New: ASI533mc-pro

[Adam J]

Very interesting OSC sensor at a very interesting price. 

https://www.highpointscientific.com/telescope-accessories/astro-photography/ccd-cameras/zwo-cmos-cameras/zwo-asi533mc-pro-usb-3-cooled-color-camera-asi533mc-p

In a great many applications this is likely preferable to the ASI183mc-pro as at focal lengths longer than 400mm (or less even) the pixels on the 183 start looking a little small. This will also be a much more sensitive camera with the read noise / unit area being much lower than the 183 while having just as much QE. 

The ASI533mc will be well matched for focal lengths from 250mm to 750mm.

Of note is the 14Bit A/D as opposed to the 12Bit on the ASi183mc-pro.

Also just look at the full well!! and read noise values, the dynamic range on this sensor will be off the chart. 

3000 x 3000 pixels makes for interesting framing as its quite a rare thing to get a square sensor. On the positive side it will put little demand on the optics.  

See comparison with 183 below at 400mm focal length. 

In essence what I am saying is that at the proposed price I can think of very few reasons to chose a 183 (unless you want mono) once this is released and most of those are very niche.

• Sensor: IMX533 Square Back-Illuminated CMOS
• Resolution: 3008 x 3008
• Pixel Size: 3.76 μm
• Sensor Size: 11.31 mm x 11.31 mm
• Max FPS at Full Resolution: 20 FPS
• Read Noise: 1.0e-3.8e
• QE Peak: >80%
• Full Well: 50,000 e-
• Exposure Range: 32 μs - 2000 s
• ADC: 14 bit

I hope / expect this to set you back under £1000 in the UK, preferably closer to £900 but no one has it listed here yet. More than that and it competes with the ASI294mc pro on price leaving the only real advantage being the smaller pixels.   

Would love to try one of these with something like a WO Redcat as part of a portable setup. 

Adam 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Adam J

[JamesF]

It's the free ZWO keychain that really sells it for me :D

There was a thread a few weeks back with a photo of an "unknown" ZWO camera.  I wonder if this is it?  I'll have to see if I can find that thread again.

James

[pete_l]

Now we're talking!
An astronomy camera with a sensible 1:1 aspect ratio.
That still "wastes" a lot of the projected image from killingly expensive telescopes - only 64% of the light from a circular objective hits a square sensor, But it is a definite improvement over 4:3 and (worse) 16:9 formats, where even more photons slip past.

[vlaiv]

Not sure why there is absolutely zero info from ZWO. Neither website nor forum mentions these (as far as I can tell - both 6200 model and this one 533).

Even High Point Scientific info is questionable.

It says that it is IMX571 sensor under specs tab:

It mentions APS-C sensor size in text:

It looks like there is in fact IMX571 in the form of ASI2600mc-pro - which is APS-C sized sensor, same pixel specs (3.76um and 50K full well - a bit large for such small pixel size, I wonder how they managed to do that?) but only 3.5e read noise vs 3.8e for 533 model. Price is of course much higher.

 

[JamesF]

17 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Not sure why there is absolutely zero info from ZWO. Neither website nor forum mentions these (as far as I can tell - both 6200 model and this one 533).

I have a suspicion that ZWO develop and build some cameras that never actually make it to full production runs.  I guess it's possible that vendors know about some of these plans before they're actually ready to go to market and then the camera gets withdrawn?

James

[vlaiv]

12 minutes ago, JamesF said:

I have a suspicion that ZWO develop and build some cameras that never actually make it to full production runs.  I guess it's possible that vendors know about some of these plans before they're actually ready to go to market and then the camera gets withdrawn?

James

Don't know. According to TS website - these will be in stock in just two weeks - at least 533 model:

[DaveS]

But do @FLO have any info they're willing / able to share?

[Ken82]

Zwo announced the cameras on Facebook and at NEAF 

[FLO]

23 minutes ago, DaveS said:

But do @FLO have any info they're willing / able to share?

We are always willing 🙂 

Looking through our communications ZWO mentioned the ASI533MC about ten days ago. We don't yet have a clear ETA. Our best guess is mid-Dec. 

It is a USB3 Cooled OSC camera with 256mb DDR3 buffer. 

Specification is: 

Sensor: Sony IMX533 Square Back-illuminated CMOS
Resolution: 3008×3008
Pixel Size: 3.76μm
Sensor Size: 11.31 x 11.31mm
Max FPS at full resolution: 20FPS
Read Noise: 1.0e-3.8e
QE peak: ＞80%
Full well: 50ke
Exposure Range: 32μs-2000s
ADC: 14bit

HTH, 

Steve 

[Adam J]

1 hour ago, vlaiv said:

Not sure why there is absolutely zero info from ZWO. Neither website nor forum mentions these (as far as I can tell - both 6200 model and this one 533).

Even High Point Scientific info is questionable.

It says that it is IMX571 sensor under specs tab:

It mentions APS-C sensor size in text:

It looks like there is in fact IMX571 in the form of ASI2600mc-pro - which is APS-C sized sensor, same pixel specs (3.76um and 50K full well - a bit large for such small pixel size, I wonder how they managed to do that?) but only 3.5e read noise vs 3.8e for 533 model. Price is of course much higher.

 

Yeah, what i put down is correct, thats just high point being rubbish and confusing the specs of the two models, as for the read noise. 3.5 / 3.8 are at zero gain, its much lower than that at 20dB gain. 

They are the same pixels as the ASI2600mc pro but the noise is slightly higher at low gain due to the quantization noise from the 14bit A/D vs the 16bit A/D.

Adam

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Adam J

[FLO]

Regarding the other new ZWO camera, the ASI2600MC-P, we don't have an official ETA for that one either but its specification is: 

ASI2600MC
Sensor: Sony IMX571 Back-illuminated CMOS
Resolution: 6248×4176
Pixel Size: 3.76μm
Sensor Size: 23.5mm*15.7mm
Max FPS at full resolution: 3.51FPS
Read Noise: 1.0e-3.3e
QE peak: ＞80%
Full well: 50ke
Exposure Range: 32μs-2000s
ADC: 16bit
 

[vlaiv]

Just now, Adam J said:

Yeah, what i put down is correct, thatsjust highpoint peing rubbish and confusing the specs of the two models, as for the read noise. 3.5 / 3.8 are at zero gain, its much lower than that at 20dB gain. 

They are the same pixels as the ASI2600mc pro but the noise is slightly higher at low gain due to the quantization noise from the 14bit A/D vs the 16bit A/D.

Adam

 

Do you happen to have that graph that ZWO readily publishes for their camera models?

Interested in read noise vs gain part.

[Adam J]

46 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Don't know. According to TS website - these will be in stock in just two weeks - at least 533 model:

MY GOD ONLY 772 euros! That really will kill a chunk of the 183's market segment. 

[Adam J]

10 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Do you happen to have that graph that ZWO readily publishes for their camera models?

Interested in read noise vs gain part.

No I don't, but they do quote a range from 1e - 3.5e gain dependent. Normally for ZWO the higher figure quoted is zero gain and the lower figure 30dB gain. So a more useful 20dB will be some place in the middle but closer to 1e than 3.5e I should think, my guess around 1.4e. 

Adam

Edited November 11, 2019 by Adam J

[vlaiv]

1 minute ago, Adam J said:

MY GOD ONLY 772 euros! That really will kill a chunk of the 183's market segment. 

That price is excluding VAT. I'm outside EU so exported goods are sold without EU VAT. Price is actually about 32-33% higher for me than that (10% customs fee and then 20% VAT on all of it including postage).

[FLO]

I think the confusion comes from retailers wanting to be the first to mention something new. Whichever retailer is first to add a new product to their website usually has a SEO advantage so there is a temptation to put something up ASAP then add info (and correct typos!) later. I confess we might have done the same if we were not so preoccupied with preparing for IAS this week ☺️

Steve 

[Adam J]

5 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

That price is excluding VAT. I'm outside EU so exported goods are sold without EU VAT. Price is actually about 32-33% higher for me than that (10% customs fee and then 20% VAT on all of it including postage).

Ah well that will make it about £850 in UK pounds including tax. Still that is dam good, very close to the ASI183mc pro that FLO currently sell for £799....unless you really want those tiny pixels for some specific use case £50 more is well worth it. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Adam J

[Ken82]

Asi 6200 

Sorry don’t have a graph for the asi 533

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Ken82

[vlaiv]

1 minute ago, Ken82 said:

Asi 6200 

Sorry don’t have a graph for the asi 533

That one is pure beauty, but with price to match .

If it's well behaved sensor (in terms of amp glow / darks / FPN and calibration in general) - it's going to be real hit (for anyone who can justify the cost). My only concern is data size. Single calibrated frame is going to be around 234MB or so.

[Ken82]

I’ll have to just tell my wife this years Xmas bonus wasn’t quite as good as expected 😁

[Adam J]

46 minutes ago, Ken82 said:

Asi 6200 

Sorry don’t have a graph for the asi 533

 

Unfortunately it is likely to be different in due to the 14bit vs 16bit A/D. Although this does give a slight indication. 

 

[smr]

How would the ASI 2600 and QHY268C compare? 

 

[Adam J]

1 hour ago, smr said:

How would the ASI 2600 and QHY268C compare? 

 

Better but more than twice the cost. This is more in competition with the ASI294mc pro and the ASI183mc pro sitting between them in terms of price and closer to the 294 then the 183 in terms of performance, its a budget cooled dedicated OSC that I would expect people to choose as a first camera. The ASI2600 and QHY268c are more mid range, they represent a step up from the ASI071mc-pro as they have larger APS-C sensors and are in a higher price category. The per sensor area performance will be similar between the 533 and 2600, so what your really paying extra for is additional sensor area, just make sure your scope will cover a APS-C with a flat field, a surprising number will not. After that its a case of what can your budget stretch to. 

Adam   

Edited November 13, 2019 by Adam J

[smr]

Ah thanks for that I should have worded it different... I meant how do just the 2600 and 268 compare to eachother, as I'm interested in an APS-C OSC and may be willing to stretch to 1.5-2k for one... 

I hear ZWO have frosting issues with some of their cameras but QHY don't ?

 

And how does hte 294MC Pro compare to these two apart from the obvious sensor size difference? Half the price I'd imagine if those two are coming in around £2k. I think you can pre-order the 268C for £1,800 at the moment.

Edited November 13, 2019 by smr

[Star101]

13 minutes ago, smr said:

I hear ZWO have frosting issues with some of their cameras but QHY don't ?

Having used my ZWO 183mm pro for some time now, I can categorically say the camera does NOT have frost issues.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Star101