Refractor choice?

[Dave1]

Thanks for the link John, unfortunately all the link post on the thread on Cloudy nights didn't work. However I have manages on the Istar and other places to find good to very good reviews including detailed test of Istar 150mm F10 and 150mm F15. 

Dave

 

[John]

Sorry about that - the link to the D&G test does seem to be not working currently.

From a precis in another post on that forum I gather that it was an OK test result but nothing outstanding.

If I was going to own another long Istar refractor I think it would be the Asteria 5" F/12 R30 like the one that Neil English used to own

I don't think they make them any more though

[Dave1]

I think I managed to find the said test reproduced somewhere else. Was a good read. Shame I missed the boat with Istar long fracs. 

[nightfisher]

All this talk of long white tubes has led me to placing a wanted add for a Tal 100 rs Mk1...though i doubt if one will come up

[John]

11 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

All this talk of long white tubes has led me to placing a wanted add for a Tal 100 rs Mk1...though i doubt if one will come up

Well you never know Jules - fingers crossed

A bit more expensive than the TAL but I thought this looked decent too:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=128744

 

[nightfisher]

6 minutes ago, John said:

Well you never know Jules - fingers crossed

A bit more expensive than the TAL but I thought this looked decent too:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=128744

 

I did own the Starwave 102 F11 along side my Tal 100, this was just my own opinion but i felt the Tal had a slight edge over the F11, though maybe i had a very good Tal. I have to admit though i have a wanted add i dont really see the point in getting a long white tube again, i have the 127 Mak for high power astro and i would benefit more from a shorter frac for low power i.e a 102 600

[Fozzie]

32 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

All this talk of long white tubes has led me to placing a wanted add for a Tal 100 rs Mk1...though i doubt if one will come up

Fingers crossed for you Jules.... oh look John just beat me too it! Iwas just about to post that link.. about £90 off the rrp. And its white, most the new ones are in gorgeous candy apple red.. which is fine if you like that kind of thing... which i do... maybe just on a skylight though!

[nightfisher]

Getting back to the OP thread, still think the bresser 127L is super value, gets very strong reviews and would at least give the OP a feeling for a long achro and fun sorting out a decent mount, then if it whets the appetite it could be sold to fund a longer frac

[Chris]

1 hour ago, nightfisher said:

Getting back to the OP thread, still think the bresser 127L is super value, gets very strong reviews and would at least give the OP a feeling for a long achro and fun sorting out a decent mount, then if it whets the appetite it could be sold to fund a longer frac

From a practical point of view I totally agree, Jules, the 127L was mountable and gave fantastic views for just a few hundred quid. I sense the OP wants something a bit more bespoke, better finished, and even longer.

I find the difference in finish quite profound between Bresser's sub 4" refactors and Bresser's larger 4" above refractors, the later are very nicely finished for the price if you ask me  

I saw your Tal ad Jules, and thought exactly what you've just said, you have a long focus scope like myself and we both could do with a shorter frac to fill the gap   

[nightfisher]

2 hours ago, Lockie said:

From a practical point of view I totally agree, Jules, the 127L was mountable and gave fantastic views for just a few hundred quid. I sense the OP wants something a bit more bespoke, better finished, and even longer.

I find the difference in finish quite profound between Bresser's sub 4" refactors and Bresser's larger 4" above refractors, the later are very nicely finished for the price if you ask me  

I saw your Tal ad Jules, and thought exactly what you've just said, you have a long focus scope like myself and we both could do with a shorter frac to fill the gap   

I have pulled the add for the Tal, if one comes up any time i might pounce on it, but for now a short frac will be best

[Dave1]

On ‎09‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 09:15, Moonshane said:

I quite fancy one of the newer 100mm f11s but for a pst mod to smarten up my current old scruffy Tal.

Not in any way trying to dissuade you but i am interested as to why someone would spend £2k on a slow achromat vs say a 120ed.

I've been seriously looking at ED's for the first time ever. I am curios to know how a 120Ed F7.5 fares against an F12-F15 127mm achro? Are they really that much better? I choose 127mm because that as close as I could get to a 120mm in old long focus refractors.

[Moonshane]

 I've never used a 5" slow achro but would guess that they are on a par but presume the ed  is substantially easier to mount and cheaper too.

[Dave1]

Ah yes the points you state are the reason I asked if you had done a comparison. As I had already thought about them. When the cost of a decent 4-5" F11-F15 achro plus mount, cost wise its getting on for £2000. 

That can buy decent ED glass, triplets and doublets. I'm purely visual. I like the look of the Skywatcher Equinox 120 ED Pro, I also like the look of the New Altair Wave Series 125 EDF FPL53 doublet. I like the fact the Altair Wave 125 EDF FPL53 can take binoviewers out of the box.

Dave

 

[John]

I'ved owned the Bresser 127L and a Skywatcher 120 F/8.3. Both decent achromats I thought. The Bresser was the better performer (extra 7mm !) and showed less CA (F/9.4). For the past 3 years I've owned a Skywatcher ED120 and it's a superb scope IMHO. Virtually no CA on any object at focus and the ability to handle high magnifications ie: 250x - 300x, with relative ease, seeing conditions permitting. The achromats seemed to "run out of puff", comparatively speaking, at around 200x. The ED120 is easier to mount as well. The downside is that the ED120 costs about 2.5x as much on the used market. Worth every penny to me though 

I reckon you would need a fine quality F/15 120/127 achromat to equal the optical performance of the ED120. I don't fancy finding a mount for that in all honesty !

 

[Moonshane]

They were my thoughts John but based on what others have said. You have owned some of the scopes discussed so can talk with a lot more authority than I can.

Dave if you can get to a star party I bet you'd be able to try a few then decide.

[John]

10 hours ago, nightfisher said:

I did own the Starwave 102 F11 along side my Tal 100, this was just my own opinion but i felt the Tal had a slight edge over the F11, though maybe i had a very good Tal. I have to admit though i have a wanted add i dont really see the point in getting a long white tube again, i have the 127 Mak for high power astro and i would benefit more from a shorter frac for low power i.e a 102 600

I think there is variation in the optical quality of the TAL 100's based on my experience of the 2 I owned. The 1st (one of the early ones imported to the UK back in 1999) was very nice indeed, fully as good as the Vixen SP 102M that I'd owned before it. The 2nd TAL 100, owned much more recently, was not too good in all honesty

Here is a CN thread on the topic of 102 F/11 vs TAL 100:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/422700-comparing-tal-100-rs-with-ts-102-f11/

ED100 seems to (slightly) trump them both !

[Dave1]

Thanks for the replies. My local astronomy club in the town I live in, meets once a month for "meetings". Which sometimes have guest speakers, but they never actually do and observing. I will have to see if there is another club that hold monthly meetings.

I was meant to have come to Flo and Stargazers lounge star party last year, booked it. But I couldn't make it in the end.

[wookie1965]

24 minutes ago, John said:

I think there is variation in the optical quality of the TAL 100's based on my experience of the 2 I owned. The 1st (one of the early ones imported to the UK back in 1999) was very nice indeed, fully as good as the Vixen SP 102M that I'd owned before it. The 2nd TAL 100, owned much more recently, was not too good in all honesty

Here is a CN thread on the topic of 102 F/11 vs TAL 100:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/422700-comparing-tal-100-rs-with-ts-102-f11/

ED100 seems to (slightly) trump them both !

I have the Tal 100rs and it is brilliant really clear views could not fault it.

[Alien 13]

One refractor on my must have list is the new WO 61, I would have it purely for visual though.

Alan 

[Moonshane]

One of the problems we have now it seems is that all scopes are excellent and we seem to agonize over which one is a bit more excellent than the others. ?

[wookie1965]

16 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

One of the problems we have now it seems is that all scopes are excellent and we seem to agonize over which one is a bit more excellent than the others. ?

Having only had two refactors I am no expert, I can only give my honest opinion on what I view. But your right everyone is going to say different scopes are better I could get a 120ed and think its amazing, unless you could line them all up and look through each one and its different strokes for different folks. 

[Dave1]

16 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

One of the problems we have now it seems is that all scopes are excellent and we seem to agonize over which one is a bit more excellent than the others. ?

So very true. 

[John]

1 hour ago, wookie1965 said:

I have the Tal 100rs and it is brilliant really clear views could not fault it.

My first one was superb as well

[Chris]

1 hour ago, Alien 13 said:

One refractor on my must have list is the new WO 61, I would have it purely for visual though.

Alan 

I keep coming so close to buying this scope, Alan, I have the money ready, what's stopping me? I think it's all the other blooming great options out there   

[John]

It's not possible to try all the options for oneself of course (though I'd like to give it a go someday )

What we can do is to read as many reviews, reports, tests and opinions as possible. They won't all agree of course (well, only rarely) but after a while trends do start to emerge so you can at least shorten the odds of getting something that you are likely to find really sasifying to use. It's not a 100% approach but perhaps gets you into 80% territory which is perhaps as confident as you can get without actually trying something for yourself ?