Peeling paint on plywood dome.

[Bukko]

Such a healthy attitude to life, the universe, everything.

It is a shame you could not catch the water damage earlier, but that is the past and as you say, time to look forward. You are right about the fixed installation making a big difference; little need to plan, look at the clouds, if looking good, then head outside.

A ROR 14 feet off the ground? Love to see that photo.

Good luck with Bresser !!

Gordon.

[Rusted]

Thanks Gordon.

Why worry? 

[Rusted]

The "universe" and Bresser are out to get me!

They admitted the €70 delivery charge was a fiction! 

I can feel a missive to Margrethe Westager in the offing! 

Bresser muttered something about needing police outriders for the two, heavy transport, low loaders.

I don't care how much practice they've had with wind turbine blades.. they'll never get those down our drive!

More later.

[Alan White]

Now that must be a big dome!

So Bresser have advertised a fantasy charge, sounds very poor to me.

[Rusted]

1 hour ago, Alan White said:

Now that must be a big dome!

So Bresser have advertised a fantasy charge, sounds very poor to me.

There are retailers in the UK who have paid a large fortune in fines over the years for having different prices in the shops from those advertised.
Huge fines for repeatedly having different prices on the checkouts from those marked on the shelves. My fuzzy understanding is that they have to sell at the marked price.

Why bother with a "pretend" calculator when it is meaningless nonsense?  Why choose €70? Why not €7 or €7k? Click bait?
Because €70 sounds "friendly?" So, once you express an interest you feel under pressure to continue regardless of their demands?

The price you pay for any item inevitably includes the delivery charge. Sales often hinge on the TOTAL asking price.
People pick and choose from eBay dealers depending entirely on the TOTAL price. They aren't idiots.
£1 for the goods + £100 for P&P? Good luck with that as a business model!

[Bukko]

5 hours ago, Rusted said:

The "universe" and Bresser are out to get me!

They admitted the €70 delivery charge was a fiction! 

I can feel a missive to Margrethe Westager in the offing! 

Bresser muttered something about needing police outriders for the two, heavy transport, low loaders.

I don't care how much practice they've had with wind turbine blades.. they'll never get those down our drive!

More later.

Well, I called it.

Hopefully, my comments earlier softened the blow a little for you.

I had two, 3m scopedomes delivered to site in a fair sized panel van. With just the dome section and small wall, they should be easily able to fit them in an ordinary van. Even an open truck as you have nothing to be damaged by some rain.

If you have exhausted your discussion with Bresser, is it worth contacting Pulsar directly and making a trip over to collect yourself? You absolutely will not need a police escort or a heavy low-loader to move one dome.

Good luck getting out of this one.

Gordon.

[Davey-T]

Quote from FLO website.

Dave

[Rusted]

51 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Quote from FLO website.

Dave

I'm not buying it from FLO Dave. I live in Denmark. So a European distributor makes sense.
In this case Bresser is the major European distributor for Pulsar according to Pulsar's very own Facebook entry. [with pictures.]
Bresser has a different web page. One with a calculator which shows €70 for delivery to Denmark.

[Rusted]

2 hours ago, Bukko said:

Well, I called it.

Hopefully, my comments earlier softened the blow a little for you.

I had two, 3m scopedomes delivered to site in a fair sized panel van. With just the dome section and small wall, they should be easily able to fit them in an ordinary van. Even an open truck as you have nothing to be damaged by some rain.

If you have exhausted your discussion with Bresser, is it worth contacting Pulsar directly and making a trip over to collect yourself? You absolutely will not need a police escort or a heavy low-loader to move one dome.

Good luck getting out of this one.

Gordon.

Thanks Gordon. 

The reference to "low loaders" was my [less than subtle] attempt at humour.
I was going by the description given by Bresser's contact whom mentioned two large pallets.
In fact Pulsar shows the dome sections already palletised on their Facebook page.

I take my homework seriously just like any other self-respecting, obsessive-compulsive shopper for obs. domes.
In fact I came very close to buying a 2.7m a year or so ago until I realised my 7" f/12 just wouldn't fit.
I must have seen every single dome video on YT more than ten times by now.
Read the pulsar website dozens of times in case of change.

Pulsar were talking about a 3.5m model but gave up on the idea. Shame because I was very interested in one.

 

[Bukko]

16 hours ago, Rusted said:

Thanks Gordon. 

The reference to "low loaders" was my [less than subtle] attempt at humour.
I was going by the description given by Bresser's contact whom mentioned two large pallets.
In fact Pulsar shows the dome sections already palletised on their Facebook page.

I take my homework seriously just like any other self-respecting, obsessive-compulsive shopper for obs. domes.
In fact I came very close to buying a 2.7m a year or so ago until I realised my 7" f/12 just wouldn't fit.
I must have seen every single dome video on YT more than ten times by now.
Read the pulsar website dozens of times in case of change.

Pulsar were talking about a 3.5m model but gave up on the idea. Shame because I was very interested in one.

 

Haha. The low loaders did get me worried for a while. 

I do understand the pallet size. My Scopedomes arrived on huge pallets, I had to cut them into quarters to be able to dispose of them afterwards. I can imagine the trouble they will cause to normal carriers geared up for the usual size of loads.

Until I retired, I was an Engineer in the chemical industry and worked on some large projects worth billions each. I made significant technology decisions in a blink of an eye, compared to the time I spent going over the Pulsar vs Scopedome vs ROR vs any other option. So  I understand what you are going through. Trying to house your 7" frac would also be difficult for the 3m Scopedome. Although it is bigger than the Pulsar, there is a shutter motor which sits at the top of the roof and would take away form of the clearance. But as you do not plan to fit the automation, with some weight on the focuser end, should be OK in the dome. But its more money and you are still caught in the delivery cost problem...

Good luck.

Gordon.

[Rusted]

Thanks Gordon.

When it is our own money vanishing through the observation slit we are bound to worry more.

Still waiting for an answer from Bresser.

I am [obviously] no lawyer, but I believe they have placed themselves in a very awkward legal position by including the "calculator" on their sales website.
If the standard rate for delivery coughed up by their "calculator" is €70 then that is [surely] the flat delivery rate across most of Europe?

I checked a random range of European countries on their "calculator." They all show €70 except for Bulgaria at €650. Ouch!
That singular example of a variation on €70 is surely the determining factor? All others may pay [only] €70 for delivery.

They may claim their get-out clause is that they have to arrange individual delivery contracts with carriers.
Yet absolutely no mention of increased costs is included in their literature.
We are then invited to use the calculator immediately below to asses our country's delivery charges.

I did some online research on the subject and it is a red hot potato with many consumers. Furniture hidden delivery charges are a prime example.
The gist of which is that, WE as customers, ABSOLUTELY DETEST hidden costs and sales are often cancelled as a result.

No doubt there is Europe wide, consumer law covering the subject but I didn't delve that deeply.
Were I still in the UK, a quick call to the Local Trading Standards Office would almost certainly enlighten me.

 

[Peter Drew]

Turning the thread full circle, if it was my problem I would fibreglass the existing structure, the one you slaved over and were rightfully proud of at its completion.  I somehow can't see replacing it being any less of a hassle.  Not wishing to rub it in but the obs housing my 8.5" refractor cost less than £2K in aluminium and took me two weeks to make and one day to install.       🙂

[Rusted]

1 hour ago, Peter Drew said:

Turning the thread full circle, if it was my problem I would fibreglass the existing structure, the one you slaved over and were rightfully proud of at its completion.  I somehow can't see replacing it being any less of a hassle.  Not wishing to rub it in but the obs housing my 8.5" refractor cost less than £2K in aluminium and took me two weeks to make and one day to install.       🙂

Thanks Peter.

Your semi-cylindrical domes have always appealed.
Sadly I couldn't get a  local engineer to roll the end "ribs" from 60mm alu. angle.

Aluminium reflects the sky so isn't quite so obvious as snow white for most of the time.

But does an aluminium dome get warm?
This is the most vital aspect for solar imaging because most sensible options will stop the rain coming in anyway.

The expensive marine sealant is cracked all over. The ply is rough all over the top surface under badly flaking paint.
So it is finished unless I do something and very quickly!  Too late for paint. Don't want to fibreglass.

I am still wide open to different options but thinking of the best thermal performance for solar imaging.

So I am now researching cladding the existing dome with full drops/gores of white, heavy duty, PVC tarpaulin.
PVC is great for weather proofing the existing dome within any reasonable lifetime.
Low enough skill required for me to manage the job hanging upside down from a cantilevered ladder.

I have no white PVC to test but light grey gets warm in sunshine rather than hot.
I'm thinking of heat welding the seams with a heat gun at the edges rather than risk taping.
I think it will look quite smart rather than  an eyesore.

I'd be very grateful for any input on the practicality of the tarpaulin cover.

[Rusted]

Another option rears its head:

Peter's aluminium, semi-cylindrical domes inspired me to think again.
I'll build a whole, new, all aluminium 3m+, trapezoidal dome.

Full gores in one piece of aluminium with neat bends at the changing angles.
'T' profile ribs. Notched in the 'T' upright at the angles and bent to close the angles.

Pop riveted together. No special tools required. A few hundred quid in materials.
Build it on the ground. Lift it "upstairs" as pairs of, or single gores.

Aluminium will reflect the surrounding and overhanging trees and the grey sky.
Blending into its surroundings far better than any white dome.
I just tried covering the dome with a white tarpaulin and it was LOUD!

A new dome can be built for less than the anticipated cost of delivery of a smaller, GRP dome.
Lightweight and easy to move, build and handle.

 

[Davey-T]

Make sure you get some " bendy" aluminium, some is very brittle and springy, still think it would be easier with proper roofing zinc and aluminium will lose it reflective shine quickly and end up looking like zinc.

Dave

I know you like DIY but might be worth getting a quote from a roofing company plus they'd do it in situ.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Davey-T

[Rusted]

Thanks Dave.

Which part would the roofing company be doing? 

[Davey-T]

54 minutes ago, Rusted said:

Thanks Dave.

Which part would the roofing company be doing? 

They'd stick up some scaffolding and cover the ply with zinc only problem may be the extra weight.

Dave

 

[Rusted]

Thanks Dave.

I did some homework and zinc is four times heavier than aluminium and quite costly too.
There is also the problem of having to cut literally every panel [of 60!] to fit.
Which was what I did with the plywood using a sled on the table saw.

Starting a new build from scratch I would make every gore identical.

I heard back from Bresser and they are still looking into delivery costs.
Having raised Gordon's suggestion of a box van they say they would worry about damage in transit.

Pulsar used split pipe insulation for the lorry journey over to Bresser.
With the lorry packed tightly with dome parts.
I was quite mistaken in thinking they used pallets. 
I must have seen that in another video somewhere and filled in the blanks.

Delivery using large pallets forces the use of a much larger vehicle with increased delivery costs.
Then a fork lift is needed at the other end to unload the pallets.
How that works with back garden installations is a further problem.
Not everybody has access to a gang of willing volunteers.

The MD was not amused by seeing the dome in white!  😱
Not sure whether a white Pulsar would look much smaller with its low profile shutter and smoother exterior.
I suppose I could throw a shade net over it to make it look green.
The MD suggested I put the drive electronics in a plastic lunch box and wear a cagoule when it rains. 

[Bukko]

On 10/06/2020 at 20:55, Rusted said:

Thanks Dave.

I did some homework and zinc is four times heavier than aluminium and quite costly too.
There is also the problem of having to cut literally every panel [of 60!] to fit.
Which was what I did with the plywood using a sled on the table saw.

Starting a new build from scratch I would make every gore identical.

I heard back from Bresser and they are still looking into delivery costs.
Having raised Gordon's suggestion of a box van they say they would worry about damage in transit.

Pulsar used split pipe insulation for the lorry journey over to Bresser.
With the lorry packed tightly with dome parts.
I was quite mistaken in thinking they used pallets. 
I must have seen that in another video somewhere and filled in the blanks.

Delivery using large pallets forces the use of a much larger vehicle with increased delivery costs.
Then a fork lift is needed at the other end to unload the pallets.
How that works with back garden installations is a further problem.
Not everybody has access to a gang of willing volunteers.

The MD was not amused by seeing the dome in white!  😱
Not sure whether a white Pulsar would look much smaller with its low profile shutter and smoother exterior.
I suppose I could throw a shade net over it to make it look green.
The MD suggested I put the drive electronics in a plastic lunch box and wear a cagoule when it rains. 

If Bresser are packaging the dome to take rough transport, the packing on its own can run into hundreds. I still expect the carriage to hit a grand at least, but don't understand the issue getting a price. I am pretty sure you are not the first to purchase a dome from them, so they really should have a good handle on the costs.

If you collect, it would be a great idea to bring some of the pipe insulation they talk about, plus bubblewrap and some polystyrene foam to pack it for the journey.

But I had another thought.

The plywood covering could be replaced with EPDM roofing sheet. With the rubber glue, it could be pulled tight and glued in place, with some clout nails to hold it. EPDM is used in tyres - particularly the whitewall on tyres, plus it is blended for inner tubes. It is hugely resilient, totally water tight and will not be harmed by nailing it in place. It is not cheap, but is a lot cheaper than starting the whole dome again. It also takes paint too - acrylic water based goes on fine, solvent based paint will adhere better, but will react a bit with the EPDM when wet.  At least worth thinking about...

My local village is about 2 miles away - 3.3km - and from the village, the two Scopedomes in white stands out in the countryside background... The domes are hardly visible from the house, so not a problem for me, but I can understand your MD having a bit of a problem with a white dome, even if white would be better to reflect heat.. Gold is, of course, better so maybe suggest white is a compromise to coating it in gold leaf !! Haha.

Gordon.

[Davey-T]

So where does that leave you, back to fixing the leaks ? if it's just the joints between the sheets it can't be beyond the wit of man to fix it, after all they can send a man to the Moon so how hard can it be to fix a few leaks 😁

Dave

[Rusted]

Thanks Gordon.

I used black EPDM "lake liner" for my dome skirt. It weighs a ton!
It is available in other colours but I haven't found any in Denmark so far.

My dome would be partially visible, in the distance, only from the rural road about 150 yards away.
The 20' hedges are growing rapidly so the dome should soon be completely invisible.
We put up a 1m, grey satellite dish once and it stood out like a sore thumb in the distance!

We did some more colour testing recently with any handy sheets of stuff available.
It was very illuminating. Everything looks lighter, brighter and much bigger up there.
A common illusion used and abused by the classic garden designers for slave drivers, stately follies.

White, lightweight, PE tarpaulin looked lie a hot air balloon had crashed in the garden trees!  😱
Light grey looks white.  So we are still aiming for a sage green.
Which has proved a remarkably invisible colour at any time of year. Recommended!
The dome is almost buried in deciduous trees now.
Pulsar "Grass green" is just too strong a colour and rather too dark in our entirely personal opinion.

PVC tarpaulin is rather lighter in weight than EPDM and readily weldable with a heat torch.
My dome is all straight lines so doable in shaped gores, from flat sheet, without spherical distortion.
Colours available to taste if you get away from the discount, ready-made tarpaulin, stockists.

[Rusted]

11 hours ago, Davey-T said:

So where does that leave you, back to fixing the leaks ? if it's just the joints between the sheets it can't be beyond the wit of man to fix it, after all they can send a man to the Moon so how hard can it be to fix a few leaks 😁

Dave

Wit of man? WIT OF MAN?

A few leaks? I have the equivelant of a town's drinking water tank up there!
Hipsters will be fighting to buy it up to convert to a <cough> highly <cough> des. res.
Just to get on a TV "challenging, grossly undersized, architecture" show. 

But I have a plan.
 

[Davey-T]

Always good to have a plan 😁

Dave

[Rusted]

4 hours ago, Davey-T said:

Always good to have a plan 😁

Dave

I have just discovered that Pulsar offers "sage green." 
It pops up on their FB space. I thought it was just a trick of the light at first.
Do you think The MD would notice if a did a quick swap with my "fish tank?"

 

EDIT:

The lighter "SAGE GREEN" IS THE STANDARD GREEN FOR PULSAR DOMES other than the NORMAL WHITE.

Apparently, the darker "Forest Green" was discontinued some years ago. I didn't know that.

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Rusted
info

[kirkster501]

What about some of these specialised rubber roofing paints?

https://www.rawlinspaints.com/roof-paints?gclid=Cj0KCQjwz4z3BRCgARIsAES_OVfjkB3ispZEvn9zouMN_yfiVdqpJYz-OpFM1_O2w1dae3KxjAbCHnwaAkzTEALw_wcB