Horsehead - Planning ahead

[GavStar]

 

[bomberbaz]

29 minutes ago, GavStar said:

 

Pretty impressive view that there, wish the view with the naked eye will be that impressive, haha.

[John]

I'm no imager (or NV user) but I understand that the HH is not particularly difficult to image. It's just darn hard to see visually without electronic assistance.

Still, if it was easy then it wouldn't be a challenge, would it ?

 

[PeterW]

Yes, blame evolution for the rubbish human sensitivity to 656nm, we have to rely on weaker h-beta emission closer to our peak in sensitivity in the blue green. The main colour of the galaxy is red... there is much glowing Hydrogen about.
... some challenges are not worth the effort though...

Peter

[PeterW]

All this talk about waiting for Orion, what about stuff in Cepheus, more northern Milky Way?

Peter

[bomberbaz]

24 minutes ago, PeterW said:

All this talk about waiting for Orion, what about stuff in Cepheus, more northern Milky Way?

Peter

As soon as the lockdown is eased and reasonable travel allowed I have a couple of quasars lined up Peter. Plenty more going on here,  the clue to this thread is "planning ahead" 😉 hehehe

[John]

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

... some challenges are not worth the effort though...

 

You could say that about many of the more difficult astro targets I think. After all most are no more than just another faint pinpoint of light, a vague patch of fuzzy light or a very subtle contrast difference.

Most non-astronomers would wonder why we bother with such things

I suppose its the same in most hobbies though - a hole in one at golf, a fish close to the record in angling, a rare bird or plant spotted. The possibility of such things keeps people trying I reckon

 

 

[jetstream]

6 hours ago, PeterW said:

some challenges are not worth the effort though...

To each their own I say, whats not worth the effort for one might be a great challenge and reward for another. My current one is Einsteins Cross- many times on it no luck but maybe in a few years of trying. If I don't ever see the lensed quasar so be it, but the pursuit has been an eye opener.

[PeterW]

Sharpless 240 and 91 being two of mine...

 

Peter

[bomberbaz]

4 hours ago, jetstream said:

To each their own I say, whats not worth the effort for one might be a great challenge and reward for another. My current one is Einsteins Cross- many times on it no luck but maybe in a few years of trying. If I don't ever see the lensed quasar so be it, but the pursuit has been an eye opener.

You need at least an 18" aperture Jerry. Should find it easy with your 24! 😉

[scarp15]

2 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

You need at least an 18" aperture Jerry. Should find it easy with your 24! 😉

I had read that 24" is possible yet at entry level in aperture terms, dependent on very good transparency.

Visually engaging the Horse Head isn't a challenge, its a set of learning principles. 

[jetstream]

4 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

Should find it easy with your 24! 

🤣

Well I can get a whiff of the lensing galaxy and I hold no delusion of seeing every lensed quasar image- one or 2 with a very faint possibility on a third. This will take the unusual gathering of fantastic seeing, fantastic transparency, my darkest skies, complete dark adaptation, the right magnification with orthos and piles of luck lol!

Question Steve- have you seen other dark nebula before? For practise trying to find them and in their particular edges would be good. Aquila offers excellent and easy, large dark nebula.

Head to Tarazed to hunt some excellent dark nebula. A very wide field helps here ie the 26mm Nagler.

Edited May 6, 2020 by jetstream

[mikeDnight]

23 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

Didn't know you was in Burnley area mike, hello. 

You may know the holiday inn express then, well my house is exactly opposite that. A car park full of lamps and 3 uplighters for thier flags 20 yards over the road from my back garden. SQM reading 19.5, could be even lower for me.

There isn't a chance in hell of spotting it from my garden. 

Great report though and I do envy you of your circumstances. Light polution map gives the whole of Burnley as a mess of red though,

 https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=10.999017178569716&lat=7136160&lon=-251411&layers=0BFFFFFTFFFFFFFFF

Best I can manage that is worthwhile from garden are Moon, planetary and doubles. Even globulars aren't worth going for. Yes my garden is rubbish haha.

Steve

Wow, that map paints a grim picture. If it makes you feel any better, I can generally see the mikyway from my front door step on Ighten road. Perhaps that hasn't helped!

The skies definitely aren't what they used to be, and Burnley being an old cotton mill town is known for its clouds, rain and generally damp conditions which means there's often a thin cloud layer or haze, even when the stars can be seen. Can be great for planets as we get some very stable seeing at times, but transparency can be more difficult. 

The brow of the hill at Newchurch In Pendle offers wonderfully transparent skies. One mile in any direction and the seeing deteriorates, so there must be something special about the way the land lies creating local seeing that allowed M33 to be seen with the naked eye. I've had great results from the Trough of Bowland but also nearer to home at the end of Park Lane near Hagg Wood. These sites might be worth trying if DSO's are where your heart lies.

 

 

[bomberbaz]

34 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Wow, that map paints a grim picture. If it makes you feel any better, I can generally see the mikyway from my front door step on Ighten road. Perhaps that hasn't helped!

The skies definitely aren't what they used to be, and Burnley being an old cotton mill town is known for its clouds, rain and generally damp conditions which means there's often a thin cloud layer or haze, even when the stars can be seen. Can be great for planets as we get some very stable seeing at times, but transparency can be more difficult. 

The brow of the hill at Newchurch In Pendle offers wonderfully transparent skies. One mile in any direction and the seeing deteriorates, so there must be something special about the way the land lies creating local seeing that allowed M33 to be seen with the naked eye. I've had great results from the Trough of Bowland but also nearer to home at the end of Park Lane near Hagg Wood. These sites might be worth trying if DSO's are where your heart lies.

 

 

Any chance you can highlight this on a map please Mike, google gave me conflicting results

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, jetstream said:

🤣

Well I can get a whiff of the lensing galaxy and I hold no delusion of seeing every lensed quasar image- one or 2 with a very faint possibility on a third. This will take the unusual gathering of fantastic seeing, fantastic transparency, my darkest skies, complete dark adaptation, the right magnification with orthos and piles of luck lol!

Question Steve- have you seen other dark nebula before? For practise trying to find them and in their particular edges would be good. Aquila offers excellent and easy, large dark nebula.

Head to Tarazed to hunt some excellent dark nebula. A very wide field helps here ie the 26mm Nagler.

Dark nebulae..... aghh!! One sort of observing nightmare I have yet to indulge in much (no point with the skies I have, filters offer little if any help either). I have however snagged Barnards E with bins from a dark sky (“UK grade”).

Peter

[scarp15]

Another dark nebula you could try and have at a go at Steve is Barnard 86, The Inkspot Nebula, coupled with open cluster NGC 6520 in Sagittarius. Here are a couple of detailed accounts and observers sketches and @Littleguy80 Neil, who has dedicated some observing time to this may chip in.

http://www.perezmedia.net/beltofvenus/archives/000581.html

 

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/279188-sketch-ngc-6520-barnard-86-from-the-mercator-observatory-la-palma/

 

[scarp15]

Here is a picture as links not responding also a picture, correct orientation for dobsonian location of B33, Mel Bartels.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by scarp15

[scarp15]

Here is another sketch from Cloudy Nights indicating the notch that is more commonly seen by observers.

[jetstream]

2 hours ago, scarp15 said:

Here is another sketch from Cloudy Nights indicating the notch that is more commonly seen by observers.

This one is more realistic IMHO

[Ships and Stars]

On 05/05/2020 at 16:39, PeterW said:

From a post on another forum, the carrots don’t work, but breathing properly does (don’t hold your breath when observing!)

That was me on the carrots topic a while back. While they don't give you 'extra' dark adaptation over normal eye health, they help ensure dark adaptation is functioning properly, that's why I eat them. Red peppers also. The carrots/night vision aspect comes from WWII when British pilots didn't want the Germans to know about radar, they leaked false information saying carrots were giving them greatly enhanced night vision.

Agree on the breathing, the eyes require a good flow of oxygen to work at top efficiency. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Ships and Stars

[mikeDnight]

4 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

Any chance you can highlight this on a map please Mike, google gave me conflicting results

Hi Steve,

Attached are three maps showing the sites I mentioned. It would be easier to take a field trip, but we couldn't do that until after the lockdown is lifted, and probably better mid August onwards as the night's get darker.

Park Lane/Hagg Wood

Newchurch in Pendle.

Trough of Bowland.

[bomberbaz]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

Hi Steve,

Attached are three maps showing the sites I mentioned. It would be easier to take a field trip, but we couldn't do that until after the lockdown is lifted, and probably better mid August onwards as the night's get darker.

Park Lane/Hagg Wood

Newchurch in Pendle.

 

Trough of Bowland.

 

Ah so you mean right down at the end of ightonhill park road, I didn't realise you meant there, that's what flumoxed me. 

I am familiar with newchurch in pendle, had customers up there and was always threatening to try it, might do still. 

As for bowland, I have found a great spot up past the ribblehead viaduct but my plan is to drive out one night and recce this properly. A pub nearby had zillion watt security lights on it and want to see if there is an extent beyond about a mile. Doubt it but not leaving anything to chance this time. I want the GG.

[bomberbaz]

6 hours ago, jetstream said:

🤣

Well I can get a whiff of the lensing galaxy and I hold no delusion of seeing every lensed quasar image- one or 2 with a very faint possibility on a third. This will take the unusual gathering of fantastic seeing, fantastic transparency, my darkest skies, complete dark adaptation, the right magnification with orthos and piles of luck lol!

Question Steve- have you seen other dark nebula before? For practise trying to find them and in their particular edges would be good. Aquila offers excellent and easy, large dark nebula.

Head to Tarazed to hunt some excellent dark nebula. A very wide field helps here ie the 26mm Nagler.

I wouldn't know how to go about this aspect of the hobby, are there any guides to assist in getting to grips with it. I will try anything once, well maybe even more. I have tried for the HH about 15 times.

[bomberbaz]

4 hours ago, scarp15 said:

Here is another sketch from Cloudy Nights indicating the notch that is more commonly seen by observers.

thanks for the sketches/links Iain. Really good info to have.

I love these forums, so much great stuff if you ask the right questions.

Steve

[bomberbaz]

5 hours ago, scarp15 said:

Here is a picture as links not responding also a picture, correct orientation for dobsonian location of B33, Mel Bartels.

 

 

 

 

Just had a look at this DSO, It will be really, really hard to get this one. It only rises to around 8 degree, this obviously isn't the same way down in the canaries. 

Not saying it isn't doable, just think you are going to need the best skies ever akin to the type needed for the horsey. 

My list is growing nicely.