Where to start buying equipment on a low budget?

[MauriceN]

I'm into astronomy and photography, hence my interest for astrophotography. I just got out my first telescope after I forgot about it for more than 10 years and want to know where to start. I spent the last week reading and trying out the stuff I already have and got a pretty good overview (at least that's what I think) of what I'm doing. Now I want to know how to start advancing from watching the sky to making photos. My current setup consists of a 130/1000 newton telescope with (I think) an Exos-2 mount, a normal finderscope, three plössl eye pieces, a 2x barlow and my recently ordered PSA with a dimmable red light.

Regarding photography: My entire experience is based on editing and compositing images for other people, I never had my own DSLR and only use lent ones to this day. The only camera I have is my smartphone so to speak. I already read about the different ways I could approach ap but still don't know what would fit me the most. I'm on a very low budget and need the most cost-efficient method to get started with DSO imaging.

What would be the most logical upgrade /  way to go for? Get a used DSLR or go with CCDs right from the start? Should I leave these alone as long as I don't have a good base setup like a motor, auto guide system, some filters or new eye pieces? Is my telescope even suitable for ap?

[happy-kat]

Welcome.

For flexibility it will be useful to realise that you don't have to have a telescope to do astrophotography.

Your telescope and tripod will be capable of imaging the Moon and planets with say using a webcam. I've got a cheap webcam that works connected to my tablet or smartphone. You don't have to motorise your tripod to achieve that.

You could buy a second hand DSLR with the kit lens and if you can do DIY build a manual barndoor mount and take images of DSO as many are a lot bigger then we think. I can get reliability 3 minute exposures from my manual barndoor build (link in signature). Or add a motor to achieve longer with bigger lens.

Software to process either planets or DSO are available free.

EDIT: I googled your tripod and realised your gear is not the starter equipment I misunderstood it to be, so you will probably disregard all what I have said.

[happy-kat]

Before spending any money could read the book 'Making ever photon count'. This would give an understanding of why different equipment is used.

[cjdawson]

Based on the kit that you have right now.  I'd suggest that maybe if you want to get a camera first, go for something like the ZWO ASI290-MM Uncooled version.    There's method to this.

1. It'll get you a camera that can be used for lunar and planetary right out of the box.

2. It doesn't cost a fortune.

3. You can get a filter wheel, and then LRGB filter set.    to take colour astro photos. (I'm working on this myself)

 

Then, when you get some practice and need more gear, you could get something like that ZWO ASI1600-MM Cooled version, which would then become the imaging camera.   The ASI290-MM would then become a guide camera.

This is a long term plan.

 

I'd suggest that you don't bother with DSLR - whilst they are good (I've used mine)  without modification they have problems with capturing the HA end of the red.   Also I'm fairly sure that you would not want to modify a DSLR as you'd likely want to use it for daytime photos too.

 

Other than the cameras that I mentioned.  The rest really depends on how big that budget it.   Your mount looks OK, but would be on the light side for astro imaging, lots of people like to use the NEQ6, or something like that.    As for the Scope, maybe look towards a fast refrator.   Although, as you have a telescope and mount already, I'd suggest that you hold off from this.  Hence my suggestion.... get a camera that will be OK.

Then get used to the software, setup and other learning curve things before you start to worry about guiding.

 

If you didn't have a scope, I'd suggest going for a refractor first, but as you have a scope already, stick with it for the time being - saves spending money right away ?

[david_taurus83]

Hi and welcome to the SGL!

 

If you haven't already, you should check out the book in the link below. It's regarded as the beginners bible into astrophotography.

 

When you do get started though, the question you will likely be asking is when to stop buying equipment!

 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

[RolandKol]

Hi, I constantly check ebay (filter used items and check "buy it now" or even "auctions").
http://www.astrobuysell.com does have some nice second-hand toys also.
 

as per AP, I started with DOB and smartphone 2 years ago....
a not very good idea... the only thing you will be able to picture properly is the moon and maybe... maybe Orion Nebula later in the autumn.

You need astro cam, or modify webcam.  Your scope is not AP one, but you will manage to get some  nice pics of the moon and maybe planets. For planets you will need x2 or even x3 barlow (will depends on the cam).
DSLR are not good for planets as you will need as high FPS (frames per seconds) as possible.

 

[RolandKol]

If it will hook you up, start checking for the second hand HEQ5 or even NEQ6 mount. 
The mount is the main start for AP.

[MauriceN]

2 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Your telescope tube how physically long is it?

It's 93cm long and has a diameter of approx 16cm.

4 minutes ago, cjdawson said:

Based on the kit that you have right now.  I'd suggest that maybe if you want to get a camera first, go for something like the ZWO ASI290-MM Uncooled version.

Are there any alternatives more cost efficient if it's used as guide camera sooner or later? Or is a 500€ (at least on the site I looked it up) camera needed as guider?

[MauriceN]

23 minutes ago, RolandKol said:

If it will hook you up, start checking for the second hand HEQ5 or even NEQ6 mount. 
The mount is the main start for AP.

Are they just called "HEQ5" and "NEQ6"? I can't seem to find them on the astroshop website or ebay.

[happy-kat]

Is this your tripod?

Link here

It is something like 50% of observing weight capacity for imaging, if that is your tripod then that has an observing weight limit of 13 kilos. It is not currently your weak link.

[cjdawson]

2 hours ago, MauriceN said:

It's 93cm long and has a diameter of approx 16cm.

Are there any alternatives more cost efficient if it's used as guide camera sooner or later? Or is a 500€ (at least on the site I looked it up) camera needed as guider?

There are alternatives, here's the cheapest ZWO camera

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi120mc-usb-2-colour-camera.html

but I'd say if you are going to use it for guiding stick with a mono camera, they're more sensetive.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi120mm-usb-2-mono-camera.html

 

The idea is that you could end up with something like this as your guider eventually.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/guide-cameras/zwo-mini-finder-guider-asi120mm-bundle.html

 

Of course, this is talking about brand new kit and making sure that you get stuff that will work.

I wasted years trying to get a camera for guiding by trying to be cheap and finding that I could never find guide stars.   For this reason, I dont recommend trying to make a webcam work, my experience is that they simply are not sensitive enough.

 

2 hours ago, MauriceN said:

Are they just called "HEQ5" and "NEQ6"? I can't seem to find them on the astroshop website or ebay.

Here's the mounts.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-heq5-pro-synscan.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-neq6-pro-synscan.html

I agree with Happy-kat, that this isn't your weak spot at the moment.

[Andyb90]

There is a good article here with a section about starting DSO Astrophotography. It was written a fews ago, but the guiding principles won't have changed:

http://www.astrophotography-tonight.com/astrophotography-on-budget/

Regards,

Andy.

[MauriceN]

4 hours ago, cjdawson said:

There are alternatives, here's the cheapest ZWO camera

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi120mc-usb-2-colour-camera.html

but I'd say if you are going to use it for guiding stick with a mono camera, they're more sensetive.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi120mm-usb-2-mono-camera.html

 

The idea is that you could end up with something like this as your guider eventually.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/guide-cameras/zwo-mini-finder-guider-asi120mm-bundle.html

 

Of course, this is talking about brand new kit and making sure that you get stuff that will work.

I wasted years trying to get a camera for guiding by trying to be cheap and finding that I could never find guide stars.   For this reason, I dont recommend trying to make a webcam work, my experience is that they simply are not sensitive enough.

 

Here's the mounts.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-heq5-pro-synscan.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-neq6-pro-synscan.html

I agree with Happy-kat, that this isn't your weak spot at the moment.

Do you know a good and not so costy filter wheel or filter set?

[RolandKol]

I would suggest, to stay away from mono, - filter wheels and filters initially...
The full set may cost as your current scope and mount all together... Plus you will have to refocus on each filter, do flats images on each filter.

too much pain for the start.

This is why the first cam I bought was ASi224MC (colour one), I use it for guiding now without any problems from London (very light polluted sky), - but I use it with Evoguide 50ED guider scope, which is quite expensive.
And of course, I do use it for planet imaging also.

[cjdawson]

12 minutes ago, RolandKol said:

I would suggest, to stay away from mono, - filter wheels and filters initially...
The full set may cost as your current scope and mount all together... Plus you will have to refocus on each filter, do flats images on each filter.

too much pain for the start.

This is why the first cam I bought was ASi224MC (colour one), I use it for guiding now without any problems from London (very light polluted sky), - but I use it with Evoguide 50ED guider scope, which is quite expensive.
And of course, I do use it for planet imaging also.

I understand where you are coming from on that.  It's yet another learning curve.  You are right that each colour will need focusing, the advantage is that you'll end up with better images than a colour camera, simply because you can focus each colour channel separately.

 

There's more to my thinking on this.

 

First off. Don't get the filterwheel or colour filters right away.   Instead, just get the camera that you are going to use as a guide camera later on and use it to get started.

Here's an idea.

 

Get the mono camera.   This will allow you to get started capturing images.  You'll be able to get used to processing - especially lunar and planetary images right away.   It'll also give you time to look any possible coma issues in the scope and sort that out if needed.

Next, get the LRGB filters.  I know of two sets, the ZWO and the Baader.    They do the same thing and have different costs.  It's up to you which you decide to use.

Then later on, get yourself a filterwheel.   It's not absolutely necessary to use one from the start, it simply makes life easier.

[RolandKol]

But he will be even able to use simple ASI224MC (Colour) for guiding initially...

And if he will decide to upgrade later, - sell it, with a bit of loss of course, but it will bring much more joy for the start as Colours do matter

P.S. ASi 224MC can be the second hand initially also, - it does not make a difference

[cjdawson]

Very true.   Of course, this is all dependent on what budget there is to play with.   Using my own story, I bought a Starlight Express Superstar to use as a guide camera after getting extremely frustrated with lesser solutions.     In a  nutshell, I have in the past tried a Logitech QuickCam Pro, Philips Tucam Pro II, Meade DSI and a SkyWatcher SynGuider II.   Bottom line was that I was always struggling to find guide stars.    After switching to the SuperStar, it was such a huge step change that I no longer recommend anything short of a Mono camera rated for Astro use.

 

I'm also aware that there is no perfect solution that will suit everyone.  A colour camera will be easier to get colour results with.  In the long term, it may work well for a guide camera, I personally won't recommend it from my past experiences and frustrations.  For Guiding a mono camera, simply has 3-4 times the number of available pixels, due to the bayer matrix.

The recommendations that I made were based on two things.

1. The original poster has stated that he has experience in the field of Photography.    This leads me to try to offer ideas which are above the abolute minimum.

2. The long game.    As you pointed out, get a colour camera now, sell it, then get a mono camera for guiding later.    Whilst this is quicker to get up and running, in the long term it's more expensive.      I was looking at the longer term lower total cost of ownership.

[spillage]

Hi @MauriceN

I take it your mount is not motor controlled and therefore cannot track. Google shows that you can buy an upgrade for this but for the total cost you can buy a second hand heq5.

Just to start out with why not keep your eyes out for a phillips spc900 webcam or similar and good quality barlow. You can then image planets and the moon and see how it goes.

If you really want to go down the dso route then do by steve's book as suggested. You will need to up your mount and start looking at a dedicated ccd or cmos camera.

This hobby is not cheap even on the cheaper end of the scale so its important not to end up wasting hundreds of pounds on kit that will either not what expected or worse still fail and make you give up.

I try to by second hand and so far all my purchases have been 100%.

A rough guide to costs:

neq6 £650 or heq5 £450

130pds £120

guide cam £100

Imaging camera (i purchased the asi1600 mono brand new) but you need to look at £700 plus or a second hand modified canon dslr should be under £300 (you can always sell it at a later date for funding a dedicated camera). Usb filter wheel and filters anywhere up to £500 for standard kit.

You need to also take into account all the little bits you will need like cable and adaptors. But don't let this put you off.

 

Mark.

[cjdawson]

@spillage Love your style.      I couldn't afford an ASI1600MM myself, so stretched (erm, broke the budget) and got an uncooled ASI290MM.   The plan is that I'll be taking DSO images, so I'm working on a project to build a peltier cooler for it.   It's going slow, should be done for Autumn and winter.  Best part is that it's still going to be lower than the cooled version of any of the ZWO cameras.

[Stub Mandrel]

Just a note: I have an ASI120MC

I use guidescopes of about f3.5 focal ratio and have never had any problems finding stars with 1 and 2 second exposures.

It's sensitive enough that it will show M57 clearly at 2 seconds, so if you want to go with a colour cam,. don't worry about its suitability as a guidescope.

[MauriceN]

On 27/06/2018 at 14:38, spillage said:

Hi @MauriceN

I take it your mount is not motor controlled and therefore cannot track. Google shows that you can buy an upgrade for this but for the total cost you can buy a second hand heq5.

Just to clarify, the upgrade for my mount would cost as much as a used HEQ5 with motor?

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, MauriceN said:

Just to clarify, the upgrade for my mount would cost as much as a used HEQ5 with motor?

I did, well used but perfectly functional. Others come up on SGL classifieds at good prices from time to time. ?

[MauriceN]

Well, I decided to buy a camera first. The question is what's the more logical approach with my 130/1000 newtonian.

1. I found a Canon 1000D astro modded by astrotec (cost 125€) with a 18-55mm lense for 200€ I still would have to buy a Tring, 1.25" adapter, a serial and probably something for eye piece projection because of my newtonian, so we're at around 300€. I would buy the camera in the next few days and get the other stuff over the next month or so. Also means I will get myself an ASI120MC or a motor at the end of the year.

2. I don't buy the camera and safe the money until end 2018 to buy an ASI290MC uncooled and a motor or an ASI290MM with filters without motor upgrade.

What would be a good long term solution? Keep in mind, I'm still going to school for a year. I get around 20€/month and have approx. 250€ available atm + ~400€ birthday + christmas money from family and friends. So I should end up with ~700/800€ at the end of the year, maybe selling something in the meantime as well.

[cjdawson]

I think option 1 is the best for right now.   It'll keep you going for a while, and you can add the motor next, that'll get you going.

[RichM63]

36 minutes ago, MauriceN said:

Well, I decided to buy a camera first. The question is what's the more logical approach with my 130/1000 newtonian.

1. I found a Canon 1000D astro modded by astrotec (cost 125€) with a 18-55mm lense for 200€ I still would have to buy a Tring, 1.25" adapter, a serial and probably something for eye piece projection because of my newtonian, so we're at around 300€. I would buy the camera in the next few days and get the other stuff over the next month or so. Also means I will get myself an ASI120MC or a motor at the end of the year.

2. I don't buy the camera and safe the money until end 2018 to buy an ASI290MC uncooled and a motor or an ASI290MM with filters without motor upgrade.

What would be a good long term solution? Keep in mind, I'm still going to school for a year. I get around 20€/month and have approx. 250€ available atm + ~400€ birthday + christmas money from family and friends. So I should end up with ~700/800€ at the end of the year, maybe selling something in the meantime as well.

If you are going to use the astro-camera with your telescope, what is the point of over spending €75 on an 18-55mm lens?

If you are money conscious like me then €105 on the unmodded 1000D body, and if you really want to buy a kit lens 18-55 IS STM €55. MPB German site.

Logical, at your age with a whole load of years ahead, buy an unmodded camera + adapter etc to connect to your telescope for about €130 all in and see how you get on.

Sadly there is no long term solution vis a vis money required, everything 'Better' always costs exponentially more.