Tak FC100DL F9

[25585]

It's idiot=me proofing really Stu. I am sure 2 rings are fine. My other scopes have 2 rings. 

The Tak was my single biggest never-repeatable astro buy, so I am paranoid about its protection. 

Have to remove that red & yellow label I think, spoils the aesthetic look.  

[Stu]

28 minutes ago, 25585 said:

It's idiot=me proofing really Stu. I am sure 2 rings are fine. My other scopes have 2 rings. 

The Tak was my single biggest never-repeatable astro buy, so I am paranoid about its protection. 

Have to remove that red & yellow label I think, spoils the aesthetic look.  

You are, of course, perfectly entitled to do whatever you want to feel your scope is safely held. I guess my only concern is to make sure people don’t get the impression that you need to do it. The Taks are such lovely lightweight scopes that is seems a shame to shackle them with all that extra hardware. 

[mikeDnight]

21 minutes ago, 25585 said:

Have to remove that red & yellow label I think, spoils the aesthetic look.  

OUCH! That's some serious surgery you're considering on your DL, which would potentially devalue it for resale. Aficionados put great emphasis on the classic, unadulterated Tak look, which proves the instrument has been cherished by its owner. Removing the sun warning label may come across as uncaring at the very least. The best thing would be to sell your red rings, which don't match anything but the sun label, and fit a single clamshell! Pure Takahashi!!! 

[Timebandit]

3 hours ago, 25585 said:

Picture of my DL alongside 495mm Losmandy D dovetail with 2 of the 4 Primaluce rings. 

495mm is the exact length of tube between focuser collar and dew shield flare, ideal!

Primaluce's clamp has hole spacings matching those for M6 bolts on a Skytee 2 base. 

A Tak clamshell ring uses the pair of M8 holes.  

 

Nice mounting Gear ?

Get it on the scope my friend, and let's see a picture of the set up on the mount being used.

The best scope to have is the scope you will use.?

 

 

[Moonshane]

I'd hate to have a dovetail the same length as the available tube. How do you balance it? I normally slide the scope in the rings. Your set up suggests you slide the dovetail in the mount which is surely a recipe for disaster at night?

[marcus_z]

With my DC and DL I use the Primalucelab rings with a 140mm Vixen-style bar. I never doubted the stability of the rings and/or bar.

[25585]

5 hours ago, Stu said:

You are, of course, perfectly entitled to do whatever you want to feel your scope is safely held. I guess my only concern is to make sure people don’t get the impression that you need to do it. The Taks are such lovely lightweight scopes that is seems a shame to shackle them with all that extra hardware. 

The Primaluce rings are lightweight comparitively. Being only 95mm makes them smallish so less metal. A DL Tak clamp is heavier than a DC/DF one as longer (& DL OTA likewise). I have both clamps. 

I doubt my mounting set-up would put anyone off buying a Tak FC100. It is a shame that only Primaluce, Parallax & a Japanese make are the only manufacturers of 95mm rings, making an alternative to Takahashi's ungainly single-lock clamshell clamp expensive. The clamps themselves seem at odds with lightweight, compact portability - several rings pack lighter and flatter. 

[25585]

2 hours ago, Moonshane said:

I'd hate to have a dovetail the same length as the available tube. How do you balance it? I normally slide the scope in the rings. Your set up suggests you slide the dovetail in the mount which is surely a recipe for disaster at night?

Neither  I have a counterweight on a single saddle which can be slid for balancing, less of an issue due to a longer OTA. The clamp I use is a 3 lock Primaluce, and long enough to retain my OTA on its bar when loosened, should that be needed to be done. 

[25585]

5 hours ago, Timebandit said:

 

Nice mounting Gear ?

Get it on the scope my friend, and let's see a picture of the set up on the mount being used.

The best scope to have is the scope you will use.?

 

 

Monday hopefully. I hope to post some photos of the whole kaboodle then. 

[mikeDnight]

8 hours ago, 25585 said:

 Takahashi's ungainly single-lock clamshell

It appears your autospell check has unwittingly written "ungainly" instead of "beautiful", "amazing", "classic" or "sylish"!    Technology eh! 

[Timebandit]

8 hours ago, 25585 said:

Takahashi's ungainly single-lock clamshell clamp 

 

10 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

It appears your autospell check has unwittingly written "ungainly" instead of "beautiful", "amazing", "classic" or "sylish"!    Technology eh! 

 

I think the spell check was over generous with " ungainly ". As a high quality scope Tak,  the clamshell may function adequately for its intended purpose. But I would of thought that Tak wanting there scopes to be seen as the bee's knee's in all departments could make a clamp that is far more pleasing to the eye?

Bit like having a Rolls Royce and putting pressed steel wheels on it, The clamp IMO does look as its from the Ark a bit Taky , so maybe time for a re design for some thing more specTakular ??

 

 

[John]

The Takahashi tube clamp works superbly IMHO. They have been using this design, with a few tweaks now and then, since 1967. Takahashi started out as an alloy casting company for optical instruments in 1932 which is why their clamps, focusers and the old style FS dust caps were made this way. It marks their tradition and background as a company. They do no flex at all, are simple to adjust and hold the tube very securely.

By the way, a really long dovetail bar (even a Losmandy design)  with 2 tube rings on the furthest ends of it, will flex a little and some vibration at high powers may well be visable. I would consider putting put the tube rings closer together with, say, just 200mm or so of bar between them or use the 4 tube rings that you originally planned, spaced out evenly along the DT bar. I gained this experience mounting long refractors in the past.

If tube rings are what you desire for the scope then personally I think the Japanese made ones (see link below) are the way to go and match the lens cell and focuser trim of the FC range. I'd use them with a 200mm or 250mm Vixen/Skywatcher DT bar and they will do a good job as well as be aesthetically pleasing. Not low cost but owning a Takahashi is not a budget proposition.

https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.kyoei-osaka.jp/SHOP/k-astec-tb95n.html

Me, I'm very happy with the tube clamp that Takahashi have designed and carefully made for this scope. They know more about telescope design than I do and I'm proud to use the scope this way

 

[25585]

All 4 rings will be used John! The nearer 2 will eventually have a short dove bar joining their tops for a sight & finder. 

I am keeping my Tak tube clamps! The DL version being longer could have been given 2 locks - equivalent of 2 separate rings. Room for a DIY mod is there! I wish Takahashi had kept black focusers for their 2nd run, if I replace the OE, are there any models with long enough focus travel for bino viewers as standard? Or perhaps a helical focuser would suffice added to the OE.  

Primaluce red goes nicely with Tak white tubes, in a cream tea kind of way (darker than in photos). I can recommend the bar and rings for strength and secure fixing. It's nice to have a good manufacturer covering so many OTA diameters this side of the pond as well.  Shipping is free for orders over a certain amount, if bought direct from Primaluce. They also have slightly lower prices if payment is made by bank transfer. 

I never thought the Tak clamshell alone, with its single lock was satisfactory. Ian King offers 2 Parallax rings & bar as an alternative, but they have a budget look to me. I would have settled for beefy CNC, but Teleskop Express only sell 90mm or 100+mm. 

[Stu]

5 minutes ago, 25585 said:

Ian King offers 2 Parallax rings & bar as an alternative

Exactly what I use and totally stable at very high power loaded with binoviewers etc.

Why is the Tak clamp not sufficient? Have you read any stories about Taks falling to the floor because the clamp has broken, or suddenly decided to undo itself?

[25585]

1 hour ago, Timebandit said:

 

 

I think the spell check was over generous with " ungainly ". As a high quality scope Tak,  the clamshell may function adequately for its intended purpose. But I would of thought that Tak wanting there scopes to be seen as the bee's knee's in all departments could make a clamp that is far more pleasing to the eye?

Bit like having a Rolls Royce and putting pressed steel wheels on it, The clamp IMO does look as its from the Ark a bit Taky , so maybe time for a re design for some thing more specTakular ??

 

 

Tak needs the Vixen aesthetic, not SW! Clamp looks like a Skytee 2 accessory made downtown, not one for a high end, high class refractor. 

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, 25585 said:

The nearer 2 will eventually have a short dove bar joining their tops for a sight & finder. 

Please don’t tell me it is for extra stability!!!!  

[25585]

1 minute ago, Stu said:

Exactly what I use and totally stable at very high power loaded with binoviewers etc.

Why is the Tak clamp not sufficient? Have you read any stories about Taks falling to the floor because the clamp has broken, or suddenly decided to undo itself?

Not for any scope on any mounting. 

[25585]

2 minutes ago, Stu said:

Please don’t tell me it is for extra stability!!!!  

Now that you mention it

Weak point anywhere, if there is one, is the bar clamp only fixing to my Skytee 2 with 2 M6 bolts. I do like Tak using M8..

[Timebandit]

59 minutes ago, John said:

The Takahashi tube clamp works superbly IMHO. They have been using this design, with a few tweaks now and then, since 1967. Takahashi started out as an alloy casting company for optical instruments in 1932 which is why their clamps, focusers and the old style FS dust caps were made this way. It marks their tradition and background as a company. They do no flex at all, are simple to adjust and hold the tube very securely.

By the way, a really long dovetail bar (even a Losmandy design)  with 2 tube rings on the furthest ends of it, will flex a little and some vibration at high powers may well be visable. I would consider putting put the tube rings closer together with, say, just 200mm or so of bar between them or use the 4 tube rings that you originally planned, spaced out evenly along the DT bar. I gained this experience mounting long refractors in the past.

If tube rings are what you desire for the scope then personally I think the Japanese made ones (see link below) are the way to go and match the lens cell and focuser trim of the FC range. I'd use them with a 200mm or 250mm Vixen/Skywatcher DT bar and they will do a good job as well as be aesthetically pleasing. Not low cost but owning a Takahashi is not a budget proposition.

https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.kyoei-osaka.jp/SHOP/k-astec-tb95n.html

Me, I'm very happy with the tube clamp that Takahashi have designed and carefully made for this scope. They know more about telescope design than I do and I'm proud to use the scope this way

 

 

From an engineering back ground. The only real reason for flex is that the quality of the material used is not sufficient for the task. Or the thickness of the material used is not sufficient for the weight / leverage force being applied. Obviously manufacturing process and design process can eliminate this. 

A few tweaks but from 1967 (clamp). This may not be from the Ark ?. But should there not be a thought of improvement and innovation over the years? Or if its not broke don't fix it thought going on? Or keep the design budget down, but still charge a premium price. Henry Ford and his model T , he kept innovation and improving his concept. Maybe Tak is just not a forward thinking business and that is why the likes of SW with ed , esprit are really producing quality scopes at affordable prices for Mr Average Joe ?

 

 

 

[Pig]

I agree with John the clamp works superbly and has a rock solid hold on the scope, it is also very easy to slide the scope in either direction without having to undo everything and without fear of dropping anything ? zero vibrations too !!

[25585]

I guess as cheap "braces" fastening back-up, a couple of thin straps on a clamp, one each side of the thumbscrew would do. 

Next gardening centre I visit...

[Timebandit]

46 minutes ago, Pig said:

I agree with John the clamp works superbly and has a rock solid hold on the scope, it is also very easy to slide the scope in either direction without having to undo everything and without fear of dropping anything ? zero vibrations too !!

 

But its still in the Dark ages?. Tak charge enough for there products and the extras, so they should spend a bit bringing it from the 67 era into today's market. It looks like some sort of over size  plumbing fitting.

That's me on a yellow card now for upsetting SGL Tak club ?

 

 

 

[25585]

1 hour ago, Timebandit said:

 

But its still in the Dark ages?. Tak charge enough for there products and the extras, so they should spend a bit bringing it from the 67 era into today's market. It looks like some sort of over size  plumbing fitting.

That's me on a yellow card now for upsetting SGL Tak club ?

 

 

 

I was thinking manacles . Bolt 2 Tak clamps base to base, and you have a strong pair of wrist cuffs. 

[Pig]

I used to think the clamp was ugly but it’s well thought out simplicity makes such a breeze of proceedings, especially in the dark. My experiences with this lovely machined clamp has won me over and made me change my mind. I now think it is a beauty ?.... @Timebandit it sure does look like a plumbing union of some kind ?

[Highburymark]

Redesigning the Tak clamp would make as much sense as Mercedes ditching its three point star  - or Televue moving to a new colour scheme. It's among the most recognisable features of one of the most iconic brands in astronomy. Agree it's not really a thing of beauty - more a piece of functional design that over the years has become a classic - like a Zippo lighter or Maglite torch