Would Infra Red mess up my imaging ??

[Skipper Billy]

I am considering installing a small IP camera so I can see whats going on in my obsy from my remote location.

Something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/I-P-Camera-1-3-MP-Megapixel-1280x-960p-Outdoor-Colour-Nightvision-P2P-HD-Onvif/111367937501?hash=item19ee0bdddd:g:Rg4AAOSwv0tVYzQv

It looks like its got IR emitters built into it.

Would this mess up my images - broadband and/or narrowband ??

Thanks in advance.

[Thalestris24]

Hi

Probably not! Your scopes and cameras should be light tight apart from where they're supposed to let light in, of course. Because I image from indoors I often have a fair bit of ambient light in the same room as the scope and it doesn't cause a problem. Screens are on and I might open the door and put the light on in the hall or kitchen - no problemo! Light is an anathema to observers but imagers can get away with being fairly relaxed about it (just my personal opinion!). Low level infra red light shouldn't pose any particular difficulties.

Louise

 

[harry page]

Hi

You have to be very careful that it does not shine into the light path otherwise It will cause problems

I have seen this when trying to diagnose other peoples problems ., 1 turned out to be the neighbours security cameras

even though they had a IR filter on the camera

Harry

[Skipper Billy]

Thanks Louise and Harry

Maybe have to rethink that one then.

Or mount the camera under the scope looking up so its never in the path of the scope ??

I just want to be able to see whats going on whilst I get some confidence in SGP - with EQMOD I could set custom limits so the OTA could never touch the walls of the obsy - can't do that in SGP!

[harry page]

Hi

If you shine the camera up wards you are shining a floodlight into the sky !!!!!!!

even though I have not tried this I would point it down

Harry

[Thalestris24]

Yeah, so long as it's pointing down-ish and from behind the scope, it shouldn't be a problem at all. The camera says it has a range of 20m which is really for illuminating/looking down a garden or something. Maybe get a less powerful one? You could just do a test with a lamp or torch illuminating the scene? 

Louise

[Gina]

Interesting thread - thank you Skipper Billy and everyone for their replies   I've been thinking of doing the same thing.

[Skipper Billy]

17 hours ago, harry page said:

If you shine the camera up wards you are shining a floodlight into the sky !!!!!!!

But if its infra red it wouldnt be seen or have any effect on images ?? Or would it ???

 

[RayD]

I did ask the same question some time ago and didn't really get a definitive response, so went ahead and experimented with it.  I have 2 cameras in my main scope room, one of which is connected to the main house CCTV system so has a number of IR lights.  The other is a very small £40 one from Amazon with pan and tilt, but it also has the ability to remotely turn off the IR light.

I have imaged with the main camera connected and disconnected and there was no difference at all.  Obviously the IR lights on these cameras are quite bright, and you can indeed see the red glow with the naked eye when you look at them.  I'm happy to take a sub with and without IR lights on mine when the sky is clear so you can decide yourself whether there is an impact.

My camera is mounted on the N wall of the room in an area behind my imaging line, and is mounted at scope height pointing very slightly downwards.

I'll post a pic shortly to show the position of my camera relative to the OTA.

Edit: Just taken pic below to show location of my camera which seemingly has no impact at all on my images (wall behind OTA is South).

[Thalestris24]

3 hours ago, Skipper Billy said:

But if its infra red it wouldnt be seen or have any effect on images ?? Or would it ???

 

Shouldn't do! There are likely ir filters in your optical train. Your guide camera may have ir sensitivity though!

Louise

[Skipper Billy]

On 17/12/2017 at 11:53, RayD said:

The other is a very small £40 one from Amazon with pan and tilt, but it also has the ability to remotely turn off the IR light.

@RayD  I cant find a camera that does this - do you have  link ??  It sounds like the perfect solution !!

Happy Christmas.

[Stub Mandrel]

I see it as being the equivalent of shining a torch across the end of your scope  - would you do that?

I always unplug our security camera when I'm imaging.

[Thalestris24]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I see it as being the equivalent of shining a torch across the end of your scope  - would you do that?

I always unplug our security camera when I'm imaging.

It shouldn't affect any camera that has an infra-red filter i.e. most setups will filter IR at some point, at least.

Louise

[RayD]

4 hours ago, Skipper Billy said:

@RayD  I cant find a camera that does this - do you have  link ??  It sounds like the perfect solution !!

Happy Christmas.

This is the 1080p version of the little one I have David.  It looks like they don't have any 720p ones at the moment, but they are only £39.99 so may be worth hanging on for one as the quality of the video is spot on.

It is wifi and runs via a free smart phone app.  It pans and tilts and you can either just view live or put an SD card in it.  It also has 2 way audio, so you can actually use it to listen only or to speak to the other end if necessary (handy when dinner is ready ?).

As noted you can turn the IR light off via the app.

Obviously it is designed as an indoor camera, but my thoughts were that it won't be exposed to the rain (I'd be more worried about my astro kit than this if it was raining), so should be fine in the obsy.  It's worked great so far and at £40 has been ideal for this purpose.

[Skipper Billy]

Great stuff - thank  you and Happy Christmas!

David.

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, Thalestris24 said:

It shouldn't affect any camera that has an infra-red filter i.e. most setups will filter IR at some point, at least.

Louise

I've looked it up.

My DSLR is stage 1 astro modded so cuts at about 700nm, and IR LEDs on security lights are typically 850nm.

I just did an experiment and it picks up the two red LEDs on the camera very clearly, with the four IR LEDs around each red one visible but faint.

So, I think you are right as I don't think they will create anywhere near as much glow as light leaking from other light sources around my imaging patch.

[Thalestris24]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I've looked it up.

My DSLR is stage 1 astro modded so cuts at about 700nm, and IR LEDs on security lights are typically 850nm.

I just did an experiment and it picks up the two red LEDs on the camera very clearly, with the four IR LEDs around each red one visible but faint.

So, I think you are right as I don't think they will create anywhere near as much glow as light leaking from other light sources around my imaging patch.

Yes, you'd expect it to pick up visible red light (hopefully Ha). But actual IR should be blocked by filters e.g. lp filters, luminance filter, r,g.b filters, narrowband filters. I'd imagine you'd likely be imaging with at least one of them. My full-spectrum modded 1100d, on the other hand, is very good at detecting IR (and UV) and I've done a fair bit of imaging in IR with IR pass filters.

Louise

Louise

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Thalestris24 said:

Yes, you'd expect it to pick up visible red light (hopefully Ha). But actual IR should be blocked by filters e.g. lp filters, luminance filter, r,g.b filters, narrowband filters. I'd imagine you'd likely be imaging with at least one of them. My full-spectrum modded 1100d, on the other hand, is very good at detecting IR (and UV) and I've done a fair bit of imaging in IR with IR pass filters.

Louise

Louise

I left the wideband filter over the sensor, I just took the cyan Ha-Killer filter off.

[Thalestris24]

My qhy5l-ii mono is very sensitive to IR light and I use it with an IR pass filter for guiding  So best keep any extraneous IR illumination well away! 

Louise

[MarsG76]

Good thread and question...  I was thinking the same thing. I imagine it would depend on whether the IR is getting into the light path, and what filters are used during the exposure and cover the view finder if using a DSLR. A lot of stray light can get in through there.