Just to the side of Orion

[alan potts]

Well never one to shy away from a difficult target I was out for 3 plus hours before I had no hair left to pull out. It was again a session with what is becoming infectious and extremely frustrating, The Horses head.

I think it is only right to report about ones failures as well as what I was setting my sights on at the outset. I really feel I was that close, a few inches I am sure would have done it. Now I can hear from 1800 miles away you all saying, well why didn't he use the 18 inch Dobsonian he has. A fair question and my only answer is I know there are site members looking for this target with instruments about the same size, though a 3M focal length is maybe not the best for this. I really feel my skies are as good as anyones unless we are talking about being halfway up a mountain in Namibia or the like. The Sumerian I believe will do this with ease from here and that in some respects is not a challenge, it also will serve to drive others that do not have a scope this big to try the target.

 

I addressed the focal length issues by using the reducer which would not reach focus with the Moonlite crayford and the TeleVue diagonal so then it was find where I had put the Meade visual back time. I was hoping the change in exit pupil (3.81mm)would help with the meter reduction in F/L. While I was doing this the two cats that seem to use my house as a resturant were displaying their disquite at not having anything to eat, didn't seem too impressed with my "go catch a mouse" repost either. Once this was set up and the sky was darkening all the time I could see there was a vignette with the 1.25 inch Astronomik's H beta filter and the 24mm Panoptic making me wish I had bought the 2 inch version, even though it was well over 170 pounds, still at double the price I can't be accused of penny pinching.

 

I also fitted up the 41mm with my 2 inch Astronmik's UHC filter to see if that would help but from the longer focal length of 3048mm, exit pupil here being a larger 4.12 though with a filter not tailored for the job in hand. This was suggested by Yong up in Gothenburg I believe and I thought it well worth a try. Now whilst I was sure I was in the correct place for this nebula I still find not know it's orientation was not helping, I don't know if it is doing: dressage, the Grand National or a spot of show jumping, in fact it was hiding in the corner wearing black, which blends nicely with the surrounds.

Switching back and forth between these set-ups was not like changing eyepiece and was somewhat time consuming so only got done twice, I also tried filters on and off a few times. Though you could almost state that the powers of X80 and X74 are much the same I was feeling that the 41mm with UHC filter was better, this could well be the larger exit pupil but I do not know if 0.3 is that significant, I know I was not enjoying the slight vignette I get with the smaller filter that appears to be on the fault of the filter on the 24mm Panoptic, this being at the limit of 1.25 inch eyepiece field stops.

I was half sure I saw something on about 200 occasions the target seems to be a devil for playing tricks with the eyes, I tried all sorts, different eye, deep breathing and was wondering where I could get a face mask and cylinder of oxygen from and other aids best not mentioned. The sky was excellent with what I really feel was top draw transparency, it was not good enough to see the Pup naked eye but I think you know what I mean, even the Dog star was fairly stable, maybe where the horse was hiding.

This is proving to be a very hard object even with a fair size 12 inch scope though maybe not the best optical configuration. I am sure I read this has been done with an 80mm scope, I can only imagine it was from the top of Everest on a very clear night and no one had a head torch on. Worth also pointing out that Orion is at least 10 degrees higher in my sky than any point in the UK, something that can only help me and hinder other site members. I am not giving up with this scope for reasons already stated but I feel tonight it is going to have to be the 18 inch and oxygen bottle, just to see if it is really there.

The night was not a total loss, it never is anyway, at the end I spilt Sirius, the first time I can remember doing so with this scope.

Good luck and clear skies,

Alan

[estwing]

another near miss Alan...keep at it as it will soon be gone for another year ...clear skies!

[Piero]

Nice reading Alan

I am sorry you did not spot it. Said this, you have both the skills and the tools, so I believe it is just a matter of patience and attempts .  Soon or later, I am sure you will get a clear, moonless, dry and cold night, and spot this very challenging target. 

[YKSE]

Alan, you're now chasing Gerry about number of times for horse-hunting I'd think it'll be out for you in due time as you keep on it.

From Gerry and others observations, I'd think EPs closer to 5mm exit pupil might be more optimal, which means 32mm plossl with f6.3 reducer in your Meade, or 24mm Pan in Sumerian. Sumerican will surely give you bigger image of HH, but the nights you can see it, you should be able to see in both scopes.

[alan potts]

Yong,

 

My thinking when I statred out last year on this was the 24mm in the Sumerian was the correct mix either with or without the Paracorr, this is whay I bought the smaller size 1.25 and it was also much cheaper. Lets face it close on 200 quid for the 2 inch is a bit steep for a filter that is only useful on a few targets. I am trying the 12 inch mainly because weather of late and to give some hope to others, not that I am scoring very high in that area.

I will just have to keep trying.

[swamp thing]

1 hour ago, YKSE said:

Sumerican will surely give you bigger image of HH, but the nights you can see it, you should be able to see in both scopes.

^^^ This

If you can't see it either the transparency is not good that night or the site is not dark enough. I cannot believe it is the latter as where I saw it from was an okay site but nowhere near as good as mid wales or somewhere like that. That leaves transparency, could you see M33 naked eye? Did you pick out the flame nebula easily enough? Both these are good indicators of transparency.

The extra image scale your 18" can supply at a bigger exit pupil will definitely make it easier. I would use this scope first, once you know exactly where it is and the orientation of it, then, .try with the 12".

Good luck  

[alan potts]

Steve,

Didn't look at the flame even though it is only a short distance away, I was so focused with the job in hand, I could see M33 and something that may be more difficult in England M41 below Sirius. It was a very clear night which was why I was a bit disappointed.

[swamp thing]

If M33 was naked eye it sounds like conditions were good enough?? 

 

[YKSE]

Someone (to be left nameless) mentioned that easily seen Flame and NGC 2023 without filter is a good indication for seeing HH. and That,  is even harder conditions than seeing M33 naket eye, in my experiences.

[John]

Good report Alan, despite the result.

Well done on getting "the Pup" with your big Meade, I know you have been tryig to nail that target with the scope for some time.

I've more or less given up on the HH from home and cirumstances mean that I can't travel to observe at present. I've seen some fine views of Orion this winter but not the Flame or anything in the vicinity so the HH is "no go" from here I reckon.

Lots of other fine targets in the sky though

 

 

[Piero]

It seems there is a naughty horse in the sky who enjoys hiding!

[jetstream]

Great report Alan.

Another factor that may affect the ability to see the HH is the TFOV, too small and the notch does not show against (in) IC434 well and too big can let bright stars wash things out. I noticed in both my reflectors that 1 deg TFOV seems optimum-the 25mm TV & VX10 and the 21E and the 15". The TFOV you are using last night is about ( I guess) .8mm with the reducer and .86mm with the 41 Pan unreduced.

I think this may be a reason that the 18mm BCO isn't performing for me on this target.

I would bet that your dob will show it with the 21E/UHC. The sharp edge of IC434 will also stand out well, starting from Alnitak down past B33 and takes on a "funnel shape" to my eyes.

Congratulations for Sirius Alan.

[Size9Hex]

Thanks for taking the time to write that up. Really interesting and informative to hear of all the different approaches and angles you tried. Best of luck with it - you'll no doubt crack it sooner or later, and anything hard fought is always more rewarding when you finally get it. Got job on Sirius too. My own (limited) experience is that the pup is just as fictitious as the horse head...

[alan potts]

Thank for all the encouragement. I am going to keep bashing away as I don't really want to buy the larger filter due to the cost. Not everyone can afford the exact equipment for this target and I know in a way I am trying to do just that, but I feel I am close enough to nail it. I am sure the larger scope will do this with the 24mm and the 1.25 inch H beta.

The one thing I do question though is darkness, it did look very good indeed in that direction was there some or enough LP from the town. Orion is in my, give or take South East sky, the direction of the town 5 miles away. Now I have been asked could I see M33, I could, but this is very high indeed just North of West, where it is very dark and there is nothing for 10's of miles. This could be the reason.

I will try tonight if it is clear.

[swamp thing]

How big is the town Alan?
It doesn't need many streetlights to create some sky glow. Objects like the HH do not like sky glow and become shy and disappear from view very quickly indeed. 
5 miles from a town is not far. If the town is sizeable or has badly directed or managed lights your site will suffer from LP. Some small towns give out appalling LP for their small size.