Running SGPro on a Mini PC

[Fellside]

Has any one experience of running SGPro on an on scope Mini PC such as NUC, intel compute stick, etc.

I don't necessarily want the minimum/cheapest solution as this may require an upgrade within a short while.

How do these PC`s stand up to operating in the cold damp conditions that we operate in?

What other software will I need? PHD2 etc.

What are your recommendations?

Graham

[Adreneline]

Hi.

I can't address the outside aspect of using a NUC but I find it is very stable for running all the software I need to run my mount and scope etc., namely:

• ASCOM-EQMOD
• CdC
• PHD2 + ASI120MM
• SGPro + Atik428ex
• HitecAstro DC Focus

Running Windows 10 it rarely crashes in my experience. The only piece of software that tends to give me problems is the HitecAstro.

I am soon to start trying connecting mount/scope/cameras/focusser to a Pi Model B+ and using it as a server, so the only connection back to the NUC will be a network cable. At the moment I am restricted to running the setup no more than 5 metres from the NUC (PC inside - hole in wall for all the cables - mount/OTA outside). The scope is pretty close to the house so I lose access to quite a lot of sky. Using the Pi as a server I am hoping to be able to position the mount/OTA well down the garden.

Hope this helps with your deliberations.

Adrian

 

[Fellside]

Adrian

So you will be running Linux on the Pi and have INDI drivers for all your kit or in the wider scheme of things have I missed something.

What spec is your NUC?

Graham

[Adreneline]

23 minutes ago, Fellside said:

I missed something

Hi Graham,

I've been looking at this option:

https://www.virtualhere.com/hardware

The VH software resides on the Pi SSD card and it runs as a server; all the necessary drivers are on the PC running Windows as usual.

The NUC is quite old - its an Intel i3 with a 200GB solid-state drive. The monitor is a 22" SMART TV + Logitech wired keyboard and mouse.

Adrian

[LightBucket]

4 minutes ago, Adreneline said:

Hi Graham,

I've been looking at this option:

https://www.virtualhere.com/hardware

The VH software resides on the Pi SSD card and it runs as a server; all the necessary drivers are on the PC running Windows as usual.

The NUC is quite old - its an Intel i3 with a 200GB solid-state drive. The monitor is a 22" SMART TV + Logitech wired keyboard and mouse.

Adrian

So may I ask, what is the difference between this and just having a powered USB hub on the mount, with a cable back to the main PC....seems the same to me.

I use an rpi3 on my mount but with INDI server running and connected back to my main PC via network cable, but all the INDI drivers are on the rpi3 so no Ascom to mess about with or USB or serial issues, it just seems to work..!,

[Adreneline]

1 minute ago, LightBucket said:

So may I ask, what is the difference between this and just having a powered USB hub on the mount, with a cable back to the main PC....seems the same to me.

The difference is I don't own a powered hub but I do own a Pi3 Model B - I've got some spare network cable - and I can leave the PC as is with all the software and drivers. If it doesn't work I've lost nothing and spent nothing!

 

[AngryDonkey]

I've been running 2xSGP and all acquisition related apps (2x focuser, hub, mount, PHD2, PoleMaster) on an Intel Compute Stick M3 (Windows 10 Pro) for a while now without any issues. I think very little computing power is required for these apps unless you are looking at running high frame rate acquisitions with a USB3 CMOS camera (e.g. planetary imaging). I chose the stick for it's low power consumption and form factor (it's now mounted directly on the scope) but it obviously needs a hub of some sort as it only has one USB connection and because of this you will need to ensure that the hub is reliable! I use the Pegasus Astro Ultimate Hub which has been rock solid but I'm sure there are other reliable powered hubs out there (Startech seems to come up often). The other thing to consider with a stick is that you will need to access it remotely unless you can plug it directly into a HDMI monitor (which is pretty difficult with a portable setup). I use TeamViewer which has been great but there are occasions where the Stick refuses to connect to the Wifi in which case you will need a method of working with the stick directly. I have a USB monitor panel which I can plug into the sticks USB port for this and use Bluetooth mouse an keyboard. If you have a home setup then this is less of a problem as it's easy to just take the stick and plug it in somewhere.

Before the Stick I've used the Intel NUC which also worked great but didn't have enough USB ports for me and was a bit heavy to mount onto the scope. 

I've never had any issues with dew on either but don't live in an area where it is very heavy so can't really comment. I think because they are always slightly warm it's not much of an issue (in fact I've mounted my stick right under the dew shield of one of the scopes in the hope that the exhaust heat will slightly warm the tube) and if it becomes a problem it would be quite easy to cover them.

[stash_old]

10 hours ago, Adreneline said:

Hi Graham,

I've been looking at this option:

https://www.virtualhere.com/hardware

The VH software resides on the Pi SSD card and it runs as a server; all the necessary drivers are on the PC running Windows as usual.

The NUC is quite old - its an Intel i3 with a 200GB solid-state drive. The monitor is a 22" SMART TV + Logitech wired keyboard and mouse.

Adrian

Hi Adrian,

I use VH software for remote wirless connection to my canon dslr on a RPI3 however i have the following comments/observations:

1. Running VH ,on a RPI, to control one USB devices such as a DSLR Camera is slow (but works) but IMHO not recommended for high data rate devices - CCD. 

2. You can use SER2NET (runs on RPI's) to provide transparent access to your mount via EQMOD(lots of write ups on how to install SER2NET)  - been round for years and is solid /fast and FREE. Just need to use Virtual com port software on PC - such as https://www.hw-group.com/products/hw_vsp/hw_vsp2_en.html - single port is free.

3. You would be better using your NUC (assuming its a small form factor version) on the mount and connecting your devices to that. Then just RDP/Teamviewer/VNC etc to the NUC from another device. The I3 processor/SSD set up is well capable of taking the kit you describe - it would be far faster than RPI/VH solution

Whatever you do I hope it works out great- clear skies! 

[LightBucket]

10 hours ago, Adreneline said:

The difference is I don't own a powered hub but I do own a Pi3 Model B - I've got some spare network cable - and I can leave the PC as is with all the software and drivers. If it doesn't work I've lost nothing and spent nothing!

 

Ok great, well if it does not work, just put Ubuntu mate and INDI server and drivers into the rpi3 run network cable to your laptop, load the windows version of Kstars /Ekos and log into the rpi3 and controll all your kit that way, as you have all you need, and all the software is free...  

[RayD]

Before getting my Eagle2 I was running one of these in Spain (now coming back here for star parties etc.) and it has been excellent.  I chose this one originally as it is fanless and has 8 USB ports.  I have a USB-C SSD drive which plugs in to store the images during capture as I don't use this for processing, and I then just unplug that after the session to bring indoors.

It certainly isn't the cheapest option by any means, but then neither is any kit in this hobby, but for me it has been great, runs every piece of software with ease, naturally, and runs on 12V.

I also have a Pegasus hub in my obsy running from a desktop in the warm room, and as mentioned above they are rock solid, but of course are only a hub, so you would still need a PC.

There really isn't a single ideal solution, but at least this thread will show you there are quite a few to choose from, all of which will work absolutely fine.

[Adreneline]

36 minutes ago, stash_old said:

You would be better using your NUC (assuming its a small form factor version) on the mount and connecting your devices to that. Then just RDP/Teamviewer/VNC etc to the NUC from another device. The I3 processor/SSD set up is well capable of taking the kit you describe - it would be far faster than RPI/VH solution

 

29 minutes ago, LightBucket said:

put Ubuntu mate and INDI server and drivers into the rpi3 run network cable to your laptop, load the windows version of Kstars /Ekos and log into the rpi3 and controll all your kit that way, as you have all you need, and all the software is free...

Thank you both for all the recommendations. I have a MacBookPro running Windows 10 under Parallels Desktop but I was trying to keep it free for other things - like amusing myself when the NUC is collecting images - LOL - if only the clouds would clear!

I have a Pi3 Model B which is no longer being used so I thought it would be good to try to utilise it in some way; I would rather stick the Pi outside in a 'garden box' than the NUC. I clearly have lots to think about! Thank you again for the advice and the recommendations - I may well be coming back for some more help/advice.

Hopefully I'll post my progress at some stage with some images. I think they are forecasting clear skies for October - not sure which year though

Adrian

P.S. Apologies to @Fellside for hijacking this thread - I will start a new one when I get somewhere with my Pi3 etc. Good luck with your NUC.

[Fellside]

Where I am coming from on this is that I will be moving back to Windows because of lack of INDI driver support for the Mesu200 mount.

It got so bad I even considered selling the unused Mesu. Wife soon snapped me out of that

I did have everything running remotely using two RPi`s on INDI. I haven't used Windows for a while. I just need to ask the right questions and everything should be fine. SGPro looks good and PHD2 is just the same. I just cant believe that people have to control the local machine with software such as Teamview and Virtual desktops. Not to mention long USB leads.

SGPro is supposed to be getting INDI support for version 3 so that may allow us to communicate with the local (on scope) Windows PC running and INDI server over the network. Bliss

Sorry about that got of topic.

Adrenaline

VH software sound very interesting but it will need to run at a reasonable speed. Although stash_old think that may not be possible. I look forward to your thread on your successful use of VH

Angrydonkey

I am leaning towards a low end NUS. I seem to remember reading somewhere that NUS only runs Win 10, so no chance to run Win 7. I only need it to run the control software on the scope. I have inherited Son`s "old" Gamer PC so there is no lack of Image processing power, Now Win 7.

Mesu200 has plenty of load capacity so that is not a problem.

Thanks for all your contributions. Plenty to think about.

Graham

 

 

[hughgilhespie]

Hi,

I hope this isn’t too far off-topic but I also want to run SGP / PHD2/ etc on a computer mounted on my OTA.

Like RayD, I have also bought a small form factor , fanless  computer to use with the imaging set-up I am currently implimenting. My computer is a Kingdel i7 with 16 Gb ram and a 512 Gb SSD. This has 4 by USB 2 and 4 by USB3 ports. The intention is to mount the computer on the OTA, along with a Startech 4-port USB2 hub and a homebrew power distribution box. That will give me enough USB ports on the OTA to connect with all the equipment. The only cables needed from the OTA to the the outside world will be the main 13.6 volt, 20 Amp power in, a USB 2 cable to my observatory control box and a Cat 6 network cable. The intention is to use the set-up for remotely controlled imaging by use of Microsoft Remote Desktop Protocol to allow me to access my OTA computer from inside the house.

I do have a couple of questions about my proposed set up that I hope you can answer. First off, I have read somewhere that I might need to fit a special HDMI plug to the OTA computer before I can use RDP. Is that correct and if so, what sort of plug do I need?

Secondly, the Kingdel computer can connect through wifi and I have a wifi access point set up in the observatory. Would it be possible to:-

1) Use Wake on Lan to turn on the OTA computer over wifi?

2) Assuming that the OTA computer is already running, can I connect RDP over a wifi link?

If the answers are both yes, then I can do away with the Cat6 cable. If only 2 is yes, I can do away with the cable if I can find another way to remotely turn on the computer or leave it running 24/7.

Regards, Hugh

[stash_old]

8 hours ago, hughgilhespie said:

I do have a couple of questions about my proposed set up that I hope you can answer. First off, I have read somewhere that I might need to fit a special HDMI plug to the OTA computer before I can use RDP. Is that correct and if so, what sort of plug do I need?

Secondly, the Kingdel computer can connect through wifi and I have a wifi access point set up in the observatory. Would it be possible to:-

1) Use Wake on Lan to turn on the OTA computer over wifi?

2) Assuming that the OTA computer is already running, can I connect RDP over a wifi link?

If the answers are both yes, then I can do away with the Cat6 cable. If only 2 is yes, I can do away with the cable if I can find another way to remotely turn on the computer or leave it running 24/7.

Regards, Hugh

1. You didn't mention which version of Windows 10 (if at all Amazon says Pro) is installed but here goes:-

a. Yes you can connect the Kingdel Wifi to the access point assuming your Obsys Wifi is nothing special - dont know your wifi speeds but will be ok. Wired lan still out performs all Wifi in like for like (e.g. 1gb wifi ,1gb wired , wired wins in most cases). So yes you can ditch the cat6 Ethernet cable to your PC

b. Windows 10 Wake on Lan - I have never got my mine to work correctly on Windows 10 (pro or ultimate) and it does depend on the Network card/bus supporting this feature. And check what the Bios/UEFI can support - this is the "dumb" loader which loads the PC's and starts the operating system. Again check with Kingsdel

c. If the OTA is running ,service is running and RDP is not blocked by settings or Firewall it should work Try it- read this as a starter https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/4028379/windows-10-how-to-use-remote-desktop

d. "Remotely turn on" - Cold starting as far as I know unless otherwise stated by the hardware producer - NO .  If "Wake on" works yes but its not totally switched off - just deep sleeping and using min hardware and power. Not that its impossible just not standard - talk to Kingdel !

I have know some small companies run all their software on something with less power - it should fly BUT make a back up(off site) once you have it set up can say hrs - clear skies 

[hughgilhespie]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. My Kingdel computer uses Windows 10 Pro, so RDP is available. I have been using Wake On Lan successfully with my current observatory computer which runs Windows 7 Pro and  - for what it's worth - in the Kingdel blurb about the computer it states:

 Product Advantages: 

1. Special: 64 bits computing, Turbo Boost Technology 2.0, 15W TDP CPU;
Support Wake-On-LAN, calls on function automatically; SATA and mSATA drives supported, 2*mSATA3 Slot;
 

I guess this means that Wake On Lan is supported and - hopefully - configured to work out of the box. I have yet to find out!

Do you have any ideas about the need for a special HDMI plug to allow headless working with a decent screen resolution? These are available from Amazon UK

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/CompuLab-Remote-Desktop-fit-Headless-4K/dp/B00JKFTYA8/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1521623056&sr=8-14&keywords=headless+HDMI+plug

I am not at all knowledgeable about 'modern' computer video stuff such as HDMI. I was OK with VGA but that's about it. Now it's far more complicated and confusing.

Regards, Hugh

 

[Adreneline]

On 19/03/2018 at 22:26, Fellside said:

VH software sound very interesting but it will need to run at a reasonable speed. Although stash_old think that may not be possible. I look forward to your thread on your successful use of VH

The won't be a thread on the successful use of VH - it doesn't work well enough; it works but speed is the issue - or lack of it.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Adrian

[Fellside]

Adrian

Thanks for the feedback. You have to give these things a try don't you.

I have discovered these mini pc`s. You can buy a bare bones PC or specify what you want. Unusually most come with an RS232 (serial port) My Mesu has a serial input

https://www.ambros.co.uk/computer-shop/shuttle-dx30-assembled-pc-system/

Graham

[Adreneline]

1 hour ago, Fellside said:

I have discovered these mini pc`s. You can buy a bare bones PC or specify what you want. Unusually most come with an RS232 (serial port) My Mesu has a serial input

I try lots of things Graham - and I'm getting used to disappointment - slowly

Thanks for the link - it looks interesting. At least these eternally cloudy skies allow time for experimentation with the systems and peripherals.

I will look forward to hearing your success story. Good luck.

Adrian