Headless PCs

[DaveS]

Mods: I'm posting this here for now, please move to a more appropriate location if there is one.

 

Headless PCs, as scary as headless horsemen or headless monks?

I'm setting up the computer system for the new obsy, which will be in a box for now and will b be operated remotely via RDP when the obsy is operational. It would simplify the enclosure if I could run this without monitor or keyboard. Is this viable? 

Although the obsy is still under construction I expect to be getting the pier, mount, and 'scope in before construction is finished as the walls will get in the way. I hope to get the 'lekky connected soon-ish when the sparks can organise a visit.

What should I be aware of, and will there be any likely gotchas.

TIA

[andrew s]

Mine at Pixelskies runs without mouse, monitor or keyboard. 

Regards Andrew 

[Gina]

I have been running my imaging computer headless for years!  All control is from indoors except for taking darks or flats which I haven't automated (yet).  OTOH I'm not running Windows as you know.

[Gina]

Yes, my current imaging computer is a single board computer - Raspberry Pi.  But before that I was running a Windows laptop headless in my observatory.

[DaveS]

I have a mini PC, i3 with 64 gig boot and 500 gig storage drives. I already have all the software loaded. The mount connects via a serial port (Remember them?), and a USB for the built in hub. There's also internal power routing.

[Skipper Billy]

1 hour ago, DaveS said:

I'm setting up the computer system for the new obsy, which will be in a box for now and will b be operated remotely via RDP when the obsy is operational. It would simplify the enclosure if I could run this without monitor or keyboard. Is this viable? 

Yes - thats exactly what I use. If I need to have a screen/keyboard at the mount I just use RDP on a laptop - for things like adjusting focus on the guide scope etc.

 

[discardedastro]

I'd heartily recommend the use of Linux for any observatory control stuff - much more reliable and less prone to things like random reboots to do Windows Update in the dead of night when you're not using your PC it isn't so scary, and KStars/Ekos/INDI is an excellent stack to use. Raspberry Pi 4s are cheap, cheerful, and incredibly capable for the cost. Otherwise any NUC will work just as well on Linux as on Windows.

[DaveS]

Until ASA get off their butts and deliver the platform independent software they've been promising I'm pretty well stuck with Win-Dross unfortunately. At least with Win10 Pro I can schedule a time when it doesn't update, this is set for normal imaging time, The only problem is Micro-$-Oft's tendency to stuff up their updates, leading to stuffed up end-users' computers. This has happened a couple of times with me leading to borked drivers.

ASA DDM mounts are so damn good that I'm prepared to put up with Micro-$-Oft and Win-Dross. The software, while a bit graunchy and cantankerous does everything I need, and more.

[JamesF]

10 minutes ago, discardedastro said:

I'd heartily recommend the use of Linux for any observatory control stuff - much more reliable and less prone to things like random reboots to do Windows Update in the dead of night when you're not using your PC it isn't so scary, and KStars/Ekos/INDI is an excellent stack to use. Raspberry Pi 4s are cheap, cheerful, and incredibly capable for the cost. Otherwise any NUC will work just as well on Linux as on Windows.

I would agree, but I often shy away from suggesting it to people who have always used Windows as they can find it a bit intimidating.  As the saying goes: "Unix is user friendly. It's just very selective about who it makes friends with".

James

[discardedastro]

7 minutes ago, DaveS said:

Until ASA get off their butts and deliver the platform independent software they've been promising I'm pretty well stuck with Win-Dross unfortunately. At least with Win10 Pro I can schedule a time when it doesn't update, this is set for normal imaging time, The only problem is Micro-$-Oft's tendency to stuff up their updates, leading to stuffed up end-users' computers. This has happened a couple of times with me leading to borked drivers.

ASA DDM mounts are so damn good that I'm prepared to put up with Micro-$-Oft and Win-Dross. The software, while a bit graunchy and cantankerous does everything I need, and more.

Yeah, fair enough. I do hope INDI continues to be as widely adopted as it appears to be getting so far - cross-platform drivers and interfaces with a neutral interchange format can only be a good thing, and a huge improvement on ASCOM. I'm envious of the ASA mount - my EQ6-R Pro isn't even in the same league.

[don4l]

I had to make a choice between a Pi and a laptop to live beside the mount.  Initially, I was attracted to the Pi.  It would be neater, and cheaper.

In the end, I went with the laptop (and screen) for a few reasons.

1)  Rotating the camera.  I am not going to spend a small fortune on a rotator, but I do rotate to frame my images.

2) Focusing the autoguider.  (not really a big issue in practice)

3) Focusing my Tal.  I don't really need a motorised focuser for this F10 scope.

4) Anything that I hadn't thought about where a display would be useful.

 

I'm using a refurbished laptop that cost £200.00 - so it wasn't too expensive. 

A headless computer would be neater, but I'm happy with the way I've implemented it.  I like the idea that I can just sit down beside it if things go wrong.

On balance, I would suggest that you go with whatever you feel more comfortable with.

[JOC]

FWIW I hadn't even considered that computers would want to run 'headless'.  However, with SGL help (Considerable, wonderful, amazing SGL help) I experimented with a R-Pi media server and learned just so much in the process - as well as getting a functioning system I ended up with a huge feeling of accomplishment.  My headless R-Pi and attached media disk is attached to my network and thanks to dial-in software on my windows PC I can shift files onto and off of the media disk and log into the R-Pi itself to control it if I need to.  Of course to set it up I needed to initially attach it to a mouse and keyboard, but once done it is happy to sit under in a cabinet serving my media files (in fact I'm listening to R-Pi Plex server music as I type via Alexa/Amazon Echo which also 'talks' to it).  I now understand the theory of why you would want a headless system and the potential of what one could do.  I suspect R-Pi is as far as I will ever go with the concept, but I would like to find something else that I could set up one to sort out as the whole process was totally fascinating.  I suppose when you use one to control imaging things it gives you the ability to sit inside in the warm at a PC whilst logging into the headless system to see what it is up to and to control various commands that it can send to things or just leaving it to carry out a pre-programmed set of instructions from some software you've previously setup, i.e. open the shutter for 400 times and hold it open for 15 seconds on each occasion.

Quote

So scary as headless horseman or not? 

With the benefit of hindsight - NOT!  I was so concerned as to whether I could deal with this sort of thing and in fairness I wouldn't have touched it with a barge-pole without SGL encouragement, but the reality wasn't actually that difficult and I definitely think you should have a bash with one.  If anything it showed me what you did with something like a R-Pi.  Apart from knowing it was a small computer I had never managed to see what you did with a computer with no keyboard, mouse or monitor or why they were of any use to anyone.  If I can manage to get my head around it (and actually have such a system up and running - Yay - go SGL help!) then I think anyone can.   Oh, yes and apparently these mini R-Pi and similar win over leaving an old full size running because they take far less leccy to keep going.

Edited March 11, 2020 by JOC

[Gina]

As I've mentioned before I have Blogs on here detailing step by step setting up a Raspberry Pi for imaging remotely.  Initial setup of the RPi is the same as any computer and uses keyboard, mouse and screen.  Then installing the astro software is just a matter of following a list of commands and copy/pasting them into the Terminal.  Probably easier than what JOC has done.