APT, EQMOD and Stellarium, help needed

[LightBucket]

Hi,

i am in need of some help, I have an EQ6 mount  which I use EQMOD with, but want to mover into using it when imaging, with APT and Stellarium and am looking for a workflow of connecting them all and getting them to all work together, what do I need and how do I get them all talking to each other.

I know they do all work together, but not sure where to start....

[kendg]

You also need the Stellarium Telescope control plugin. The latest version works with v0.15 and v0.16

While I use BYEOS instead of APT, I think these steps will get you there

1) set the handset to PC control

2) Start the Stellarium scope control plugin to connect to the mount via eqmod.

3) once connected you can use the scope in Stellarium

4) you can use PHD now with eqmod

5) you can use Astrotortilla too

6) APT should now connect to eqmod too

The key is the Stellarium Telescope control plugin (at least for me.)

[LightBucket]

11 minutes ago, kendg said:

You also need the Stellarium Telescope control plugin. The latest version works with v0.15 and v0.16

While I use BYEOS instead of APT, I think these steps will get you there

1) set the handset to PC control

2) Start the Stellarium scope control plugin to connect to the mount via eqmod.

3) once connected you can use the scope in Stellarium

4) you can use PHD now with eqmod

5) you can use Astrotortilla too

6) APT should now connect to eqmod too

The key is the Stellarium Telescope control plugin (at least for me.)

Thanks, but why do I need to set the handset to PC control when I don’t use the handset, I use EQMOD, via an EQMOD cable connected from the mount to the PC..?

[Marci]

Hook it all up, start Ascom POTHub, connect to scope after choosing appropriate Ascom EQMod driver.

Open Stellarium Scope Control, set it up to connect to POT Hub for Scope, launch Stellarium

(Optional: Open PHD2, connect to guide cam and POT Hub for Scope.)

Open APT, connect to POT Hub for Scope. (If detects PHD running, should auto setup dithering)

Use APT platesolving to sort alignment, which will auto-add sync points on solve. Or if using PHD you can use it's drift align routine (my preference).

Done.

Flip to Stellarium, pick & slew to target. (Opt: PHD should auto choose star and start guiding). Flip to APT, (optional: find target in obj chooser, platesolve & auto align to target to let APT centre precisely on target... then use focus aid to perfect focus on a star in frame.)

Set up your shooting sequence, hit go.

Launch DeepSkyStacker Live, point it wherever APT is storing frames, leave it to auto stack and stretch for realtime stacked preview.

[LightBucket]

11 minutes ago, Marci said:

Hook it all up, start Ascom POTHub, connect to scope after choosing appropriate Ascom EQMod driver.

Open Stellarium Scope Control, set it up to connect to POT Hub for Scope, launch Stellarium

Open PHD2, connect to guide cam and POT Hub for Scope.

Open APT, connect to POT Hub for Scope.

Use APT platesolving to sort alignment, which will auto-add sync points on solve.

Done.

Flip to Stellarium, pick & slew to target. PHD should auto choose star and start guiding. Flip to APT, (optional: find target in obj chooser, platesolve & auto align to target to let APT centre precisely on target... then use focus aid to perfect focus on a star in frame.)

Set up your shooting sequence, hit go.

Launch DeepSkyStacker Live, point it wherever APT is storing frames, leave it to auto stack and stretch for realtime stacked preview.

Thanks for that

surely the first list you wrote above is not needed, why use the POThub at all, can’t I just start with Stellarium scope connect to the EQMOD Ascom driver, and move on from there..connecting APT and PHD...., or am I missing something...

[kendg]

If you have the eqdirect cable then forget about the handset.

I don't have one yet, but will soon.

[Marci]

Some drivers work as a hub natively, some don't and require the use of POT Hub. I found with my NEQ6 & the EQMOD driver for it I have to use the POTHub to get all apps communicating successfully... if I select the EQMod driver directly in each, various bits lose or can't initiate connection to the mount.

The above is essentially the foolproof method. If you always use POT Hub then regardless of the scope driver, all will communicate without issue.

[LightBucket]

When you initially set up the EQ6 scope in the home position pointing at the pole, then switch on Stellarium scope and Stellarium, and in Stellarium it will show where your mount is pointing, how does it know where it’s pointing, as if I have moved about with clutches released, then put back to home position with clutches released, how does it have any idea where the scope is pointing...?

[Starlight 1]

Well it take it from Eqmod . but if the mount do not have encoders it can not go back to the same place if you move the mount my hand.

[geordie85]

Stellarium doesn't know where it's pointing, it assumes that's where it's pointing as that is the original park position and starting point.

As it's a program to control your mount I'm confused as to why you would want to release the clutches and manually move it? That would be like buying a car then pushing it everywhere. 

[spillage]

You can just not bother with stellarium or cdc.

I just start up phd2 and connect to mount and guide cam open apt connect to camera and mount. You could just open apt but as this is just my routine to check everything is connecting and working before going to far.

Either do a auto or manual platesolve then click sync and then choose my target from the list within apt let it do its thing and start imaging.

I sometime use cdc which I would connect to the mount and this is synced to apt. Sure stellarium would do the same.

[Marci]

2 hours ago, LightBucket said:

When you initially set up the EQ6 scope in the home position pointing at the pole, then switch on Stellarium scope and Stellarium, and in Stellarium it will show where your mount is pointing, how does it know where it’s pointing, as if I have moved about with clutches released, then put back to home position with clutches released, how does it have any idea where the scope is pointing...?

It doesn't until you've done some form of alignment and added sync points, hence...

"Use APT platesolving to sort alignment, which will auto-add sync points on solve."

Once you've done that, it syncs what you're pointing at physically with Stellarium. From that point on you leave clutches alone and only move Scope via EQMOD control.

[LightBucket]

1 hour ago, geordie85 said:

Stellarium doesn't know where it's pointing, it assumes that's where it's pointing as that is the original park position and starting point.

As it's a program to control your mount I'm confused as to why you would want to release the clutches and manually move it? That would be like buying a car then pushing it everywhere. 

Lol, 

you misunderstand me, I mean move it by hand to the home position, not all around the sky, I’m not that stupid....well maybe

[LightBucket]

So basically any programme that is used to control the mount, will assume that when powered up, it’s in the home position..?if that is correct, then I fully understand, I realised it must have a starting point, even before any align process..

I know I sound thick, but I know the mount really well now physically, but using an EQ mount with software is all new to me, comimg from a fork mounted SCT..

[Marci]

EQ6 range are pretty much _designed_ to have the mount always parked to home at power on/power off.

The EQ6 range support PEC (periodic error correction) etc, but such features work only if the mount is constantly locked to a 'known' position mechanically, as PEC corrects for defects etc in the gears between the motors and the mount head. 

I've marked lines on the casing so that if I ever do need to unlock the clutches I can always return things to the same point (as near as visually possible) so as not to throw the PEC off. This is always done with the mount powered off and in it's 'home' position.

That said, I'll guess you won't have got as far as PEC training etc.

S'all optional really, especially if your mount isn't in a fixed location & perfectly (repeatable) aligned... but best to learn good habits than slouch into bad habits that may trip you up later on in your journey.

[LightBucket]

17 minutes ago, Marci said:

EQ6 range are pretty much _designed_ to have the mount always parked to home at power on/power off.

The EQ6 range support PEC (periodic error correction) etc, but such features work only if the mount is constantly locked to a 'known' position mechanically, as PEC corrects for defects etc in the gears between the motors and the mount head. 

I've marked lines on the casing so that if I ever do need to unlock the clutches I can always return things to the same point (as near as visually possible) so as not to throw the PEC off. This is always done with the mount powered off and in it's 'home' position.

That said, I'll guess you won't have got as far as PEC training etc.

S'all optional really, especially if your mount isn't in a fixed location & perfectly (repeatable) aligned... but best to learn good habits than slouch into bad habits that may trip you up later on in your journey.

My EQ6 is belt modded, so not sure how much PEC will help... far less gears to worry about, I certainly don’t have any backlash, well none noticeable anyway..

so was my last statement correct, in that software to control the mount, will always assume the mount is in home position at software startup..??

[Marci]

Not really. The mount itself expects that. On power on, the mount always says it's at 90/0deg, which equates to a perfect polar alignment... ie: the home position.

Your software just gets RA / DEC from the mount and believes it unless you correct it by adding more sync points to pull it into line.

Everything is from the assumption that you're polar aligned using only alt/az adjustments prior to switching the mount on. If it is, and you powered on at the home position, then theoretically everything should be more or less sync'd up from the last session without you having to redo sync points etc.

[geordie85]

4 hours ago, LightBucket said:

Lol, 

you misunderstand me, I mean move it by hand to the home position, not all around the sky, I’m not that stupid....well maybe

Yes sorry, I have misunderstood you. As above, the standard starting point should be the home position (north if in the northern hemisphere) so the software will assume your scope and mount are perfectly polar aligned and pointing north.

[Tangoringo]

Apologies for piggybacking on this topic but im starting off on a similar route with similar equipment.

When you say about using the POTH hub/driver do you lose any capabilities when compared to the EQ5/6 drivers in the drop down menu's? I was going to ask about why use the POTH hub but you have already answered that above for which I thank you. I am having the exact problem you mention in that individually I can get my QHY/SBIG and HEQ5 pro working but stick them all together using Maxim5/APT etc and it all goes for a ball of chalk. Guess what Im going to be trying tonight ;-))

Thanks for starting this very enlightening thread and for all the handy advice.

Cheers,

Ian

[geordie85]

1 hour ago, Tangoringo said:

Apologies for piggybacking on this topic but im starting off on a similar route with similar equipment.

When you say about using the POTH hub/driver do you lose any capabilities when compared to the EQ5/6 drivers in the drop down menu's? I was going to ask about why use the POTH hub but you have already answered that above for which I thank you. I am having the exact problem you mention in that individually I can get my QHY/SBIG and HEQ5 pro working but stick them all together using Maxim5/APT etc and it all goes for a ball of chalk. Guess what Im going to be trying tonight ;-))

Thanks for starting this very enlightening thread and for all the handy advice.

Cheers,

Ian

Some very useful links that got me up and running but I use stellarium scope and Astrotortilla. Still may be of use to you.

Setting up stellarium scope and eqmod

http://www.lightvortexastronomy.com/tutorial-setting-up-an-equatorial-mount-on-ascom-with-eqmod-stellarium-and-cartes-du-ciel.html

Setting up Astrotortilla 

http://www.lightvortexastronomy.com/tutorial-setting-up-and-using-astrotortilla-for-plate-solving.html

Hope these help

[Marci]

On 19/09/2017 at 18:28, Tangoringo said:

When you say about using the POTH hub/driver do you lose any capabilities when compared to the EQ5/6 drivers in the drop down menu's?

No.

[LightBucket]

I have had all the above softwares connected together without using POTH and no issues at all, just using native ASCOM drivers...

[rubecula]

Apologies also from me for piggybacking.  I've just bought an EQ6-R moving from an AVX so have never used EQMOD. Can I assume that it will all work if I substitute SGPro for APT?

Thanks

[IanL]

On 9/18/2017 at 17:01, Marci said:

EQ6 range are pretty much _designed_ to have the mount always parked to home at power on/power off.

The EQ6 range support PEC (periodic error correction) etc, but such features work only if the mount is constantly locked to a 'known' position mechanically, as PEC corrects for defects etc in the gears between the motors and the mount head. 

I've marked lines on the casing so that if I ever do need to unlock the clutches I can always return things to the same point (as near as visually possible) so as not to throw the PEC off. This is always done with the mount powered off and in it's 'home' position.

That said, I'll guess you won't have got as far as PEC training etc.

S'all optional really, especially if your mount isn't in a fixed location & perfectly (repeatable) aligned... but best to learn good habits than slouch into bad habits that may trip you up later on in your journey.

EQMod allows you define a number of arbitrary park positions.  I can't close my observatory roof with the mount parked in the home position, so I have a 'Park to Home' and a 'Park to Roof Closed' setting defined.

With regard to PEC, it's a common misconception that unlocking the clutches and moving the mount will 'break' PEC. Again in EQMOD, PEC only cares about the relationship between encoder position and the gear train (most importantly the worm gear). If you unlock a clutch and move the scope, the gear train does not move, and so PEC is not affected at all. The problem arises if you have the clutch engaged or partly engaged and manage to move the mount and gear train (not a good idea anyway due to the risk of damaging gears). The 'encoder' for older EQ6 mounts is actually just the controller counting the number of stepper motor steps in each direction as there is no actual encoder. Since the gears move without the stepper being driven, the physical gear position gets out of sync with where PEC thinks it should be.

[LightBucket]

4 hours ago, rubecula said:

Apologies also from me for piggybacking.  I've just bought an EQ6-R moving from an AVX so have never used EQMOD. Can I assume that it will all work if I substitute SGPro for APT?

Thanks

Yes it will work perfectly..