Can you use a HEQ-5 without autoguider ?

[Dinosour23]

Hey ! I am sure something like this has been asked before but let me specify my situation

I currently have a William Optics Megrez 90 doublet which is really nice, f/5.8.

I kinda gave up on it visually speaking... It is just not large enough to look through from the suburbs. I always find the binoculars "similar" when talking about DSO's.

I thought I'd give this scope a new productive life on a HEQ-5, first reason is to have GOTO controls and second reason to capture some photographs.

I actually just thought about it today when someone I know showed interest in selling his used HEQ-5 so basically this thread is finding an excuse to buy it and not be dragged down the money pit AP is, if it's possible.

I have no intentions sending any pictures to any magazine for publications nor I have the time to edit a thousand subs, those who produce hubble like pictures on this forum are already too good to compete with... 

That means no guiding, no 50 car batteries,no dew heaters, no CCD chips. 

I will have the 90mm apo, a cheap 450D, a ring for the focuser, the HEQ-5 and my laptop AT BEST if I decide to buy the mount.

Now, what can be done photography wise on this setup ? Is it worthwhile ? Will it provide me with a "semi visual" ability to see nice results ON FIELD, on the camera screen, before editing ? 

What is the maximum exposure that I can do with a 90mm loaded HEQ-5 with the goto tracker ?

And the most important question... Short subs in mind...No guiding in mind...  Am I better off not investing that much cash in a HEQ-5 and instead go for an EQ-3 or something cheaper ? 

Thanks for any tips, even if you think this is all not worthwhile given the price of the HEQ-5 and my demands that's also an acceptable answer, feel free to post  It's just a pretty nice price on the used HEQ-5 hence my question...

[RobertI]

I'm not am expert at astrophotography but I do mostly Video Astronomy (see separate forum) using unguided exposures and a very small chip Lodestar camera. The unguided exposures I can manage on my Celestron CG5 mount without trailing are as follows (very roughly):

- up to 1 minute on scopes of focal length around 400mm

- up to 30 seconds on scopes focal length around 800mm

- up to 10 seconds on scopes focal length around 1300mm

This is achieved with polar alignment using the accurately centred polar scope.

The HEQ5 is a better mount so you could achieve better. The larger chip of your 450D mmight also mean you can do longer but not sure about that one.

You might want to consider Video Astronomy (aka Electronically Assisted Astronomy/Observing) - you can probably achieve good 'near real time' stacked & processed images with the 450D and some real time stacking software like Astrotoaster which also removes exposures with trailing - no post processing involved, you just view the results on the night. You can also get good results with cheap webcams. If you are interested ask some questions on the Video Forum.

HTH

Rob

[Starlight 1]

 The HEQ5 is geting old as my one is 5 years and still going, it will allways be better then a EQ3.

[MattJenko]

You can get some decent images without guiding, but you will be limited to the brighter DSOs and it will involve processing quite a lot of subs to get good results I would suggest. The HEQ5 is about as good as it will get for entry level unguided imaging I reckon. I think that the benefits of guiding so far outweigh not guiding, that every effort should be made to do it. It can be achieved with minimal extra outlay, as all you will need is a second hand QHY5 and an adaptor for your finderscope, so in reality, around half the cost of the 450d. The results will be marked, as you will not need as many exposures, as you can simply take longer ones.

[dph1nm]

It depends on the HEQ5 I think. Mine has periodic error around 30" peak-to-peak, although smooth it is not! I have never autoguided. I can do 30sec subs at ~1" per pixel (Canon 1000D+1200mm FL). At 600mm FL on the same camera I can do 60sec subs. You loose maybe 10-15% - any longer exposures and you start to loose far too many for my liking (BTW I borrowed an EQ6 recently and managed to double the unguided exposures at 600mm).

You won't seen 'nice results' on the camera back - you have to stack images for that. Even people who autoguide need to stack - they just don't need to stack as many! Even so, 60sec subs should get you most Messier objects, although you are probably talking a 30-60 subs, or more.

NIgelM

[Dinosour23]

Thanks very much for the great responses !

The HeQ I am after is modded for belts and grease so may be good for GOTO tracker only (I assume that by not having a guidance system I am relying on the GOto synscan computer and polar centring and nothing else correct ?)

Can I see examples please of a non guided shot maybe 30x30s ?

Could you put a link ?

[Starlight 1]

 My  Heq5 is still with gears and as it come from new, guiding is the best way to go as it will give you a free hand to do subs from 10s to 30 mins . by just useing a guiding cam ? I use one with a ST4 port and it plug into the mount. so use the laptop to run PHD  ect. Here a post , poor little mount !!!!! .http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/256891-no-setup-in-30-mph-wind-in-the-city/

[nmoushon]

You will have no problem taking images unguided with the HEQ5. I did that with my ED80 for 2 years and did some pretty decent imaging. Could've gotten better if I had stuck with imaging. I've switched over to visual for a while because my life is too crazy atm for imaging. Anyways...all i ever did was a quick 5min PA and then used standard GOTO tracking and was able to achieve 2min subs consistently. Though I was imaging at 380mm FL (native 500mm with .76x reducer). If I was imaging at the native 500mm I think I was limited to 90sec subs. So I do suggest you image with a reducer as it will give you longer exposure possibilities. Still good for just a basic PA. Now if I bothered doing a really good PA and did drift align and lets of testing to get PA as perfect as I could I think I could've gotten 3-4min subs...possibly. Maybe not consistent because of the mounts PE but I never got around to that so who knows. 

Here is an example of what I did with my HEW+ED80 unguided: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/177259-8hrs-m31-m42/  You can read the post for the details. The processing could be much better as I never got really good at it but its an example of what you can achieve and then fine tune with experience and practice.

As for your equipment. If you don't want to guide or use a CCD then there is no need for a laptop. Unless you want to use some star chart programs like stellarium. You can run the mount and DSLR through a laptop if you are interested but again its not needed. I would also suggest a CLS LP filter for the DSLR. I used one and it helped A LOT! You will also want a remote timer for the DSLR. You will want to get at least a dew heater strip even if your scope has a built int dew shield. Imaging in the cold winter nights....it will be much needed. Unless you are running power to the mount from your home I would suggest a portable battery tank. This will provide a power source for the mount and dew heater and not have to worry about running an extension cord. These will be able to run your minimal setup for several nights without recharging. Also it will allow you to take your setup to dark sites.....which once you get into AP you will want to do.

[Skipper Billy]

This image is just 7 lights of 5 mins  - dslr - heq5 - unguided - one of my first efforts.

No calibration frames used. Just processed in PhotoShop.

It wont win any prizes or be hailed as a masterpiece but it has brought me a lot of pleasure.

[dph1nm]

NGC6960 - this is 17x60sec with a 4inch scope at 660mm FL on an HEQ5 unguided:

NigelM

[carastro]

You can certainly do unguided images with an HEQ5, you'd get better results with guiding as you'll be able to image for longer.  But you'll get reasonable results on the bright targets.

Carole 

[Dinosour23]

Ahhh beautiful images if you ask me !! Thanks for postings fellas ! 

Thank you carol and moushon !  That is good info