. This type uses a cheaper to make spherical primary mirror and some small lenses within the focuser to correct for the optical deficiencies in the mirror and also give the telescope it's 1000mm focal length. Best avoided.

See my reply above.  It's a cheap telescope. I think the 114 also uses a spherical primary and corrector lenses. Also best to avoid.

So are you saying best to avoid all of them?

[Cornelius Varley]

2 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

So are you saying best to avoid all of them?

Certainly the 127 and 114. 

[AstroNebulee]

21 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

The 127 telescope optical design is something called a Jones-Bird reflector. This type uses a cheaper to make spherical primary mirror and some small lenses within the focuser to correct for the optical deficiencies in the mirror and also give the telescope it's 1000mm focal length. Best avoided.

See my reply above.  It's a cheap telescope. I think the 114 also uses a spherical primary and corrector lenses. Also best to avoid.

Thank you, just don't know anything about those starsense ones and knew a couple of members had them on here, just thought the starsense part with guiding with your phone is good, clear skies 👍

[Sluke321]

10 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

Certainly the 127 and 114. 

What would you say about the 80AZ? 
 

are any of the starsense models decent? What about the 130? 
 

I just like the idea of using the app with it but obviously the quality of the telescope is the main thing.

 

would any of the models be able to see Saturn’s rings for example? 

[DaveL59]

hi there and welcome to the forum.

As noted a few of us have bought Starsense models recently, more because we wanted the finder part which you can't get on its own. I have the LT70AZ model as do a couple of others. One thing to note with the LT range is they are quite wobbly, the DX models are reportedly a lot better since they have a better mount but of course that is a jump in price of around £100. 

For the LT70AZ that I have, in use it is quite competent in fact, the objective (main) lens is quite good in fact and I've been able to view Jupiter, Saturn and Mars, tho of course you don't see as much detail as you might on a bigger scope. The moon however is brilliant, being much closer to us its a nice easy target and certainly wows. It does wobble when trying to focus or move/adjust to the movement of the target, but it settles reasonably well and for £135 isn't bad really.

The starsense app works very well if you have a phone it supports, figures out quite quickly where it is pointing and then directs to your chosen target with arrows showing where to move the scope. Cloudy sky will limit it however but for a beginner it is very useful.

The limitations of that scope:

• the diagonal is erecting type, useful for land use but loses a little for night sky. A replacement star diagonal can be obtained later quite easily as they are standard 1.25-inch units. I use a SVbony dielectric one for USD29 for example and that does improve things quite a lot.
• The eyepieces won't be the best, I've never used the ones that came with the scope as I already had better ones and now use a 7-21mm zoom with it instead. Again can upgrade to better later if you wish to. The one I have is the SVbony SV135 which cost USD49.
• No slow motion adjuster on the azimouth axis so you need to nidge the scope to track the target. The Altitude does have a SloMo which is adequate, just. The DX models I believe to have SloMo controls which are probably a lot better too.
• The lightweight tripod is best used not fully extended, less wobbles that way.
• 70mm will only grab so much light, so deep sky stuff really isn't viable tho might give you something if in a really dark site. The 700mm focal length means false colur is reasonably controlled and a 7mm eyepiece will give 100x magnification easily, with a 2x barlow reaching 200x. Things do lose resolution at that high magnification tho but depending on the target and conditions it can be done.

In hindsight I'd have probably chosen the LT80 model for the slightly larger light grab ability but its £40 more and not in stock at the time, not to mention I've a few bigger scopes already. For me the plan was always to pass this on to my daughter and her 4YO daughter to use, having made up my own carrier to mimic what the OEM one does 🙂 It is a lightweight beginner scope and given that it does perform reasonably well but it is made to a budget as all similar models will be. That said I find it fun to use being so easy to set up and start to play so I'd happily recommend it, with of course the caveats above.

As mentioned already, the reflector versions are it seems Bird-Jones so not the best tho @markse68 recently acquired one for similar reasons to many of us so he'll be able to offer comments on that one.

hope that helps...

edit - when you say "see the rings of saturn" - you'll see it has rings but may be pushing it to see the cassini division on the LT70, can't comment on the 80mm. You'd likely need to improve the diagonal and eyepieces & barlow to get the best performance in order to discern much detail but you'll be able to see that there are rings around the planet 🙂 

They will look small tho, have you taken a read of the thread "what can I expect to see", worth doing so you have your expectations set right before plunging in.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by DaveL59

[AstroNebulee]

3 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

What would you say about the 80AZ? 
 

are any of the starsense models decent? What about the 130? 
 

I just like the idea of using the app with it but obviously the quality of the telescope is the main thing.

 

would any of the models be able to see Saturn’s rings for example? 

Any maksutov scope would be good for sering the planets in greater detail and you csn use apps such as stellarium to help you find planets in the sky to see, I use a skywatcher skymax127 and great for planets see  as he does good reviews of what to expect from certain scopes 

https://www.youtube.com/c/JenhamsUk

Edited November 10, 2020 by LeeHore7

[W0nderste]

Hi

I bought the Explorer 127 telescope as my first scope earlier in the year.  I really liked the fact that the phone app guided you to targets, but in all honesty the optics are very poor, so most of the (non-planetary) objects are almost impossible to see.  The things that you can see like Saturn and Jupiter, you don't need the app to find.  In my honest opinion it is a bit of a gimmick.  Plus the tripod and mount are pretty pants.  It's really a £100 starter scope with a cool phone mount/App.  But since the optics aren't up to actually viewing what it directs you to it's pretty pointless.

The DX130 is better and has better optics and mount to make the most of the Starsense, but is obviously more expensive.

A lot of people advocate getting a dobsonian telescope which 'optically' gives you the best 'bang for your buck' but you will need to be able to carry and store the telescope in it's complete form, plus you will have to constantly manually track items to keep them in your FOV.  Ok for visual astronomy but annoying if you want to try any photography.

I quickly sold the starsense explorer and bought a Celestron omni 127.  A much better telescope with a solid mount.  Good for solar system viewing and basic photography.  But since I couldn't easily see Polaris the EQ mount was difficult to align so I upgraded to Celestron 6SE.  Great optics and the convenience of a Goto mount.

In conclusion......

If you are happy to start with just purely visual astronomy, then the skywatcher dobsonians give good optical value for money.  A goto like the celestron 4se are often found second hand around the £3-350 range and are great starter scopes.  If you think you might get into photography I'd get a good second hand Eq mount with a MAC or SCT

At the end of the day each style of scope has advantages and disadvantages.  What works for one person my not work for others, but I would probably avoid the starter scopes on a tripod for less the £200 new.  They are built to a specific price point and the poor optics may put you off astronomy.  JMO thought

clear skies 👍🔭

[Zermelo]

56 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

Do the apps allow the smartphone to be mounted to the telescope to guide you onto the point of interest? 

If you're sticking with Celestron/Starsense line, then I'll leave others with experience of those models to answer, I have none.

But in general the answer to your question is that they can, provided your telescope (or rather, its mount, which sits between the telescope and the tripod) has wifi connectivity. This capability comes built-in with some mounts, or if not it can often be retrofitted with a "dongle".
In my setup, the mount has wifi, and there is an app from the manufacturer that allows you to use your phone as a substitute for the bespoke hand controller. This includes a catalogue of stars and other objects, from which you can select and use to direct the telescope. However, I've found it convenient to install a second app (SkySafari) on my phone. This provides more capabilities - for example it can display a map of the sky and show me, superimposed, exactly where my telescope is currently pointing. If your phone has an electronic compass built in (mine doesn't) you can hold it up to the sky (the app view will mimic what you see), and get the telescope to "follow" towards the place in the sky to which you are pointing. There are also ways to use PC apps like Stellarium to direct.

Of course, the connectivity tech costs extra, but many have found it worth the spend.

[W0nderste]

@Sluke321

as an example, below are two pics of Saturn.  The first was with the Starsense Explorer 127.  The second was with a Celestron Omni 127 SCT.  Both have an aperture of 127mm.  The starsense was £200 new.  The omni was £250 second hand.  As you can see optical difference is night and day.

Note: the second image was stacked and processed but honestly the difference is massive with what you see at the eyepiece.

 

 

[markse68]

Hi Sluke, as Dave mentioned i bought a second hand 114az- only because it was a good price and i badly wanted the app license. I think the main problem with these Bird Jones telescopes is collimation which is tricky to perform with the extra optics in the light path and in mine was off (and i suspect was badly off in W0nderste’s example) and that alone is probably enough not to recommend them!

I think the starsense app is game changing and wonderful! I’ve only had a chance to use it once with the weather we’re having but was really impressed with it and will mount it on my bigger dobsonian. I think the more expensive Starsense explorers are better scopes and maybe worth it if you decide to go that route but you are paying more for the app gimmick which isn’t really a gimmick at all- it’s fantastic  but you’ll get the same or better optically for less without it. 

After tweaking the collimation on the 114 I thought it produced a nice sharp image of Mars centre of view at lowish  magnification and i will experiment with it more. It goes really quite soft at the edges though so didn’t look very good on the moon with it filling the view. I haven’t used it in earnest yet but probably wouldn’t really recommend it! The refractors sound like a better bet and the DX reflectors are traditional parabolic mirrored newtonians I think? so should perform better.

So in summary... I don’t know 😂 The app is brilliant and if you live under light polluted skies a real aid to finding things. The scopes it’s bundled with at the lower price range are a bit pants and you’ll likely get better value for money at the higher price range if you don’t want the app 🤷‍♂️

Mark

[DaveL59]

it does seem that their reflector range is to be avoided especially the BJ variants which most seem to be, apart perhaps the 130 I believe.

The refractors tho aren't bad optically, comparing the LT70 against my 3-inch 1950's vintage and the TAL100RS which is a far better scope the LT70 still manages to give a nice image. I'd expect their LT80 and DX102 to be quite reasonable too. On the LT70 optically the lens seems very good, the plastic focuser works but can be easily improved - I recently added some teflon tape internally to reduce the rock when you change direction. A cheap motor focuser (Tasco 1603EF in my case) means fine focus with no wobble is easy to achieve too.

Sure a MAK or ED refractor or a SW130 etc will outperform but that is quite a step up in price compared to the LT starsense range. If you can live with the wobbles the LT refractors do pretty well I think.

One thing about Starsense, the app works, very well in fact and you can move the scope around the garden if needed and it will just figure out where it is aimed. No complex alignment etc, just plonk it down and go. It doesn't have the full range of objects compared to an expensive goto setup like SynScan etc but then it is targeted toward a starter audience. It also gives some nice detail info about the target you are searching for which is handy.

Here's the thread some of use have posted to about the mods we have made to get this working on our other scopes

On page 7 Mark details his experience of the LT114 which may help inform you on the reflector version.

 

@Sluke321 you don't say what the area you are viewing from is like, light pollution etc. That may well limit you in terms of the fainter objects but brighter targets like Moon, planets will be easily achievable as would clusters and doubles and brighter nebulae.

One thing to bear in mind with any of the scope kits you buy - you will get basic eyepieces to get you started and a big step improvement can be had by buying better ones. That is even more the case at the lower price range but you don't have to go for the £50/each BST starguiders that often get suggested. In fact a low-cost good zoom can fill the requirement pretty well albeit a narrowed field of view, you effectively get multiple eyepieces in a single unit and convenience in use.

Edited November 10, 2020 by DaveL59

[Sluke321]

10 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

it does seem that their reflector range is to be avoided especially the BJ variants which most seem to be, apart perhaps the 130 I believe.

The refractors tho aren't bad optically, comparing the LT70 against my 3-inch 1950's vintage and the TAL100RS which is a far better scope the LT70 still manages to give a nice image. I'd expect their LT80 and DX102 to be quite reasonable too. On the LT70 optically the lens seems very good, the plastic focuser works but can be easily improved - I recently added some teflon tape internally to reduce the rock when you change direction. A cheap motor focuser (Tasco 1603EF in my case) means fine focus with no wobble is easy to achieve too.

Sure a MAK or ED refractor or a SW130 etc will outperform but that is quite a step up in price compared to the LT starsense range. If you can live with the wobbles the LT refractors do pretty well I think.

One thing about Starsense, the app works, very well in fact and you can move the scope around the garden if needed and it will just figure out where it is aimed. No complex alignment etc, just plonk it down and go. It doesn't have the full range of objects compared to an expensive goto setup like SynScan etc but then it is targeted toward a starter audience. It also gives some nice detail info about the target you are searching for which is handy.

Here's the thread some of use have posted to about the mods we have made to get this working on our other scopes

On page 7 Mark details his experience of the LT114 which may help inform you on the reflector version.

 

@Sluke321 you don't say what the area you are viewing from is like, light pollution etc. That may well limit you in terms of the fainter objects but brighter targets like Moon, planets will be easily achievable as would clusters and doubles and brighter nebulae.

One thing to bear in mind with any of the scope kits you buy - you will get basic eyepieces to get you started and a big step improvement can be had by buying better ones. That is even more the case at the lower price range but you don't have to go for the £50/each BST starguiders that often get suggested. In fact a low-cost good zoom can fill the requirement pretty well albeit a narrowed field of view, you effectively get multiple eyepieces in a single unit and convenience in use.

I live in Holyhead North Wales 

[DaveL59]

7 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

I live in Holyhead North Wales 

pretty high light pollution there, perhaps?

[Sluke321]

6 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

pretty high light pollution there, perhaps?

Yes In the town but I had always planned to take it to the costal areas to the west where it’s darker 

[DaveL59]

quite a bit above your budget but this one should do very well and looks to be of good quality build unlike the lower end LT70/80 will be
https://www.castlecameras.co.uk/celestron-starsense-explorer-dx-102/p10769

Will give good light grasp and images of the planets etc and not need upgrading for some time if at all, other than perhaps eyepieces. It can be a slippery slop as you're likely realising, chasing better equipment and hoping to see more etc. Had I not already had the TAL100RS I might well have gone for this one 😉

 

PS - shhh that site says in stock 😮 

[Sluke321]

6 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

quite a bit above your budget but this one should do very well and looks to be of good quality build unlike the lower end LT70/80 will be
https://www.castlecameras.co.uk/celestron-starsense-explorer-dx-102/p10769

Will give good light grasp and images of the planets etc and not need upgrading for some time if at all, other than perhaps eyepieces. It can be a slippery slop as you're likely realising, chasing better equipment and hoping to see more etc. Had I not already had the TAL100RS I might well have gone for this one 😉

 

PS - shhh that site says in stock 😮 

Hello,

 

thanks for the reply. Why is the Dx130 only a little more expensive? Would it be better to go for that?And what makes these better than the ones I previously mentioned? Thanks again for the help I really appreciate it

Edited November 10, 2020 by Sluke321

[DaveL59]

17 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

Hello,

 

thanks for the reply. Why is that one more expensive than the DX 130? And what makes these so much better than the ones I previously mentioned? Thanks again for the help

The DX models are on a more stable and expensive mount. Plus that 102 scope is a better build quality - focuser alone from the images is a non-plastic type where on the LT70 for example is all plastic and has a degree of flop as you adjust. So a chunk of that price uplift will be for the better quality components. The 102 aperture will be good for light gathering but more expensive to manufacture than the DX130 which uses mirrors. From what I can tell tho both the DX130 and DX102 are similarly priced with variation depending on supplier.

If using by the sea, the salt air and spray might not be so good for a reflector scope over time being it is an open tube so both mirrors will be exposed to the elements, others may have experience here and be able to comment on that aspect. A refractor is closed so only the main objective lens would need occasional attention to carefully clean it.

edit - I should add tho at this price point you could also look at something else on an AZ-GTI mount , a SW MAK 127 for example which others have good experience with. I can't advise there as I've no experience of those scopes

Edited November 10, 2020 by DaveL59

[Pixies]

26 minutes ago, Sluke321 said:

Hello,

 

thanks for the reply. Why is the Dx130 only a little more expensive? Would it be better to go for that?And what makes these better than the ones I previously mentioned? Thanks again for the help I really appreciate it

Celestron appear to have chosen a selection from their range of beginner - lower-intermediate scopes and added the StarSense setup to them.

StarSense is much more than a gimmick. It isn't a basic star-map app with a compass/accelerometer to detect direction. It is an actual plate-solving system, which uses the mirror in the phone holder to direct a view of the stars. The app analyses the star patterns and works out where it is facing. A few on SGL have bought the cheaper models, removed StarSense for their own scopes, and passed on the remaining scopes to family members. The app requires a license key that comes with the kit. I recon that if Celestron marketed the StarSense kit seperately, it'll make a killing.

 

So, if you really want StarSense, these scopes are what is available. If it's not that important (ie. you are happy to learn how to find things in the night sky and locate them in the scope yourself) you should be looking at other options. Although there are other GoTo systems available (at a price).

Edited November 10, 2020 by Pixies

[Sluke321]

20 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

The DX models are on a more stable and expensive mount. Plus that 102 scope is a better build quality - focuser alone from the images is a non-plastic type where on the LT70 for example is all plastic and has a degree of flop as you adjust. So a chunk of that price uplift will be for the better quality components. The 102 aperture will be good for light gathering but more expensive to manufacture than the DX130 which uses mirrors. From what I can tell tho both the DX130 and DX102 are similarly priced with variation depending on supplier.

If using by the sea, the salt air and spray might not be so good for a reflector scope over time being it is an open tube so both mirrors will be exposed to the elements, others may have experience here and be able to comment on that aspect. A refractor is closed so only the main objective lens would need occasional attention to carefully clean it.

edit - I should add tho at this price point you could also look at something else on an AZ-GTI mount , a SW MAK 127 for example which others have good experience with. I can't advise there as I've no experience of those scopes

So the DX model may be better build quality but the telescope itself will be the same quality as the LT models?