Using two ASI cameras (Imaging and Guidcam) issues

[souls33k3r]

Hi All,

I just wanted to ask if someone uses 2 different models of ZWO ASI camera and have not had issues? and how have they fixed it if they had any.

So last night was a rare clear night after nearly 2 weeks of rain so thought i should give the OAG a go but that turned out to be a mistake. Initially i wanted to see if i can get both my main imaging camera (1600) and guide camera (174) in focus so fired up SharpCap and checked my imaging camera and that was in focus. Switched to guidecam (by selecting the option in SharpCap > Camera) and i couldn't see anything out of it. I could see a smudge but didn't make much of it at this time. Fired up PHD2 and without having to change or move anything in the setup (already had a profile made in PHD2), i could see a lot of stars.

In SGP i'm using ZWO camera  and in PHD2 i'm using ASI Camera (1) (ASCOM) . When i connected the guidecam, straight away the SNR of my stars was silly high (the best i saw was 700) and in PHD2 (brain icon > Camera Tab and also in Guiding > Calibration tab). I was well pleased with that. While i was still in the brain icons, i wanted to check and change if neccessary the focal length of the guidescope to the main imaging scope but noticed that the Pixel Size value was showing 3.8. I changed to 5.8 (174 pixel value) but some times that value remained there but most of the time that value kept on changing back to 3.8. I have been using QHY5LL-ii-Mono camera as a guidecam in the past but that's a 3.75 pixel and i know 3.8 is the pixel size of my ASI 1600 camera so why is it that value kept on getting populated back? So i think even though i was using two different names of the drivers, PHD2 kept on using my ASI1600 as my guidecam and that seems to have been causing a conflict with each other. I say conflict because throughout the entire night i kept having issues in SGP where my sub were coming out completely black and PHD2 kepts on showing grey screen. One or the other kept on happening and most of the time both black image in SGP and grey screen in PHD2. A restart of the laptop works fine for 2 minutes but then it kept on going back to the same issue again.

Please help, it's quite frustrating to have lost and wasted clear night on software issues.

Thanks in advance.

[souls33k3r]

Couple of things i will check later (need to head out right now). Firstly in PHD2, i need to check the camera setup take (under connect icon) to verify that even though the same of the drivers were different, PHD2 was indeed using 174 and not 1600 camera. Also i've just read that ASI1600 and some guidecams do not like sharing the same USB hub/cable so will try that as well. #Frustrating

[AKB]

I’m currently using two ASI cameras: a 120M for guiding; a 294MC Pro for imaging.  

For the PHD guiding I use the native driver, and for imaging in Nebulosity I use the ASCOM one – it just does t seem to work with the native driver.

With this arrangement, all seems to work quite happily.  I’ve never quite understood SharpCap (does it cope with dithering?) so can’t offer any advice specifically on that.  I have recently upgraded everything (ASCOM, PHD, drivers, ...) to the latest versions.  

Suffice to say that there are enough pieces in an imaging chain to almost guarantee that when a problem occurs it’s going to be a bit of a challenge to isolate.  I would certainly start by trying another image capture software, just to see, and swapping to chosen drivers over.  You don’t have a realistic alternative for guiding, IMHO.

Good luck, and let us know of any progress/solutions.

Tony

[Dr_Ju_ju]

Yep, I use a 1600 for main imager & 120 for guiding....  Don't use the Ascom drivers, use the native ASI Camera drivers (current v6.0.3.23) then in PHD2 you can select the appropriate camera (outlined red box)

In SGPro 

 

[souls33k3r]

17 minutes ago, AKB said:

I’m currently using two ASI cameras: a 120M for guiding; a 294MC Pro for imaging.  

For the PHD guiding I use the native driver, and for imaging in Nebulosity I use the ASCOM one – it just does t seem to work with the native driver.

With this arrangement, all seems to work quite happily.  I’ve never quite understood SharpCap (does it cope with dithering?) so can’t offer any advice specifically on that.  I have recently upgraded everything (ASCOM, PHD, drivers, ...) to the latest versions.  

Suffice to say that there are enough pieces in an imaging chain to almost guarantee that when a problem occurs it’s going to be a bit of a challenge to isolate.  I would certainly start by trying another image capture software, just to see, and swapping to chosen drivers over.  You don’t have a realistic alternative for guiding, IMHO.

Good luck, and let us know of any progress/solutions.

Tony

I was using SharpCap only so that i can get a live view of both the main imaging camera and guidecam. I have been using QHY5L-II with great success but only switched to ASI174 for larger chip size and fov for OAG. I do reckon that the drivers are conflicting so that would be my first protocol of trying to troubleshoot this issue. 

17 minutes ago, Dr_Ju_ju said:

Yep, I use a 1600 for main imager & 120 for guiding....  Don't use the Ascom drivers, use the native ASI Camera drivers (current v6.0.3.23) then in PHD2 you can select the appropriate camera (outlined red box)

In SGPro 

 

Cheers mate, good shout. I will most definitely give this one a go when I come back home later I'm the afternoon and see how things behave. I was going to go and check and select the correct camera if PHD2 had been using my main imaging camera instead of guidecam but will give the native ZWO drivers a go. 

[WanderingEye]

Hmmm, I don’t think you can or should use two instances of the Ascom driver, so as has been said, use the native, or the native on one and the Ascom on the other..

[souls33k3r]

25 minutes ago, WanderingEye said:

Hmmm, I don’t think you can or should use two instances of the Ascom driver, so as has been said, use the native, or the native on one and the Ascom on the other..

I have been using the native in SGP and ascom in PHD2. 

[Anthonyexmouth]

I use the ASCOM drivers for PHD2 and APT for my 290 guide and 294 imaging camera with no issues. Also use sharpcap for PA. 

[souls33k3r]

1 hour ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

I use the ASCOM drivers for PHD2 and APT for my 290 guide and 294 imaging camera with no issues. Also use sharpcap for PA. 

Interesting. I guess I'll go and check first what camera in the camera setup of PHD2 gets the priority. Hopefully it'll be a simple fix to what was the least to say a frustrating night battling this issue. 

[WanderingEye]

2 hours ago, souls33k3r said:

I have been using the native in SGP and ascom in PHD2. 

I think I read somewhere that with APT you have to connect the cameras in a certain order.....not sure if this would help...

[Anthonyexmouth]

1 hour ago, WanderingEye said:

I think I read somewhere that with APT you have to connect the cameras in a certain order.....not sure if this would help...

iv'e never noticed an issue, sometimes i fire up sharpcap first then phd2 then close sharpcap after PA then APT. other times i start APT then PHD2, doesn't seem to make any difference what order i start the app or connect the camera. What does make a difference is poor quality usb cables. that is the main offender in connection issues. 

[souls33k3r]

Right so finally took some time and looked at this. It was indeed that the camera settings automatically started to use ASI1600 rather than the ASI174. Now the reason why I didn't think of this before is because when I first created this profile, I didn't select the guidecam but then this (ASI174) was the only connected camera at that time. 

Any way, looked in to the settings of the camera profile and changed it from ASI1600 to ASI174. 

Just for fun, I looked at the ZWO native drivers option as well and that gives me the drop down to select the camera but that defaults to ASI1600 for some reason. Any way, something else to remember checking from now on. 

Thanks for all your help peeps. Much appreciated. 

[Davey-T]

Just so you know you weren't suffering alone last night my dual rig which worked fine a few nights ago went into melt down, whichever focuser I tried to use it kept reverting to the same one then couldn't get two cameras to play nicely together, after much plugging, unplugging, rebooting, swearing uninstalling / reinstalling stuff, more swearing it all decided to work, luckily I started setting up early and got it running just as the California Nebula hove into view over the rooftops.

All I can say is thank god I'm not guiding 🤣

Dave

PS: Which mount have you ended up using ?

[souls33k3r]

On 03/10/2019 at 16:40, Davey-T said:

Just so you know you weren't suffering alone last night my dual rig which worked fine a few nights ago went into melt down, whichever focuser I tried to use it kept reverting to the same one then couldn't get two cameras to play nicely together, after much plugging, unplugging, rebooting, swearing uninstalling / reinstalling stuff, more swearing it all decided to work, luckily I started setting up early and got it running just as the California Nebula hove into view over the rooftops.

All I can say is thank god I'm not guiding 🤣

Dave

PS: Which mount have you ended up using ?

Dang, well even though you and I both were having somewhat similar issues, mine was totally related to PHD2 for some reason choosing and using the ASI1600 as my guide camera. I have now learned my lesson and will keep an eye on it before I begin the session.

[retret66]

I use 3 asi1600mm at the same time. I use ascom on all of them. All you have to do is select ascom and pick the correct "ID", each one has a unique ID, Do not let your imaging software pick the camera for you or do not pick from the selection while in ascom, click properties and select the camera there. Heck I can use 10 ASI cameras at the same time and will not have an issue

Edited October 5, 2019 by retret66

[souls33k3r]

1 minute ago, retret66 said:

I use 3 asi1600mm at the same time. I use ascom on all of them. All you have to do is select ascom and pick the correct "ID", each one has a unique ID, Do not let your imaging software pick the camera for you or do not pick from the selection while in ascom, click properties and select the camera there

I've now chosen ZWO camera (I believe this is native driver support) which gives you a drop down to select the appropriate camera from. Worked so far, only time will tell

[retret66]

2 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

I've now chosen ZWO camera (I believe this is native driver support) which gives you a drop down to select the appropriate camera from. Worked so far, only time will tell

This is where you select(see arrow), do not select just from the drop down. Use ascom on all of them, dont mix with native.

[retret66]

If you dont select it manually, the issue arise when one camera briefly disconnects, this is where it mess up because the software will find the wrong one and will cause a conflict

 

[spillage]

I have been having similar issues in sgpro. I find that sometimes the guide and imaging cam get mixed up. But if on start up I opened up a old saved sequence and then connected the equipment it would be fine. Sure its the user.