Telescope for naked eye viewing and astrophotography

[Andrew Harding]

The time has come for me to sell my old telescope because it's taking up too much room. I currently own a Skywatcher 200P Dobsonian, which I haven't used for ages because it takes two people just to get the mount outside, yet alone mount the tube on to it (that part I could do by myself and wouldn't be so bad, but it's the size of the mount that is the primary issue, both in portability and in the room it takes up). I've been doing some research into a replacement telescope, but there are so many options that I thought it would be better to discuss it before I made any decisions.

 

My main goal is to retain the naked eye visibility of my current telescope. I do not wish to reduce the aperture size (at all, or too much) because I know exactly what I would be missing out on. I have only used my Dobsonian in my back garden here in the West Midlands, Dudley, and despite the light pollution in the area, the telescope enabled me to view galaxies such as NGC 4526, which I never expected (obviously the apparent magnitude is an important factor there, but to see a galaxy over 55 million light years away when I never expected it and couldn't see it on the star chart I was using, was amazing - I knew it had to be a galaxy, but I had to search online to find out exactly what I had been looking at). My secondary goal is to dip my toes into astrophotography, with the potential of upgrading components of the new set-up to further that goal if I so wished. I do wish for something more portable, although I accept that 8" is the extreme upper end of portability, and all telescopes in that range are going to offer complications one way or another (no matter the telescope, there is going to be a fair bit of setting up of the mount and assembly, but if I can handle it by myself in stages and don't have to struggle with a huge single base, it's always a plus).

 

I did read about the abilities of the Skywatcher 130PDS in astrophotography, and considered for a moment that I didn't need such a large telescope, but I don't wish to sacrifice the ability to use it for naked eye viewing. If I didn't want to pursue astrophotography that much, such a downgrade in aperture would feel like a huge step back for me. I need to get rid of my current telescope, but I also don't want to lose the viewing power of an 8" telescope. I have looked at the Skywatcher 200PDS, which would allow me to retain the naked eye visibility, and the Orion SkyView Pro 8. I am aware that the overall cost is influenced by the mount I choose (motorised or non-motorised), and these can be sold either with or without mount as well, and also that the mount is key to a stable astrophotography rig. At the moment I don't exactly have a budget, although I am not looking to spend £000's (at least in the beginning...it's always better for my nerves to do it gradually over time). The money I get from selling my old telescope can go towards any new equipment. For any initial attempts at astrophotography, I have access to a Canon DSLR camera (as if it were that simple!).

 

So, any advice and suggestions? Many thanks.

[heliumstar]

From what you say maybe 8" SCT? The same light gathering capability and pretty much easier to live with if you don't have space.

There's one for sale on ABS  https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=151951 - looks like great package for the money.

[jetstream]

C8

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi @Andrew Harding and welcome to SGL. 

Another +1 for the C8/SCT. 

[dweller25]

@Andrew Harding

Have you considered an 8” Orion Optics dobsonian - the OTA and base are much lighter then the equivalent Skywatcher ?

The C8 would be the next best option but I would suspect the 8” OO  Dobsonian will outperform it.

Edited July 27, 2019 by dweller25

[Andrew Harding]

Thank you for the replies. I've taken a quick look at the C8 SCT, and it does like quite expensive brand new, although it is very compact and portable, which would allow me to take it on holiday with me if I wished to, and it has a motorised mount as well.

5 hours ago, dweller25 said:

@Andrew Harding

Have you considered an 8” Orion Optics dobsonian - the OTA and base are much lighter then the equivalent Skywatcher ?

The C8 would be the next best option but I would suspect the 8” OO  Dobsonian will outperform it.

I'm trying to get away from Dobsonians. It's not just the weight, it's the sheer size of it.

How would the C8 SCT cope with DSOs, especially galaxies? It looks to have quite a high focal power of 10 (not that I am that familiar with what this means, but from my basic understanding, the lower the number, the better it is for viewing fainter objects, such as galaxies).

When I contacted Orion Telescopes & Binoculars, they recommended the Orion Sirius 8 EQ-G GoTo Reflector Telescope for a good all-rounder. I asked about the Orion 8" f/3.9 Newtonian Astrograph Reflector Telescope, but was advised that isn't for naked eye viewing as I would see the secondary mirror. What I took away from the SkyView Pro 8 is that it can be upgraded later, but that the non-goto mount that came with it wouldn't be suitable for astrophotography due to the weight limit (so no very short exposures with a proper DSLR).

There's just so many different options and different mounts, it can be daunting.

[happy-kat]

You can image many DSO with a camera and lens you don't have to use a heavy telescope aimed at visual observing.

[Erling G-P]

I have a Skywatcher 200PDS on a HEQ5 Pro mount.  Don't know if it would take up less space than your current telescope - the OTA would be roughly the same size I think.  I got this last year, with the primary goal of getting started with astro photography, but also with an opportunity for direct observing.  Most here will say that the mount is too light for the OTA, and it is sensitive to wind, I'll give them that - it has to be very still or I can't image.  It's a compromise I've had to make, with a history of hernia operations, I'm not comfortable with having to carry too heavy pieces of equipment repeatedly.  With my combo, the heaviest single piece is the mount head, at 12 kg.

I've taken my first fumbling steps into AP, but have also had some very satisfying sessions with observing - stunning views of the moon, and despite the current unfavorable positions of the planets, my first ever direct look at Jupiter's GRS - I've waited 40 years for this!! (Could never see it with the 60mm refractor I got as a teenager). Saturn has been amazing too, with the Cassini division in the rings, and cloud bands on the planet + clear colour difference between rings & planet. In the 60mm, it was always just a featureless 'planet with ears'.

With regards to AP, an SCT like suggested above would be a hard way to start, from what I gather in these pages - the long focal length requiring much more precise tracking / guiding.  So far I've used my own scope without guiding.  Have had a couple of attempts at the Ring Nebula with a 2x barlow, but images just get too fuzzy due to tracking not being precise enough. If this is the equivalent of a scope with twice the focal length, then it proves the point of tougher demands.

I'm attaching a few of my best shots so far.  All with an unmodded Nikon D7000 and stacked from 30-sec exposures - just to give you an idea of what is at least possible for a beginner with no processing skills.

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

1 hour ago, Andrew Harding said:

How would the C8 SCT cope with DSOs, especially galaxies? It looks to have quite a high focal power of 10 (not that I am that familiar with what this means, but from my basic understanding, the lower the number, the better it is for viewing fainter objects, such as galaxies

I actually use my C8 SE SCT for taking to a dark skies area to view galaxies. It serves well for this.  Few galaxies are large enough to fill the field of view, and even fewer have a part that fills the FOV when viewed visually.  The f10 focal ratio is not material - in practice one uses a magnification that best brings out the galaxy from the background - I have used up to x133.

If you want an 8" scope for visual use that is a lot easier to manage than an 8" Dob, you will have great trouble finding anything more suited than the C8 SE.

I firmly advise that you forget about using the same scope for visual and for astrophotography.  The requirements both for scope and mount are so different as to render this impractical. (Before you ask, the C8 on the SE mount is unusable for deep-space astrophotography and a pain to use for planetary astrophotography, the latter requiring an entirely different technique.  The C8 OTA can be used for astrophotography, but then we're back to looking at bulky, heavy and expensive mounts.)

[dweller25]

12 hours ago, Andrew Harding said:

Thank you for the replies. I've taken a quick look at the C8 SCT, and it does like quite expensive brand new, although it is very compact and portable, which would allow me to take it on holiday with me if I wished to, and it has a motorised mount as well.

I'm trying to get away from Dobsonians. It's not just the weight, it's the sheer size of it.

How would the C8 SCT cope with DSOs, especially galaxies? It looks to have quite a high focal power of 10 (not that I am that familiar with what this means, but from my basic understanding, the lower the number, the better it is for viewing fainter objects, such as galaxies).

When I contacted Orion Telescopes & Binoculars, they recommended the Orion Sirius 8 EQ-G GoTo Reflector Telescope for a good all-rounder. I asked about the Orion 8" f/3.9 Newtonian Astrograph Reflector Telescope, but was advised that isn't for naked eye viewing as I would see the secondary mirror. What I took away from the SkyView Pro 8 is that it can be upgraded later, but that the non-goto mount that came with it wouldn't be suitable for astrophotography due to the weight limit (so no very short exposures with a proper DSLR).

There's just so many different options and different mounts, it can be daunting.

 

I would suggest you go to your local astro group and take a look at what they have.

Edited July 28, 2019 by dweller25

[newbie alert]

If there was ever a scope that was great at both visual and astrophotography and visual we would all have one..astrophotography in itself covers alot of ground...from doing milky way shots with a camera and lens, moon and planetary shots, solar, galaxies and nebulae all require slightly different setups..

Where abouts are you Andrew? Someone could be close by to sort of try before you buy to see if it suits you first

Edited July 28, 2019 by newbie alert
Added info

[Ricochet]

Definitely try to find somewhere you can see these scopes before you buy one. An 8" reflector on an eq mount is even bigger and more difficult to set up than the dob version in my book. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Ricochet

[Andrew Harding]

Thanks for the replies. It's looking like this is going to be more tricky than I hoped it would be. Although, I suspect if I went for a smaller telescope with DSO astrophotography in mind, plus looked for a second hand goto mount, and then focused on a non-goto mounted telescope for naked eye viewing, it might save me more money in the long run. Just a thought at the moment.

Those are some amazing photos, Erling G-P.

On 28/07/2019 at 10:09, newbie alert said:

If there was ever a scope that was great at both visual and astrophotography and visual we would all have one..astrophotography in itself covers alot of ground...from doing milky way shots with a camera and lens, moon and planetary shots, solar, galaxies and nebulae all require slightly different setups..

Where abouts are you Andrew? Someone could be close by to sort of try before you buy to see if it suits you first

I live in the West Midlands, on the edge of Sedgley, sandwiched between Dudley and Wolverhampton. The closest group to me looks to be Wolverhampton, so I could contact them. Walsall would be the second nearest.

[Erling G-P]

4 hours ago, Andrew Harding said:

Thanks for the replies. It's looking like this is going to be more tricky than I hoped it would be. Although, I suspect if I went for a smaller telescope with DSO astrophotography in mind, plus looked for a second hand goto mount, and then focused on a non-goto mounted telescope for naked eye viewing, it might save me more money in the long run. Just a thought at the moment.

Those are some amazing photos, Erling G-P.

I live in the West Midlands, on the edge of Sedgley, sandwiched between Dudley and Wolverhampton. The closest group to me looks to be Wolverhampton, so I could contact them. Walsall would be the second nearest.

 

Thanks, you're too kind. Compared to what experienced and skilled imagers are making, they're crap, but being new at this, I'm still happy with them. There's something immensely satisfying with making your own images; I'll never forget the exitement I felt when taking my very first photo through the scope, of M92, when the familiar globular cluster form appeared on the small screen of the camera

I should mention that the first one, of M81 is cropped, while the others are the full field you get with a 'crop sensor' DSLR and a 200PDS (with 0.9 reducer / coma corrector)

With regards to using my setup for visual, the biggest inconveniences are that an EQ mount rarely moves the way you want it to (up/down, left/right), so manually slewing it onto a target can be both confusing and frustrating.  Using the goto mostly solves this though.  The other is that the eyepiece tends to end up in ackward positions. This can be countered by rotating the OTA within the tube rings though.

As mentioned, my main goal is imaging, so for the time being, I live with the above mentioned problems when using it visually, rather than having to invest in two scopes / mounts.  Best solution for you would of course depend on your priorities, and what compromises you may or may not be willing to live with.

Regards,

Erling G-P

[MarsG76]

On 28/07/2019 at 08:19, Cosmic Geoff said:

I actually use my C8 SE SCT for taking to a dark skies area to view galaxies. It serves well for this.  Few galaxies are large enough to fill the field of view, and even fewer have a part that fills the FOV when viewed visually.  The f10 focal ratio is not material - in practice one uses a magnification that best brings out the galaxy from the background - I have used up to x133.

If you want an 8" scope for visual use that is a lot easier to manage than an 8" Dob, you will have great trouble finding anything more suited than the C8 SE.

I firmly advise that you forget about using the same scope for visual and for astrophotography.  The requirements both for scope and mount are so different as to render this impractical. (Before you ask, the C8 on the SE mount is unusable for deep-space astrophotography and a pain to use for planetary astrophotography, the latter requiring an entirely different technique.  The C8 OTA can be used for astrophotography, but then we're back to looking at bulky, heavy and expensive mounts.)

I totally agree with the above... I use a C8 for imaging on a CGEM mount and it works well, for portability a 8SE or Evolution 8 (or even a 9.25") would be great is only observing....

Visually I saw plenty of DSOs through the 8" SCT, from globs to galaxies to nebulae, and seen them quite well as far as visual astronomy goes..... Planets and the moon look great too.

I to recommend a C8 or C9.25 SCT in your case.