ZWO EFW x8 Filters set-up: No Connection

[RayD]

Yes agree.  Sorry I just assumed you had it plugged in as I think to power the filter wheel the power is needed to the hub.

[Gina]

I would say so.  Never occurred my that it might not TBH.

[groberts]

On 08/01/2017 at 11:32, Magnus_e said:

Just to check, have you connected the 12v power to the camera?

Not sure, but the usb hub on the camera might work better when it has power. If the camera is not powered then one usb port from the pc is supplying power to both the camera and fw, and things might be less stable.

My 7 slot wheel does work connected to the camera without power, but your pc's usb port might supply less amps than mine.

 

// Edit: If you hear a slight noise when connecting fw then i really do suspect a power issue. When the fw is connected it shall rotate so filter nr. 1 is active. (driver independent i think). If it only makes sound and does not move it might be low on power?

I did not as I thought it was only necessary for cooling. However, I'm running out of options and I'll give it a try. Thanks.

[groberts]

So, at first I thought I'd missed something obvious - though the instructions didn't say or even imply the camera need to be powered other than by the USB3.0 cable. However, I have now added the additional power and still am getting the "No EFW detected" message.  

I think I am clean out of ideas now! I will of course go back to the vendor but it is very disappointing - personally I'm convinced it has to be in the camera or related software but can't see / understand where.  When I successfully connect directly from the computer a ZWO / ASCOM Filter Wheel Setup v 6.0.0.6 window appears but not when I try to connect via the camera.  I don't even know where this came from, it doesn't show up in the drivers or in the ASCOM files.

Any other ideas to get this working would be gratefully received.         

[Gina]

Is your cooling working alright?  Do other USB devices work from the camera USB hub?

[groberts]

Haven't tried cooling yet.  I did plug in a mouse which lit up and I presume seems to indicate the ports are working.

[Gina]

I think that just indicates power not necessarily data connection, unless the mouse is working to move the pointer.

[Magnus_e]

Also. A mouse does not use a lot of power, so not the best dev to test with.

ZWO does say the the usb hub is there to power the fw and guide cam. Running two cameras and a fw on a non powered hub will newer work well, so I'm 99% sure the hub on the asi is a powered hub.

 

To eliminate all doubt.

1. connect asi to 12v power and start cooling.

2. connect guidecam and fw to asi and check that they are working (assuming you have confirmed they do when connected to the pc)

3. test that you are getting images from both cameras and can use fw.

 

If [any!] of the above fails I would say your usb hub / or power circuit is defective and you should contact your dealer and replace it for a new (or a repair, depending on local consumer laws).

 

[Oddsocks]

Just to recap on a few points raised.

Class not registered means that APT has no registry link to the ZWO driver so first thing to check, is APT running with administrator privileges? this is different to you being logged on as an administrator. A program may be set to run with administrator privileges that allows it to modify other programs or block other programs from interacting with itself, normally no programs should be running with administrator privileges except under special circumstances. When you are "logged" on as an administrator you are allowed to make changes to programs, add or delete files etc but any program you run does not inherit administrative permissions unless you specifically grant them.

APT should not be run with admin privileges since this will prevent any other program from registering its drivers with APT, but, for a correct Windows install of APT it needs to be run at least once with Administrator rights.

Right click the APT desktop shortcut and choose the "Open File Location" option, look for the APT.exe file and right click, choose "Properties" then click on the "Compatibility" tab, at the bottom of the "Compatibility" tab there is a check box "Run this program as an administrator", it should not be checked, if it is checked then follow from point :A below, if it is not checked then follow from point B:

A: The compatibility tab for the APT.exe program is already checked, "Run this program as an administrator" if so, uncheck the box and "Apply" then "Ok" out of the "Properties" tab. Next run the ZWO installer again, no need to uninstall first, but when you run the ZWO installer right click the ZWO installer program and choose "Run this program as an administrator" when the ZWO installer starts the Windows UAC (user account control) pop-up box should appear asking for your permission to allow the program to make changes to your computer? click yes, this will give the ZWO installer permission to write class registrations in the Windows registry that may have been locked if APT is set to run with administrator privileges ------ Go to point C: below ---------

B: The compatibility tab for the APT.exe program is not checked "Run this program as an administrator", if so, place a check in the box and "Apply" then "Ok" out of the properties tab. Run APT just once, no need to do anything other than open APT, wait a few moments and then close it again, running APT with admin rights checked will allow APT to correctly register with the Windows registry. Open the APT.exe properties again and in the "Compatibility" tab, uncheck "Run this program as an administrator" click "Apply" then "Ok' and exit. Next run the ZWO installer again, no need to uninstall first, but when you run the ZWO installer right click the ZWO installer program and choose "Run this program as an administrator" when the ZWO installer starts the Windows UAC (user account control) pop-up box should appear asking for your permission to allow the program to make changes to your computer? click yes, this will give the ZWO installer permission to write class registrations in the Windows registry that may have been locked if APT is set to run with administrator privileges------- Go to point C: below -----------

C: ----Try connecting the filter wheel again via the camera on-board USB connector, the camera should be connected to a USB 3 port on the computer, not a USB 2 port, maximum current provided via a USB port to a connected device is 500ma on USB 2 and 900ma on USB 3, are you using a guide camera and the filter wheel via the ZWO camera onboard USB 2 ports, if these ports are host powered i.e. they are powered via the camera internal supply this should be ok, the guide camera will be taking at least 500ma from one of the ports and the filter wheel probably at least 200ma, but if the camera USB 2 ports are taking their power from the the computer and you are using a USB 2 port on the computer then maximum power will be exceeded and the computer USB port will be shut down to protect itself-----Does APT now see the filter wheel? try unplugging the guide camera, if attached, and the filter wheel, wait a few moments and plug the filter wheel only back in to the camera on-board port, is it recognised now?

If still not working then disconnect the main camera and F/W open "System", "Device Manager" and expand the USB Serial Bus controllers tree, (image posted below) look at the USB Root Hubs, right click each hub and choose "Properties" then "Power", if you are running a USB keyboard and mouse or keyboard and touch pad then one of these hubs will already be populated with devices drawing power, ignore that Root Hub and look at the next, eventually you will find a Root Hub that has no devices connected, you may find four or more Root Hubs listed in the tree depending how many USB controllers are installed on the computer motherboard, now connect the main camera only, the Power tab should now show a new device attached and the amount of power it is drawing, at the top of the Power Tab it tells you how much (Total) power is available, 500mA for a USB 2 port and 900mA for a USB 3 port, if you see no change you are in the wrong Root Hub, disconnect the camera and move to the next Root Hub and repeat using the same physical USB socket each time until you find which Root Hub is becoming alive when the main camera is plugged in, now plug in the guide camera, if used, to the main camera body, has the power drain increased and by how much? now plug in the F/W, has the power drain increased again or has the port shut down to protect itself? If the main camera is powered up and provides internal power to the onboard USB 2 ports then plugging in the F/W or guide camera will see no change in Root Hub power drain but if the camera onboard USB ports take their power from the computer you may be exceeding the total power available.

 

 

[groberts]

Many thanks for all the help so far and the recent stuff today from Gina, Magnus and Oddsocks, which will have to be my homework for tomorrow and will report back thereafter!

In the meantime I have today been checking some more:

• Plugging the mouse into the USB2.0 camera ports it lights up but does not function in any way;

• I repeated this with my DSLR (which I have previously used OK on the same computer port) with the same result i.e. not recognised + did not work;  

• Using the long lead directly from the computer to the EFW it continues to work well and the EFW shows up as present in an "Unspecified" section of the Devices and Printers Control Panel section.  It does not show up specifically by name in the Device Manager but I was able to identify it in the Human Interface Devices category as both an "HID Compliant Device" as well as a "USB Input Device". SEE PICTURE BELOW

 

When using the short camera to EFW lead none of these were present in the Device sections of the Control Panel.

 

I am always suspicious of my own abilities and knowledge when dealing with this sort of stuff but, it seems to me, that everything points to the USB 2.0 ports not working?  we shall see. 

 

 

[Gina]

Does rather sound like it.

[alcol620]

The 2 USB2 hubs on the ASI1600 camera work as a powered hub, drawing power from the 12v supply to the camera so this has to be on for the USB2 hub to work. It says it is a powered hub in the ZWO literature.

[alcol620]

14 minutes ago, alcol620 said:

The 2 USB2 hubs on the ASI1600 camera work as a powered hub, drawing power from the 12v supply to the camera so this has to be on for the USB2 hub to work. It says it is a powered hub in the ZWO literature.

Sorry kind find where I read that now!!

[alcol620]

There is now a later version of the EFW driver v1.0.0.8 have you tried that?

[groberts]

No but I will today thanks.

[alcol620]

Also just noticed that the ASI ASCOM driver has been updated to version 1.0.2.25 don't know if this will help

[groberts]

OK first of all success, of a sort.  

No change to drivers and without using power, but instead I used the long USB 2.0 lead  provided to connect from the computer to the camera (instead of USB 3.0) + the short USB 2.0 lead from the camera to the EFW and the EFW connection worked!  I am not sure what this means, except if I had to use USB 2.0 instead of USB 3.0 I presume it would slow things down and reduce potential frame rates etc? For the record, the port I have been using all along is USB 3.0 and has always been OK in the past.  Any thoughts what this means + how I can still get USB 3.0 to work?

Notwithstanding, thanks for driver info, I would like to update the drivers but can't find v1.0.0.8 on the ZWO website which still shows v1.0.0.6 - can you provide directions please. 

 

[SkyBound]

I have an ASI120mc-s USB 3 and it won't work at all with any USB cable over 18" it's to do with incompatibility issues with certain USB 3 chipsets in certain computers, I spent a long time trying to work out but to no avail, it worked perfectly with USB 2 cable on same USB 3 port on PC......

Sam from ASI told me that certain USB 3 chipsets were an issue, and it looked like I had one, worked fine on my daughters HP laptop, mine was a Lenovo 

[Magnus_e]

2 hours ago, SkyBound said:

I have an ASI120mc-s USB 3 and it won't work at all with any USB cable over 18" it's to do with incompatibility issues with certain USB 3 chipsets in certain computers, I spent a long time trying to work out but to no avail, it worked perfectly with USB 2 cable on same USB 3 port on PC......

Sam from ASI told me that certain USB 3 chipsets were an issue, and it looked like I had one, worked fine on my daughters HP laptop, mine was a Lenovo 

If this is the case a powered usb3 hub [might!] be the solution to all the experienced problems

[SkyBound]

4 minutes ago, Magnus_e said:

If this is the case a powered usb3 hub [might!] be the solution to all the experienced problems

No that did not work I tried, because the hub still has to be plugged into the computers USB 3 port....

[Magnus_e]

1 minute ago, SkyBound said:

No that did not work I tried, because the hub still has to be plugged into the computers USB 3 port....

Strange. I suspected if the camera works with the short usb3 cable, the short usb3 cable to the hub and presto!

Guess life is not always that easy

[SkyBound]

6 minutes ago, Magnus_e said:

Strange. I suspected if the camera works with the short usb3 cable, the short usb3 cable to the hub and presto!

Guess life is not always that easy

I thought exactly the same thing, but was not the case...

[alcol620]

I connected my new ASI1600 up this evening, I had it running on its own on the short length of USB3 cable a couple of days ago.

I connected its USB3 output using the USB3 cable to a 7 way powered USB2 hub that also has a filter wheel, a focuser motor, a ASI120MC guide camera plugged into it with its ST4 guide cable directly into the mount. Also plugged into the powered hub is a USB to RJ45 serial adapter (FTDI chipset).  A 15 m length of USB 2 cable then takes all the data to the laptop which is indoors. The 15m USB 2 cable is this https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B011RCUKI6/ref=pe_385721_51767431_TE_dp_1. This has all worked well with an Atik camera connected and I thought I could simply substitute the ASI1600.

After a bit of fiddling with the drivers which didn't seem to like the APT software, which I wouldn't be without, I got the camera connected and the APT Cooler and warmer working which it didn't at first. I'm not quite sure what I did to get things working, turned things on and off etc. Didn't uninstall and reinstall drivers, so it was a mystery.

Although tonight wasn't the best conditions, started to take images and although everything seemed to work, including PHD guiding, all through the 7 way hub, the images came out with star trails, despite PHD suggesting that guiding was pretty good. See attached image of the star trails, all circle around the centre of the image and the PHD trace. 

It seems that I am losing the signal from PHD to the mount due to there being to much data going up and down the USB2 cable or I have developed a faulty connection to the mount.

Any idea folks on what would cause circular star trails. I did get 1 or 2 images which didn't trail and I could hear the mount motor reacting to signals being sent, although what they were I don't know.

[alcol620]

10 hours ago, groberts said:

OK first of all success, of a sort.  

No change to drivers and without using power, but instead I used the long USB 2.0 lead  provided to connect from the computer to the camera (instead of USB 3.0) + the short USB 2.0 lead from the camera to the EFW and the EFW connection worked!  I am not sure what this means, except if I had to use USB 2.0 instead of USB 3.0 I presume it would slow things down and reduce potential frame rates etc? For the record, the port I have been using all along is USB 3.0 and has always been OK in the past.  Any thoughts what this means + how I can still get USB 3.0 to work?

Notwithstanding, thanks for driver info, I would like to update the drivers but can't find v1.0.0.8 on the ZWO website which still shows v1.0.0.6 - can you provide directions please. 

 

Driver listed here https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/software/

[Gina]

That sort of trailing is usually caused by poor PA.