LASER attack!

[Mak the Night]

 

 

[LukeSkywatcher]

Apparently the green lasers are worse then red ones. If the media are to be believed, the green ones are 100 times more visible/brighter than the red ones. I have one which i bought from the UK (an astro retailer) and its been so long since i used it.......i cant remember if its a green or red. I think its red. I also think its a 5Mw but i could be wrong. I used it a few times in my old house while outside to point out things to neighbours. I dont like most of my new neighbours so i dont invite them to my impromtu star parties. I also live a lot closer to Dublin airport now so even if i wanted to use it.......i wouldnt as there is a plane passing close to my house every 2 mins (yes i have counted).

[Physopto]

6 minutes ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

Apparently the green lasers are worse then red ones. If the media are to be believed, the green ones are 100 times more visible/brighter than the red ones. I have one which i bought from the UK (an astro retailer) and its been so long since i used it.......i cant remember if its a green or red. I think its red. I also think its a 5Mw but i could be wrong. I used it a few times in my old house while outside to point out things to neighbours. I dont like most of my new neighbours so i dont invite them to my impromtu star parties. I also live a lot closer to Dublin airport now so even if i wanted to use it.......i wouldnt as there is a plane passing close to my house every 2 mins (yes i have counted).

If it is 5mW then it is illegal to be used here in the UK. It would also be illegal for a retailer to sell  a laser of that power. They could be prosecuted!

The eye is more sensitive to green light than other wavelengths.

Derek

[Dave In Vermont]

Yes to the above. The human eye sees green better than other colours as it falls about dead-center in our visual range: 532nm. And the green lasers have a range of over 2 miles.

Be VERY careful with these things.

I was staying at a friend's home on the 16th floor of an apartment building in Boston. I happened to have my 'greenie' with me. I noticed a car slowly crawl up to a house across the way, and the windows rolled down and some idiots opened fire into the house through the windows. And I knew there were young children in that house. I looked around and spotted a police-car driving slowly a few blocks over - no doubt they'd heard the gunshots. I lit up street-signs in front of the police-car and led it down the streets. It followed my glowing trail. I led them to the car the shooters were in - lighting-up the metallic paint-job like an 'Alien-Invasion.' The cops radioed for back-up and surrounded the car and dragged the shooters out.

I would have enjoyed reading that police-report!

LOL!

Dave

[Physopto]

Well done but to be honest I am glad it is not so bad over here as yet,,,,,, AS YET!

Derek

[Astrobits]

1 hour ago, Physopto said:

If it is 5mW then it is illegal to be used here in the UK. It would also be illegal for a retailer to sell  a laser of that power. They could be prosecuted!

The eye is more sensitive to green light than other wavelengths.

Derek

I have looked for U.K. legislation and haven't found anything yet that outlaws the USE of laser pointers of any strength. There is a restriction on the SALE of laser pointers above class 2 to the general consumer. However if a laser is used inappropriately then other bits of the law are used such as assault etc.

Australia has outlawed all import and sale of lasers over 1mW. That legislation has failed in it's intent. See this article:

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/528566/the-worrying-failure-of-australias-ban-on-high-power-laser-pointers/

What is more alarming is that laser pointers are being incorrectly labelled to avoid such legislation.

I expect the same outcome if we get similar laws.

Nigel

 

 

 

[Darkstar_1]

3 hours ago, Davey-T said:

Unfortunately making something illegal doesn't stop people doing it, lol

Dave

Obviously not, but a law prohibiting the use of these in the defined area, would rule out any excuses people may make as to why they are using them. Also laser pointers are easy to spot by any passing police car or helicopter (however rare they may be!). Wouldn't be difficult to track down where it was originating and prosecute said idiots.

[Physopto]

I may have gotten the law wrong over this issue. But I am sure I have read it somewhere, that we are limited to 1mW or less.

Here is a quote from BBC News England:

"

High power laser pointers seized

Astronomers use high powered laster pens for star pointing High powered laser pointers have been seized by trading standards officers at a container port in Suffolk. Sixteen boxes headed for a premises in north London were found at Felixstowe Docks earlier this week. The seized pointers are illegal in the UK as their power rating of 5 milliWatt (mW) is more than the 1mW allowed. Imports of laser pens that astronomers use for star pointing, have also been targeted by officials after reports of them being used in a dangerous manner. Last month an Ipswich teenager received a 20-week prison sentence, suspended for 18 months, for using a green laser pointer to dazzle the pilot of a police helicopter. Britain's largest pilots union BALPA has warned people misusing these pointers that they are "playing Russian roulette" with the lives of hundreds of passengers. The organisation has suggested that some laser pens should be classified as weapons. Suffolk's portfolio holder for public protection, Joanna Spicer said: "These are not the laser pens or pointers you sometimes see in conferences or presentations. "These items are way more powerful than is legally allowed in this country. "We have heard in the past week alone what damage can be done to pilots and aircraft when these powerful instruments get into the wrong hands." " Also a quote from :http://www.laserpointersafety.com/rules-general/intllaws/intllaws.html#UK_Aviation_vehicle_and_assault " UK: Aviation, vehicle and assault laws The following information is about laser pen offences in the U.K. Air Navigation Order 2009 outlines two offences - directing or shining any light at any aircraft in flight so as to dazzle or distract the pilot of the aircraft, and recklessly or negligently acting in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person therein. The former offence could result in a fine up to £2,500, and the latter in a fine up to £5,000, and/or five years imprisonment. Regarding vehicles, the Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 22A(1)(a) states that causing danger to other road-users could result in a fine up to £5,000, and/or a maximum of seven years imprisonment. If such action results in a fatal accident, then consideration will be given to an offence of manslaughter. In cases of assault, the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 states that causing actual bodily harm or grievous bodily harm could result in a fine up to £5,000, and/or five years imprisonment. Source: Surrey police press release as reported in Redhill and Reigate Life, June 2011. See also this story about Surrey incidents. U.K.: FAQ from the Health and Safety Executive This FAQ page from the Health and Safety Executive gives some information about laser pointer guidance in the U.K. U.N./INTERNATIONAL: Prohibition on blinding laser weapons The 1995 Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons has been signed by 99 countries, including the U.S., as of Feb. 2011. It prohibits the use of lasers to cause permanent blindness. The full text of the protocol is: Article 1: It is prohibited to employ laser weapons specifically designed, as their sole combat function or as one of their combat functions, to cause permanent blindness to unenhanced vision, that is to the naked eye or to the eye with corrective eyesight devices. The High Contracting Parties shall not transfer such weapons to any State or non-State entity. Article 2: In the employment of laser systems, the High Contracting Parties shall take all feasible precautions to avoid the incidence of permanent blindness to unenhanced vision. Such precautions shall include training of their armed forces and other practical measures. Article 3: Blinding as an incidental or collateral effect of the legitimate military employment of laser systems, including laser systems used against optical equipment, is not covered by the prohibition of this Protocol. Article 4: For the purpose of this protocol "permanent blindness" means irreversible and uncorrectable loss of vision which is seriously disabling with no prospect of recovery. Serious disability is equivalent to visual acuity of less than 20/200 Snellen measured using both eyes." " Derek

[Alma]

Never make the mistake of thinking English law is joined up on issues like this.

[Dave In Vermont]

This just in on my news-feed: The Pope's plane, coming into Mexico City, was purposefully hit with a laser. No injuries or problems with the Italian airliner - landed fine. But they reported this as it was happening. I'll bet there's a 'special' place in the unglaciated-regions for someone who tries to zap the Pope and/or crash his plane.

Dave

[wuthton]

I assume the police are going to catch someone doing this very soon and their punishment is going to be severe, not just a few grand fine or a couple of years in prison. With the current media interest in this their name and picture is going to be emblazoned across the internet in-perpetuity, a life time sentence of shame.

[Stub Mandrel]

Summary of sentences to date:

http://www.laserpointersafety.com/sentences/sentences.html

 

Interesting, most offenders are in their early 20s. There are a few teenagers but many more in their 30s and 40s. So kids don't appear to be the problem as much as bored adults.

[Astrobits]

Both Derek and Neil have highlighted my point. The ownership of a laser pen/pointer is not an offence. However the use ( intentional or actual ) of it can be an offence just as with a brick or a knife.

The only limitation on power is in the supply ( sales, imports ) which is limited to class 1 and 2. The Australian report that I linked to highlights the fact that many pointers do not adhere to the label with regards to power output and therefore class. Of 40 pointers that were tested only one met the specified power output and safety as it's label and advertising claimed. I am aware of two other, completely independent, tests of laser pointers that come to the same results.

Nigel

[Linda]

Why not have a maximum allowed power for laser pens in general. People who need a more powerful laser could ask for a permit.

[MAN or ASTROMAN]

One dark Friday evening last year,some Idiot shone a Green Laser at our window.

Being dark,the window blinds were shut,but I immedietely recognised it for what it was,and warned my Wife,who was sitting next to the window ,tNOT to open the blinds to see what it was,or which P.I.T.A. (work it out for yourself) was responsible.

Fortunately,it seems to  have been a one off.

 

[parallaxerr]

For those who don't understand why a lone astronomer would use a laser.....

I use one so I don't have to bend & twist myself in to an awkward position to see through a finder scope on my frac, which only serves to aggravate an old back injury. I have a portable setup which means I have to align every time I get it out and the laser serves to speed this process up significantly.

Point scope in rough direction of alignment star, check skies around are clear of aircraft, laser on, aim at star, laser off. Alignment star is now almost central in FOV. Repeat a further two times. Alignment done in less than 3 minutes (and laser only on for a total of around 10-15s), all whilst standing bolt upright That's why I use one.

The PPrune thread is interesting in that there are mixed opinions on whether it is likely an injury could occur and there are those that believe a point was being made. However, above all else, if any one member of crew believes there is a risk to flight safety then it must be addressed. Only the crew flying that day could make the call.

Interestingly, I have been on the flight deck during a laser "attack" which amounted to nothing more than scattered green light flickering about on the overhead instrument panel. It was not an uncommon occurrence on the approach into Kabul. Very distracting though, especially during a critical flight phase, such that "going around" was proposed, which in itself may have lead to further vulnerability so was rejected. Ultimately it was a flare that left me with permanent (albeit slight) damage to my left eye, nowhere near as concentrated a light source as a laser so just goes to show.

I do feel there is an element of media hype around the subject, these incidents have been occurring for years and the CAA issue guidelines on dealing with them but I guess the proliferation of high powered lasers has lead to increased reports and media visibility. What's the answer? I don't know. You can legislate harsh penalties all day long but a lack of enforcement is the issue. A few may suffer and be made an example of but as others have stated, you won't clear the streets of these devices and there are those who do not wish to be educated.

As someone educated in and aware of flight safety, I'll continue to use my green laser and practice the highest level of safety I know how.

[saac]

On 18/02/2016 at 09:14, wuthton said:

I assume the police are going to catch someone doing this very soon and their punishment is going to be severe, not just a few grand fine or a couple of years in prison. With the current media interest in this their name and picture is going to be emblazoned across the internet in-perpetuity, a life time sentence of shame.

Already happened back in 2010.

Jim

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/farm-worker-jailed-for-shining-laser-pen-at-raf-tornado-1.58205

[laser_jock99]

On 16/02/2016 at 19:38, RichM63 said:

One thing that puzzled me, and perhaps one of you knowledgeable folk can help me out?

Just how powerful would a hand held laser pointer have to be to cause eye damage after passing through the cockpit plexi-glass of an aeroplane at altitude, and how long would this hand held laser need to remain on an 'open eye' to cause this damage?

Assuming that the plane was travelling at a few hundred miles an hour and the 'seeing' was as we all experience at the moment rubbish, wouldn't the hand held device have lost power before damage could occur over a distance of a few miles, and blink reflex have taken over?

I too deplore the idea of pointing lasers at any unsuspecting life form, and support law enforcement in their efforts to bring the idiots to justice, I also have sympathy for the Pilot and wish a speedy recovery from any injuries sustained, but is this possibly media hype yet again?

Rich

No eye damage at all. The beam would be quite large in diameter (therefore very, very low fluance) at typical plane altiitudes/distances. All a bit of storm in a tea cup if you ask me......