IC-1396 using starless method

[Rodd]

Thanks Barry!  I tried Barry Wilson's starless RGB prior to Lum insertion on this HaSHO image of the Elephants Trunk Nebula complex.  Wow--what a difference it made dealing with all the tiny stars and the whisps of the nebula in between.  I found it was much easier to process--and it made dealing with the palette easier as well for some reason.  I won't bother posting the previous best--we don't need another reprocess comparison.  But I felt it appropriate to post this image to show that this method is indeed a great tool for the workbench...and to express my gratitude.

FSQ 106 with .6x reducer with ASI 1600 and 3um Astrodon filters.

Ha: 152 5min

OIII: 83 5min

SII: 43 5min

 

 

[Craney]

Blimey....!!!   That's a bit special..... Well done.

[Rodd]

5 minutes ago, Craney said:

Blimey....!!!   That's a bit special..... Well done.

Thanks Craney.  

Rodd

[Guest]

My favourite dso and I'm pretty sure my favourite example of it so far! Those inky blacks are stunning and the colour is a riot! Excellent!

Of course now I have to reshoot what I thought was a good effort for my portfolio.....LOL!

David

[Rodd]

1 hour ago, David_L said:

My favourite dso and I'm pretty sure my favourite example of it so far! Those inky blacks are stunning and the colour is a riot! Excellent!

Of course now I have to reshoot what I thought was a good effort for my portfolio.....LOL!

David

Thanks David.  I love this nebula too--it has so much to offer!

Rodd

[Laurin Dave]

Excellent image Rodd..  love the framing and the depth of colour..  

Dave

[Rodd]

39 minutes ago, Laurin Dave said:

Excellent image Rodd..  love the framing and the depth of colour..  

Dave

Thanks Dave.....Couldn't quite get the garnet star.

Rodd

[wimvb]

Excellent result, Rodd.

So how do you do it?

[Xiga]

Absolutely amazing Rodd. 

Like yourself I too struggled with the palette on this one. Took me several go's before I settled on one i liked. Yours is easily one of the best I've come across. 

Ps - I'd be tempted to rotate it 90 degrees CCW myself. But only because that's just the way I prefer to view this one. 

[carastro]

Excellent.  I shall now have to go back to my image of the same target and have another "go" at it.  Was never happy with the colour.

Carole 

[Rodd]

4 hours ago, wimvb said:

Excellent result, Rodd.

So how do you do it?

Thanks Wim.  Here is the work flow that Barry passed on to me:

1. Stretch the SHO image using your preferred method.  Resolve any magenta star issues prior to progressing to step 3.

2. Create a star mask.  I use the new script DSO Mask.  You may need to tweak the size of the star mask to ensure the star and any very small halo are incorporated in the mask.

3. Apply to SHO and apply Morphological Transformation.  I use 100% with 5 iterations, then 50% with 5 iterations.

4. Use convolution to blur the remaining 'star'.

5. Use MMT on the star with all but the R layer disabled.

7. Use some NR to reduce chrominance noise.

8. This starless image will not look exceptionally neat like a Stratton produced image but it serves as the RGB base layer.

9. Combine the non-linear Ha using Channel Combination in CieLab mode.

[souls33k3r]

I must admit, this is one of the best images of the elephant i've ever seen.

Your work is an inspiration mate.

[Rodd]

2 hours ago, Xiga said:

Absolutely amazing Rodd. 

Like yourself I too struggled with the palette on this one. Took me several go's before I settled on one i liked. Yours is easily one of the best I've come across. 

Ps - I'd be tempted to rotate it 90 degrees CCW myself. But only because that's just the way I prefer to view this one. 

 

2 hours ago, Xiga said:

Absolutely amazing Rodd. 

Like yourself I too struggled with the palette on this one. Took me several go's before I settled on one i liked. Yours is easily one of the best I've come across. 

Ps - I'd be tempted to rotate it 90 degrees CCW myself. But only because that's just the way I prefer to view this one. 

Thanks Ciaran.  I tried to rotate it.  It changes the size somehow--makes it smaller so it can fit on the screen vertically.  Remember--there is no up or down in space....I find it remarkable how the various targets appear quite differently as the perspective changes.  Besides--this is the "real" orientation for us Earthlings.

Rodd

[Rodd]

2 hours ago, carastro said:

Excellent.  I shall now have to go back to my image of the same target and have another "go" at it.  Was never happy with the colour.

Carole 

Thanks Carole.  I know what you mean...the palette is often the most slippery aspect of this venture.  This one may be a bit oversaturated (and I even toned it down at the end).  Screen variability doesn't help, or room lighting.  I processed this in a room with bright fluorescent lights (fortunately on a 4K monitor), and transferred it to a cheap LCD display to post (no internet connection at the time on the good monitor).  There were huge changes from screen to screen and from room to room.  

Rodd

[carastro]

Quote

 Screen variability doesn't help

Yup, I have noticed that too.  I have calibrated my Desktop where I do my processing, but a recent new laptop gave me a bit of a shock when i saw some of my images appearing to be well overstretched on there.  Have now calibrated that one too, but even then there is some variation.  Makes me wonder what other people are seeing when I post up images.

I like bold colours, so your image looks perfect to me. 

Carole 

[Rodd]

5 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

I must admit, this is one of the best images of the elephant i've ever seen.

Your work is an inspiration mate.

Thanks BM.....With that Edge 8 and the 1600 of yours, you could get some super close ins of the trunk.  Have you used the asi 1600 with the Edge?  I have not used it with my C11Edge yet.....I would need an OAG which I do not have, and the pixel scale would be getting close to planentary mode.

Rodd

[Rodd]

5 minutes ago, carastro said:

Makes me wonder what other people are seeing when I post up images.

This is the biggest question for me too.  One thing I have noticed, though, is that the truly great images look good on any monitor.  Its a sobering thought!

Rodd

[souls33k3r]

Just now, Rodd said:

Thanks BM.....With that Edge 8 and the 1600 of yours, you could get some super close ins of the trunk.  Have you used the asi 1600 with the Edge?  I have not used it with my C11Edge yet.....I would need an OAG which I do not have, and the pixel scale would be getting close to planentary mode.

Rodd

Hahahaha made me chuckle when you said BM. I thought you had forgotten all about it

I do plan on using the EdheHD 8 on this target when this weather clears up and indeed this is going to be my first target for it. 

I have used the EdgeHD with the 1600 sensor which is a great combo but a very slow one.  I'm only limited to 3 min exposures on that otherwise i start seeing star trails. I do have an OAG but have not had the chance to set it up yet. Hopefully very soon. The 0.7x reducer does help but again it's super slow. It's a great scope but like you said the pixel scale is the only killer here mate.

Crescent and bubble are the other two targets i will be revisiting hopefully this season (hopefully when i get the focuser on it) but i need to try and test my Esprit first.

[Rodd]

5 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

3 min exposures on that otherwise i start seeing star trails

Is this unguided?  If it is--well done, that's a great result.  if not, is it the mount, PA...or maybe a guidescope at that focal length?  Anyway, F7 is not that bad--especially with 8 inches.  I have used the 1600 with the TOA 130 at F7.7--a bit slower much not much.  I was using 2 min subs for broadband and the same 5min subs for narrowband.  You can always bin the camera too--but then you need all new darks and flats, so time consuming I know.  The bubble and crescent will make epic images!

Rodd

[souls33k3r]

25 minutes ago, Rodd said:

Is this unguided?  If it is--well done, that's a great result.  if not, is it the mount, PA...or maybe a guidescope at that focal length?  Anyway, F7 is not that bad--especially with 8 inches.  I have used the 1600 with the TOA 130 at F7.7--a bit slower much not much.  I was using 2 min subs for broadband and the same 5min subs for narrowband.  You can always bin the camera too--but then you need all new darks and flats, so time consuming I know.  The bubble and crescent will make epic images!

Rodd

That's guided mate. I normally go up to 5 minutes with a refractor (not because my mount is limiting but i'm a bit impatient and want to see my images roll in plus less worry to throw any subs). It could be the mount but i do my PA with polemaster. But i think it's most likely the guidescope which is the QHY miniguidescope (I know i'm stretching it but it works really well) so i now have a 9x50 finderscope and a 60mm guidescope which i'll be giving both of them a go and see if my guiding improves. 

I've not really done any broadband imaging from my Bortle 8/9 skies but i did dabble with them when i went to a dark site about a year ago. I've got the LRGB set only if i ever need to use them. They're El Cheapo ZWO ones. I don't do flats yet (still working on them) but i do take darks.

[Rodd]

5 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

(I know i'm stretching it but it works really well)

The guiedscope should work very well with refractor--all my images with the ASI 1600 have been with guidecope ( even at 1,000mm with TOA 130).  But its important how you mount the quidescope--not on the rings.  the felt in the rings can yield a small amount of flexure.  Its best it the scope is mounted directly to the scope (focuser) where the finderscope would go.  A guidescope with the C8 is definitely pushing it.  

The easiest way to shoot flats is with a illuminated flat floil--like the flatman or similar.  Works great, is reproducible, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.  I use to use the Neumann foil, but found the cables to be so fragile they did not last.  The Altinak flatman works great.

Rodd

PS--learn to be patient.  I know its hard, but just think that patience will improve you final result in a directly proportional way.  Eyes on the prize mate!

[souls33k3r]

4 minutes ago, Rodd said:

The guiedscope should work very well with refractor--all my images with the ASI 1600 have been with guidecope ( even at 1,000mm with TOA 130).  But its important how you mount the quidescope--not on the rings.  the felt in the rings can yield a small amount of flexure.  Its best it the scope is mounted directly to the scope (focuser) where the finderscope would go.  A guidescope with the C8 is definitely pushing it.  

The easiest way to shoot flats is with a illuminated flat floil--like the flatman or similar.  Works great, is reproducible, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.  I use to use the Neumann foil, but found the cables to be so fragile they did not last.  The Altinak flatman works great.

Rodd

PS--learn to be patient.  I know its hard, but just think that patience will improve you final result in a directly proportional way.  Eyes on the prize mate!

The guidescope that i use is this one (This is the orion variation of it)

It's a tight fit on the rings and the base either goes on the mounting shoe or there is a thread underneath it and i tighten it down with that. It does not move one bit either way but like you said, i'm basically pushing it with the C8. My stars don't look too bad either. This is the image i took with this guidescope.

For flats what i have is the ceiling LED panel which has a dimmer switch. I just need to work out how to take flats using that bad boy. Tried the iPad approach but as soon as the screen touches the metal part of the scope, it goes all crazy and starts turning off the light or changes it's mode to something else. 

[wornish]

Another amazing image Rodd.

[Rodd]

9 minutes ago, wornish said:

Another amazing image Rodd.

Thanks Dave.

rodd

[Barry-Wilson]

Well done Rodd - excellent image.  I really find this technique helps bring greater depth to the image.  Experiment with retaining some green too to help the tones.

I find that TGVDenoise using Chrominance only in CieLab mode, ensuring Local Support is ticked does a really good job of clearing up any remnant artefacts in the combined HaSHO at say 300 or 350 iterations, eg the faint tiny rogue coloured pixels or pixel clusters.  MMT in chrominance mode helps after applying the TGVDenoise as well.