Reliable connections between observatory and warm room

[kmaslin]

Expect this has been asked before, but what options are best to get reliable links over 3m between scope and warm room? I have a working system (just) using powered usb hub and direct usb3 cables, but is pushing the boundaries as technically links are over 3m. Have tried various "active" usb3 cables but with limited success. However issue might be me not paying enough for the cables which range in price from £10 to over £60! Should I invest and any suggestions, or have you tried usb3 to ethernet converters?

[MarkAR]

There was a recent thread and one member suggested using some sort of ethernet cable that you would have to make up.

It Active cables aren't working for you then maybe an ethernet set up might be the way to go.

[Gina]

CAT6 Ethernet cable is what I use between the observatory and house for remote imaging.

[SlimPaling]

When I first set up my garden obsy I spent quite a lot of time making up an exterior quality Ethernet cable plus wiring up the connectors at both ends ( very tricky .... and needed a special tool to crimp connectors ... and also a special tester to check that all connections were correct before I linked things up !  ) and ran it down from my BT router to my obsy .... about 20 meters away. It worked fine :-))))

However .... soon after I discovered that my obsy laptop could pick up the signal direct from my  new BT Router inside my house ! ...... so basically I wasted my time :-((((

[Kev M]

2 hours ago, kmaslin said:

Expect this has been asked before, but what options are best to get reliable links over 3m between scope and warm room? I have a working system (just) using powered usb hub and direct usb3 cables, but is pushing the boundaries as technically links are over 3m. Have tried various "active" usb3 cables but with limited success. However issue might be me not paying enough for the cables which range in price from £10 to over £60! Should I invest and any suggestions, or have you tried usb3 to ethernet converters?

I would start by trying to break down the problem.

Do you actually need USB3 would the devices not run happily on USB2 most will ?

Do you have a laptop or PC, could this be moved into the observatory room ( assuming you have one and scope is not outside ) and the Keyboard, Mouse , screen be extended backwards into the warm room.

 

 

 

[JamesF]

1 hour ago, SlimPaling said:

soon after I discovered that my obsy laptop could pick up the signal direct from my  new BT Router inside my house ! ...... so basically I wasted my time :-((((

I wouldn't have said so.  I think there are many advantages to using wired network connections rather than wifi.  Making the cables up is a bit awkward at first, I agree, but once you've had a bit of practice you can do them pretty quickly.

James

[DaveL59]

I'd agree James, we always used to work on the principle that if it don't move, hardwire it if you need the connection to be reliable.

For the OP's issues, are any of the network-USB hub devices any use for what you're trying to do? Unfortunately the better ones are pricey but you'd then have a hub at the scope end with a single network link back to the warm room/house. That said, there would be a limit to the amount of power these are likely to be able to supply. Alternatively something like a lenovo tiny PC at the mount end LAN cabled back might serve the purpose too.

[discardedastro]

I'd always recommend PC on the mount/scope with wired Ethernet off to the house. It'll be 100% reliable and pain-free. Either use remote desktop if you're running Windows et al, or just run INDIserver on the scope PC and run KStars/Ekos indoors for the glorious Linux world (which means the scope PC can be as little as a Raspberry Pi).

USB3 at a distance was not meant to be; the technology can be sort of cludged into making it work but generally you're going to need powered repeaters and at higher speeds like USB 3.1 these are really expensive not to mention sensitive and fragile in terms of resistance to interference etc.

Ethernet on cheap Cat5e cables is good for a gigabit per second at 100 metres. Beyond 100m, the only way to go is fibre optics, which are an entirely different ball game but actually quite straightforward if you stick to buying pre-terminated cables made up to your required length (which isn't that expensive to have done) and just swap it back to copper Ethernet with media converters at each end.

I'd never suggest making up Ethernet patch cables (e.g. terminating male plugs) - you can buy 50m, 75m or even 100m "patch cords" for pretty low prices on Amazon and they work just fine (I use these for some of my garden cameras and to connect my scope up in its current semi-temporary position). If you need to make up an Ethernet cable, do it with punch-down (IDC) modules on each end and terminate in wall boxes. This requires only a £3 plastic tool and some diagonal cutters (sidecutters), will be neater in most cases, and it's much harder to get wrong in a way that'll cause a problem.

For shorter links, chaining powered hubs might be the way to go, but I'd still be using Ethernet for a shorter run between scope and warm room with the PC on the scope.

Edited April 19, 2020 by discardedastro

[Gina]

I bought a ready made outdoor rated CAT6 cable from Amazon many years ago to connect house to obsy.  I run it as a catenary so the the rats can't get at it.  Being UV shielded it's fine out in the open (and the birds like it).  I can get a WiFi connection but since the two RPi systems that are mounted on the imaging rig can be at all sorts of angles, I prefer the much more reliable Ethernet connection - it's faster too.

[JamesF]

3 hours ago, discardedastro said:

I'd never suggest making up Ethernet patch cables (e.g. terminating male plugs) - you can buy 50m, 75m or even 100m "patch cords" for pretty low prices on Amazon and they work just fine (I use these for some of my garden cameras and to connect my scope up in its current semi-temporary position).

If you only want one or two cables and you can get them the right length then I think it does make sense to buy them already made.  I was taught to make them by the networking guys when we were building an ISP datacentre in the mid-90s and since then I've always made my own.

James

[Gina]

I have one cable house to obsy and a network switch in the obsy.

[LongJohn54]

I have an Anker 10 port powered usb3 hub in the obsy.  There are 3 metre cables from the hub to the mount, cameras etc and a 5 metre lead from the hub to my PC in the warm room.

Currently plugged in are -

Mount NEQ6

x-box game controller for when I'm visual and want to slew around.

Atik 314L camera

Atik filter wheel

QHY5 camera

BT WiFi dongle

The dongle is plugged here as there is a direct line of sight through the patio doors into the kitchen where one of my MESH WiFi hubs is located.   If it were to be plugged into the PC the signal would have to pass through two brick walls and is too weak to use.

I run everything and can be online (like this) at the same time with no connection problems at all.   My observatory is only 10 ft from the house and the distance between the WiFi hub and the usb hub is 25 ft with a great signal.

Yes, before you ask, it was 2:00am and I'm drinking beer and eating an Easter egg whilst capturing M51 and reading SGL. 😁

 

 

[kmaslin]

13 hours ago, Gina said:

Does that Anker usb hub work with usb3 as that is the issue I have found. Can anyone specify the ethernet to usb connector as these range from £10 (cant believe these work for usb3) to £150+ 

 

 

[AngryDonkey]

21 hours ago, kmaslin said:

Expect this has been asked before, but what options are best to get reliable links over 3m between scope and warm room? I have a working system (just) using powered usb hub and direct usb3 cables, but is pushing the boundaries as technically links are over 3m. Have tried various "active" usb3 cables but with limited success. However issue might be me not paying enough for the cables which range in price from £10 to over £60! Should I invest and any suggestions, or have you tried usb3 to ethernet converters?

What distance is it exactly?

The most reliable connection would be to not use any networking at all. I think this has already been mentioned above but if the distance allows I would keep the PC next to (but not on) the mount and just have a monitor, mouse and keyboard in the warm room. Then you can use a longish HDMI cable to connect the PC to the monitor and bluetooth for the keyboard and mouse (or a USB2 cable if bluetooth does not work). This way everything is directly connected to your PC and you will have greatest reliability. I have a very similar setup for my portable setup which stays in a tent and I sit outside about 4m away. Works really well. Of course if the distance is greater then getting the HDMI connection will become more difficult but should be fine with 5m. It's also a fairly cheap way of doing it.

Mike

[kmaslin]

Have sorted the issue by using a 2nd PC next to the telescope and multiple usb connections, connected this via ethernet to network and access it via Teamview from the warm room main PC - all working a treat and now frees up the main PC to do processing etc whilst data collecting on the other 😁 Just got half a dozen long usb cables and hubs collecting dust now 😉