Observing or photography?

[Moonshed]

I fitted the Bahtinov Mask and plugged my Canon 1100D into my laptop and loaded  APT. I selected Capella, centralised it on screen, zoomed in x 10, got nice focus spikes and adjusted my focus and got it spot on. Unplugged the cable from the Canon that goes to the laptop and plugged in the Intervalometer. For some reason can't have both working at the same time. Removed the Mask, fitted the dew shield, carried out a two star alignment using just the Telrad as it is perfectly aligned with the tube. Finally ready, already had the dew heater strip switched on an hour beforehand, and selected as my target M42 and pressed GOTO, what a gadget! It looked perfectly  positioned through the Telrad but impossible to tell through the camera. I took a 10 second test shot and M42 appeared perfectly placed on the Canon screen. Set the Intervalometer for 30 x 90 second subs, already had the camera set at 800 asa, checked the first one came out okay and sat back in th chair. It was then, with around 50 mins to kill, I realised I was missing something. Okay, hopefully, when processed, my M42 will turn out alright, (I will post it when finished) but whatever happened to all the fun I used to have before deciding to take photos of the wonderful things in the night sky? Some nights I leave the camera indoors and spend the night just looking, but the temptation is still there. Do others have the same problem? I find I miss the old pre-camera days when life was simpler and I would come in after a night of observing full of wonderful memories of the things I had seen and such a feeling of joy and satisfaction. Now I just hope the pictures turn out okay, even then none of my friends and family take the slightest interest, apart from "That's nice". They have no idea of the effort and skill involved. I enjoy the challenge of getting a good photo same as everyone else, but now realise I get far more satisfaction from just looking. Do others agree? Do you have the same thoughts? Surely telescopes are principally for looking through? Yes, there is room for both, but what do you find you spend most time doing? I still spend most of my telescope time observing at the eyepiece.

[Marci]

That’s why we have 3x scopes... One for imaging, the other two for me n’ @ThinkingChimp to do visual whilst the imaging rig does it’s thang.

[Moonshed]

Thanks Marci, I knew that would come up as a solution, and it is a very good solution, for some. However, I can't afford more scopes and don't have the room for them anyway. You have just made me envious! 

[Danny83uk]

i feel your pain. Im also to lazy to setup my SW130 to view while the bigg'un takes the images. (Plus once you've viewed on a bigger scope it just seems Meh!) So heres what i tend to do now. Go out when ever i can. Slightly overcast, slight breeze , Moon up? Right im viewing tonight as the potential wobble on the scope or light from the moon means DSO will be poor quality. But if its clear, no breeze and slight or no moon. Image away my friend. This way ive found not only do i go out more but im getting a good variety.

[SW130p]

I like to observer, I find it relaxing just to gaze and marvel at the beauty of the night sky. I do whilst looking tempted to put the camera on and image what I'm looking at but can't be bothered with the processing.  

[mikeonnet]

I too understand exactly your thoughts Moonshed. After lugging all the gear outside with the wires, cameras, laptop, scope etc. to set up, getting it all focused and aligned with your chosen target, program how many subs and exposure lengths to take and then..... you can't do nothing else whilst it's busy taking the shots. I do have 2 scopes but only one mount (but just the thought of doing it all again and setting up the second one even if I had another mount would put me off as well as packing it all up at the end of the night).

I did have the little Celestron 127 Mak which was great as I could be observing within minutes but sold that unfortunalty but wish I still had it as like I say, in a way it seems like a wasted night when I can't actually observe anything whilst imaging and I'm still trying to get to grips with that. Last night for instance, I didn;t realise I still left the Bahtinov mask on until nearly an hour later when I went back outside and saw it on the end of my scope DUH! Please don't all laugh at once....

[Joel Shepherd]

When I have the luxury of too many clear nights -- a rare luxury to be sure -- I tend to observe as a break from photography. Observing is simpler, a lot less pressure, and it's just you and the stars and the telescope: very to the point. But the reality is that the camera pulls in objects that I will never catch a hint of otherwise under our light-polluted skies. It's difficult, a big time commitment, and often frustrating, but it provides another kind of connection with the universe. I prefer photography because of the challenge and the vistas that it opens up, and if I have a clear night that's where my efforts will go first. But I happily admit to enjoying the simplicity of setting up the scope and taking in some grey fuzzies ... getting that one-on-one connection with our galaxy. Sometimes I think the telescope prefers things that way too.

[alacant]

Hi. Until I saw this thread, I hadn't noticed I'd not looked through a telescope since around this time last year, the time I got PHD2 to work! Dunno. It's a dilemma. I suppose for me it'd be moon phase dependent. Clear skies whatever you choose.

[PeterCPC]

I find that I don't get enough clear nights to make that decision - it's imaging every chance I get.

Peter

[ronin]

The car always has a set of binoculars in it, so I set up the camera and set the intervalometer and press Go, then after the second or third I will lean against the car and look round with binoculars. Helps that the location for pointing camera at sky is the darker of the few I use, so things are a bit more apparent.

A lot of the time is simply spent by identifing the constellations again and if possible working through what is within each and visible in binoculars. Useful information to have at hand when people ask things. Thinking along the lines here of "M51 needs a scope to collect enough light but M36, M37 and M38 are visible in binoculars from a reasonably dark location." Another "exercise" is working out pointers across the sky - the Plough will point to Polaris, Arcturuc, Leo and Auriga. Cassiopeia points to Pegasus, Andomeda, Cephus, and Perseus. All useful bits of useless information.

Could take an additional scope but I keep returning to the camera and checking that all is going as it should be. Mind you walking into the tripod and mount is a potential hazard.

Another factor is how much equipment do I want to take. The bits for just a few images to stack adds up, throwing in a second complete setup means more stuff and more setup, then disassemble of both and packing away. Even with 1 set up it is pack, unpack, pack, unpack in a single night.

2 of the red light torches I have are bright, and shining those around tends to show pairs of eyes looking at me also.

 

[Moonshed]

6 hours ago, mikeonnet said:

I...I did have the little Celestron 127 Mak which was great as I could be observing within minutes but sold that unfortunalty but wish I still had it as like I say, in a way it seems like a wasted night when I can't actually observe anything whilst imaging and I'm still trying to get to grips with that. Last night for instance, I didn;t realise I still left the Bahtinov mask on until nearly an hour later when I went back outside and saw it on the end of my scope DUH! Please don't all laugh at once....

Definately not laughing but feel your pain! Just recently when setting up the Intervalometer I managed to set the sub exposure time to  1 hour 90 seconds instead of just 90 seconds. I hour later I went back out to check if it was all finished okay only to discover it was still on the first of 30 subs. It was now getting overcast, the end of what had been a beautiful clear night with very good seeing. That hurt for some  considerable time! It takes such a time and such a fuss to set everything up properly for a photograph and so many things can go wrong, it can be so very frustrating. However, I think it must be like playing golf (no, I don't) the one hole where you hit an eagle? is the one you remember and it wipes out all the pain and frustration of your normal rubbish game. I am waiting for that one good image. I started observing over 50 years ago, film astrophotography 25 years ago and with a Canon DSLR only a couple of months back. I took some images two nights ago that look great pre-processing, M42 and the Pleiades, I am hoping that M42 will be THE ONE. Below is a shot of M42 taken 20 years ago with a film camera on a single 20 minute exposure. It was the best I had taken. It is framed and hanging up in my Moonshed. I am so proud of it. Yes, the stars are heavily doctered in Photoshop, well,the mount (and scope) were made in1987 so the tracking was nothing like as good as it is today, the stars were tadpoles. I am proud of it anyway  even though by today's digital standards, and that era's film standards,  it is clearly rubbish. You have no idea how badly I want to produce a great M42 to hang also side it.

 

[Stu]

Moonshed, this is all very personal I guess, but I've always found that the appeal of astronomy is observing. Just the joy of actually seeing these things with your own eye and keeping the memories in your head is enough for me.

I have so little time available that if I tried imaging I would just never do anything.

My personal rule regarding AP is that if I can take it with, and process it on my phone then it's ok, otherwise it's a no no.

Here is my iPhone shot of M42 for comparison , and my favourite Jupiter with shadow transit.

Ultimately just make sure you do what you enjoy.

Stu

[Moonshed]

Hi Stu, I agree, we should just do what we enjoy and just looking through the scope at the wonders of the universe is enough to keep me happy, as it has done for the past 50+ years. I regard imaging as a bonus.

Cheers, Keith.

The Jupiter picture is great, was that taken with an iPhone??? What scope were you using?

[ollypenrice]

It has to be both!

Olly