Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ problem !

[LightBucket]

13 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Do you know for certain if the old GPCAM MT9M034M works?  That would be a useful datapoint.

James

Have sent Jasem a message, so will let you know...

[fozzybear]

if your rpi is connected to your local network open a browser on you desktop pc and point to this http://astroberry.local/desktop/ this will allow you to connect to your rpi remotely you will need to input the astroberry default password unless you have changed it to connect/open session and as lightbucket says connect to your rpi then open kstars on rpi and click on the ekos-kstars icon then edit profile as picture above

[JamesF]

Bah, just typed a response only to have it wiped out by a page switch when I clicked to see the latest posts

Basically my point was that we need to make sure we all have the same understanding of the word "driver" here.  There are the low-level drivers implemented in the SDK from Altair, and there are the indilib drivers, layered on top of that SDK.

The first ones, the low-level drivers, can possibly be switched out for different versions depending on which entrypoints are in use for indilib.  I've done exactly that with other applications and gone between having the MT9M034M working and not working (whilst another camera works in both instances).

James

[stash_old]

13 hours ago, LightBucket said:

Not sure how you are trying to run the driver, but you do it through your Ekos profile by adding the driver there...not sure what you are doing when you say the Kstars device manager..!! Does not make sense to me sorry...

Think he means the device manager in Indi devices - never really understood why they are there a bit confusing - well for me ?  

[halli]

Thanks for the useful information everyone.......

I have reviewed and I will try and summarize where I am

9 minutes ago, stash_old said:

13 hours ago, LightBucket said:

Not sure how you are trying to run the driver, but you do it through your Ekos profile by adding the driver there...not sure what you are doing when you say the Kstars device manager..!! Does not make sense to me sorry...

Think he means the device manager in Indi devices - never really understood why they are there a bit confusing - well for me ?

After I upgraded the Astroberry image I tried to find the Altair driver in Ekos and couldn't find it in the Ekos profile.  This is why I went to the Kstars device manager as I felt that this should be a superset. 

As I mentioned when connected to the Pi I did find it in the Kstars device manager with the funny symbol which LightBucket explained that it meant that it was only available on the remote device, but it also had an associated  run and setup button.    These buttons were greyed out although I was connected to the Pi .   I subsequently found that when starting Ekos on the Pi that if I selected the remote bullet I could then see the new Altair driver  in the profile screen - so this made some sense I thought !

I must confess I get confused with the local and remote  terminology.  When I am using my desktop and have connected to the Pi device then yes I can understand that remote means the Pi.   However if I am connected to the Pi directly with out the desktop my logic tells me that the Pi is now the local device !  However it appears as if remote always means the Pi device - as I needed to select remote in Ekos to make it available even though I was connected to the Pi ??! Something tells me the system was designed to be always used from a connected device !  

Anyhow at least I am getting closer  - it would be simpler if the system was symmetrical in terms of drivers after upgrade  - not sure why the new drivers are only available on one device and are at a different status to the original drivers which is confusing.  Perhaps there is a sync command somewhere . I need some more tinkering to confirm understanding and a few beers ! I normally think better post midnight.........

[LightBucket]

3 hours ago, halli said:

Thanks for the useful information everyone.......

I have reviewed and I will try and summarize where I am

After I upgraded the Astroberry image I tried to find the Altair driver in Ekos and couldn't find it in the Ekos profile.  This is why I went to the Kstars device manager as I felt that this should be a superset. 

As I mentioned when connected to the Pi I did find it in the Kstars device manager with the funny symbol which LightBucket explained that it meant that it was only available on the remote device, but it also had an associated  run and setup button.    These buttons were greyed out although I was connected to the Pi .   I subsequently found that when starting Ekos on the Pi that if I selected the remote bullet I could then see the new Altair driver  in the profile screen - so this made some sense I thought !

I must confess I get confused with the local and remote  terminology.  When I am using my desktop and have connected to the Pi device then yes I can understand that remote means the Pi.   However if I am connected to the Pi directly with out the desktop my logic tells me that the Pi is now the local device !  However it appears as if remote always means the Pi device - as I needed to select remote in Ekos to make it available even though I was connected to the Pi ??! Something tells me the system was designed to be always used from a connected device !  

Anyhow at least I am getting closer  - it would be simpler if the system was symmetrical in terms of drivers after upgrade  - not sure why the new drivers are only available on one device and are at a different status to the original drivers which is confusing.  Perhaps there is a sync command somewhere . I need some more tinkering to confirm understanding and a few beers ! I normally think better post midnight.........

As long as you update both the rpi and the client PC then drivers should be on both, just run the updater on the rpi to get  latest drivers, 

BUT if you are using ekos from a windows PC then none of the drivers will be available on there as it can’t run INdI...I use a Linux PC so all available on both Clint and remote rpi.. I have a dual boot window and Linux system.

As for the remote terminology, any pc that you are connecting too from your main PC is the remote one, and your main PC is the client... HTH

[LightBucket]

Just read your post again, and if you connect directly to the PI from say within VNC from your main PC, or by connecting mouse keyboard and monitor to the rpi, and run the Ekos on the PI then that should be local, you are correct...

But if like me you run Kstars / Ekos from your desktop PC and just use the rpi as an INdI server ( never use Kstars / Ekos on the rpi is too slow) then that is a remote set up...

[halli]

Thanks for your responses and I agree LightBucket.   And of course which I had forgotten my PC is windows and therefore drivers are only available on the Pi !  Silly me ! 

I decided to just use the Pi with a known good guide camera ie a ZWO.   I used the Kstars/Ekos on the Pi to run the driver.   I first used the Kstars device manager set to Local and pressed the driver start button and voila the camera connected.     Having proven this I then went to Ekos and selected the ZWO driver in local mode in the profile screen and it didn't work.   Must be a config issue with Ekos I guess - still fiddling...….

[halli]

Bit of an update

Ekos now works with the ZWO driver and connects when  local is selected in the profile and when selected to remote it fails to connect.  This is as expected as I am only using the Pi which is therefore the local device.

Now comes the issue   - when I connect the Altair kit I can only see the new Altair driver in the device list on Ekos when I select remote in the profile screen.  I cannot see the driver when I select Local !!!  And as expected if I try and connect using Ekos to Altair when remote is selected it wont work.   This does not make sense !   The Altair driver is also greyed out in the Kstars device manager so I cant try it from there. 

It appears that the system thinks the Altair driver is on the remote device which it cant be.  As stated above I have a windows PC and upgraded the Pi which is the device I am connecting to so it must have the driver.

I must be missing something here (probably something simple) oh soothsayers  ???  Any views please ??

 

[stash_old]

You confusion is because you are mixing Remote PC to PC connection via RDP or VNC - this has nothing to do with (and Ekos/Kstars knows nothing about it ) Kstars/Ekos/Indi.

Indi uses client server approach to allow device servers (via INDISERVER program) to run on more than one device - e.g. 3 RPI3 , 1  Mount,2 Camera,3 GPS would and is possible.

Then you have Kstars/Ekos in the above set up of 3 RPI's it could run on any of the 3 RPI's or on another PC altogether.

If Kstars/Ekos ran on the "RPI MOUNT" then the mount is local but the other 2 RPI's (Camera and GPS ) are remote ( I will not confuse you more about MASTER SERVER - but if interested read this https://indilib.org/support/tutorials/159-indi-on-multiple-devices.html  and this https://indilib.org/support/tutorials/150-painless-remote-control-with-ekos-indi.html). How you then connect to the RPI MOUNT (say VNC) has nothing to do with Kstars/Ekos/Indi - you have to think VNC and KSTARS etc as 2 different things and are unaware of each other.

If Kstars/Ekos runs on ,lets say , a desktop then all 3 RPI's and there devices are remote and will have indiserver programs(and ONLY indiserver) running on the RPI's - something like "indiserver Indi_telescope_eqmod" - As I say running 3 does mean 1 of the RPI's would be "Master" and would probabpy look something like 'indiserver indi_telescope_eqmod "ZWO120"@rpi2 "GPSD"@rpi3' here RPI Mount would be the Master but would still be classed as "remote" if Kstars/Ekos are on the desktop. On Rpi 2 (where the camera is physically connected by cable) the command would be "indiserver indi_zwo_ccd" and on RPI 3 (where GPS is physically connected) it would be "indiserver indi_gpsd".  

Now it goes without saying that its best possible practice to have the same version number of Indi running on all computers (RPI's and desktop). However he Forum have never answered my question on what would happen if ,for example, the desktop is not the same version. So I would suggest that you make sure that they are all on the same version. Plus unless told otherwise dont worry about being up to date (and certainly do not use NIGHTLY versions unless instructed otherwise).

Sorry if that's confused you more but you cant have a flexible system without grasping the tech picture but obviously all on 1 PC is the simplest and then ALL devices would be local even if you use VNC to connect to that PC.

[LightBucket]

On 19/01/2019 at 19:26, halli said:

Bit of an update

Ekos now works with the ZWO driver and connects when  local is selected in the profile and when selected to remote it fails to connect.  This is as expected as I am only using the Pi which is therefore the local device.

Now comes the issue   - when I connect the Altair kit I can only see the new Altair driver in the device list on Ekos when I select remote in the profile screen.  I cannot see the driver when I select Local !!!  And as expected if I try and connect using Ekos to Altair when remote is selected it wont work.   This does not make sense !   The Altair driver is also greyed out in the Kstars device manager so I cant try it from there. 

It appears that the system thinks the Altair driver is on the remote device which it cant be.  As stated above I have a windows PC and upgraded the Pi which is the device I am connecting to so it must have the driver.

I must be missing something here (probably something simple) oh soothsayers  ???  Any views please ??

 

I am confused a bit now, the last paragraph above, “it appears that is on the remote device, which it can’t be” , well the rpi IS the remote device so if that has been updated then, yes the driver should be on there....

when you say you are only using the pi, do you mean no other PC involved, so you have mouse, keyboard and monitor connected to the rpi, or you are connecting to it via VNC or teamviewer...as either way is known as local...as you are running Kstars from the PI and not from your PC..

[halli]

Hi Stash - really appreciate you taking the time to reply in detail.  I totally agree with our sentiments that it is necessary to understand the tech picture and I will certainly read the links you provided but feel I am in agreement and understand your description of the relationships between Kstars/Ekos, Indi and VNC.  Thanks for this 

Also thanks for your response LightBucket 

35 minutes ago, LightBucket said:

I am confused a bit now, the last paragraph above, “it appears that is on the remote device, which it can’t be” , well the rpi IS the remote device so if that has been updated then, yes the driver should be on there....

when you say you are only using the pi, do you mean no other PC involved, so you have mouse, keyboard and monitor connected to the rpi, or you are connecting to it via VNC or teamviewer...as either way is known as local...as you are running Kstars from the PI and not from your PC..

Yes I was just using the Pi with the camera connected to it with mouse,keyboard and monitor also connected to it ie without another PC using VNC !

I am running Kstars/Ekos on the Pi as well using the Astroberry image.    It is running the Indi server with local drivers connected to the cameras as well hosting Kstars/Ekos.    Surely this means that it is a local system and we are all agreed on that. 

When I want to connect to the ZWO ASI120MC using the Ekos profile page I therefore select local and the ZWO driver from the list on the local page  - I then run the Indi server and the driver is connected to the device and everything works.

This is what I would expect .

I know plug the Altair camera in instead of the ZWO on the same system expecting to do the same thing as above.  I go to the Ekos profile page and select local but the Altair device does not appear on the local list !  The Altair device only appears when I select remote on the profile page and coincidentally the Altair device together with other devices which were new devices installed by the upgrade I performed to Indi lib 1.7.6 !  All these devices have the weird status symbol which means the driver can only be  used on the remote server - but there isn't one !!!

Needless to say ,  if I select the Altair device using the remote page in Ekos when I try and run Indi server I get an error message saying cannot connect to the remote server !! 

I do not understand why under these conditions that Ekos thinks the  driver is on a remote server when there isn't one !    This was why I was questioning my understanding of local and remote but I after this discussion I am beginning to think that the system has got itself misconfigured somehow but do not understand why.  

The only other logic is that you can only perform the task by using a desktop PC and trying to connect from that - I would be grateful if you guys have  any comments on the above ?  Is my logic warped or flawed or are you broadly in agreement ?

 

[stash_old]

Screen Pictures please of what you do please - its hard to visualise what is wrong ?

PLus you cannot "see anything" in the drop down menu of a profile just a list of drivers to use remote or local !!!!!!  So you can choose the devices in the profile before ticking remote or local.   You are using Ekos add/edit/delete profile ?

[kens]

Could be a versioning conflict. There is a file drivers.xml which on the indi device sits under /usr/share/indi/ and contains all the drivers available. On the other hand, indiwebmanager lists out all the individual driver XML files in that folder so it finds devices that are not in drivers.xml.

So some applications end up (via interfacing software) relying on what's in drivers.xml whilst others use the folder contents. If drivers.xml is not up to date with the drivers installed that could explain what you are seeing.

Added: try setting the profile to remote with an IP address of localhost or 127.0.0.1

[LightBucket]

17 minutes ago, halli said:

Hi Stash - really appreciate you taking the time to reply in detail.  I totally agree with our sentiments that it is necessary to understand the tech picture and I will certainly read the links you provided but feel I am in agreement and understand your description of the relationships between Kstars/Ekos, Indi and VNC.  Thanks for this 

Also thanks for your response LightBucket 

Yes I was just using the Pi with the camera connected to it with mouse,keyboard and monitor also connected to it ie without another PC using VNC !

I am running Kstars/Ekos on the Pi as well using the Astroberry image.    It is running the Indi server with local drivers connected to the cameras as well hosting Kstars/Ekos.    Surely this means that it is a local system and we are all agreed on that. 

When I want to connect to the ZWO ASI120MC using the Ekos profile page I therefore select local and the ZWO driver from the list on the local page  - I then run the Indi server and the driver is connected to the device and everything works.

This is what I would expect .

I know plug the Altair camera in instead of the ZWO on the same system expecting to do the same thing as above.  I go to the Ekos profile page and select local but the Altair device does not appear on the local list !  The Altair device only appears when I select remote on the profile page and coincidentally the Altair device together with other devices which were new devices installed by the upgrade I performed to Indi lib 1.7.6 !  All these devices have the weird status symbol which means the driver can only be  used on the remote server - but there isn't one !!!

Needless to say ,  if I select the Altair device using the remote page in Ekos when I try and run Indi server I get an error message saying cannot connect to the remote server !! 

I do not understand why under these conditions that Ekos thinks the  driver is on a remote server when there isn't one !    This was why I was questioning my understanding of local and remote but I after this discussion I am beginning to think that the system has got itself misconfigured somehow but do not understand why.  

The only other logic is that you can only perform the task by using a desktop PC and trying to connect from that - I would be grateful if you guys have  any comments on the above ?  Is my logic warped or flawed or are you broadly in agreement ?

 

Ok, understand now, and yes that is strange...

And you are sure the rpi is totally up to date...?

[halli]

Ok Stash understood - I will provide some graphics - its difficult to paint the picture in words - particularly when you are Welsh !  It would be great to have your help in trying to understand this  .

Thanks also Kens its another lead I will try and follow up.

One thing that crossed my mind is when I upgraded the Pi did I do it via VNC when connected to my desktop (cant remember) and has that caused some confusion somehow because its only the drivers which were newly provided by the upgrade that seem to exhibit the issue .

Anyhow I will provide further information via some graphics....... 

[halli]

Sorry LightBucket crossed with your reply.  As far as I understand the upgrade was successful although please see my comment about upgrading it via VNC...

If all else fails I will reflash the Astroberry image and re upgrade it as a local device only and see if that makes a difference....

[LightBucket]

9 hours ago, halli said:

Sorry LightBucket crossed with your reply.  As far as I understand the upgrade was successful although please see my comment about upgrading it via VNC...

If all else fails I will reflash the Astroberry image and re upgrade it as a local device only and see if that makes a difference....

Upgrading via VNC should not be an issue, that is still classed as local connection as if you were doing it directly connected to the rpi..

The issue is I use the Stellarmate image, and don’t use AB anymore, so am just wondering if the issue lies with that, but can’t really see why...after all it’s just an image with most of the same bits of software included...it should still update just the same way.. ??

[stash_old]

11 hours ago, halli said:

One thing that crossed my mind is when I upgraded the Pi did I do it via VNC when connected to my desktop (cant remember) and has that caused some confusion somehow because its only the drivers which were newly provided by the upgrade that seem to exhibit the issue .

VNC has nothing to do with Indi , Upgrades- end of  ? So long as the upgrade worked its up todate from the source of the software you are using.

AB VS Stellermate - you will have to talk to Jasem to see if there is a "secret" upgrade path that's only for Stellarmate - I doubt it but who knows.

Plus ask AB creator and check there is no other source (Repository) he is using. We are all assuming ,unless you know otherwise, the software updates are all coming from the same source. 

Pictures ?

 

 

 

[halli]

Ok thanks guys I agree that using VNC shouldnt change things as it is simply controlling my Pi from my desktop and not introducing a remote server 

Thought I would provide some screenshots as promised just in case there is something obvious you can spot here

1)Using EKOS when just using Pi by itself

 

[halli]

sorry finger trouble need to complete the message...........

 

[stash_old]

Jasem Says

Replied by knro on topic Software Repositories for Stellarmate , Astroberry and standard Ubuntu Mate Indi

Regarding PPA, there are just two: Stable and Nightly

[stash_old]

Please read this thread AND DO NOT USE  tools-device-device manager - if that is what you are doing ?   Stick to profiles in Ekos or start Indiserver from command line on the remote device or use Web Indi Server if doing remote client - e.g. Kstars on a PC camera/mount/focuser etc connected to RPI. Cant comment on whats available via Stellemate (dont use it/have it) but Altair  heading exists on my std Ubuntu 16.04 system.

Any chance of the pictures ?

[halli]

Sorry Im a bit late with the response but got distracted mid message !!!!!

Follow on from above

1)     Using Ekos when just using the Pi by itself

I chose equipment is attached to this computer in the above  screen as this represents the Pi

The above is the Ekos profile editor and shows the devices available on the Pi.  If I chose the ZWO CCD I can connect to my ASI120MC.

As you can see the Local  circle button is pre-selected in this screen as I told Ekos that the device is connected to the Pi in the first screen above.

2) using VNC and connecting via a desktop

If I now select the equipment is connected to a remote computer which is the Pi when setting up Ekos 

The Ekos profile editor now reveals the Altair device in the list as shown.  However there is no remote server in the system as the PI is a local Indi server and my remote desktop is simply controlling this device via VNC.  My understanding is therefore that I would always select the equipment is connected to this computer whether using my desktop or not as there is only one server and that is the Pi.  Ekos is only ever running on the Pi and there is no remote client it is all local.

However hopefully this illustrates my conundrum and shows that the Altair device only appears when connection to a remote computer is selected  - but there isn't one - so I cant access the Altair device via the Pi.

I have now decided to reflash my SD card with the Astroberry image and re-upgrade directly using the Pi which I am in the middle of now. 

However as discussed previously I dont expect this to make a difference - but just in case  - as I have reached an impasse !  There must be something simple going on here that Ive missed !!

 

[halli]

Oh dear I thought the screenshots were pasted into my response not links - hope they work  - they seem ok for me.