is the veil possible with an UNModded dslr

[beamer3.6m]

As the title says is the veil a possible imaging target with an UNMODDED dslr.

I have a lp filter but nothing else so will I be wasting my time on this.

Also, having never gone for the veil before (I will be using the 130pds and 1100d) is there a section which is recommended - east/west etc.

What is recommended for this subject in terms of iso/exposures. Ive been getting good 10 min subs from my guiding to date.

Thanks guys

[wxsatuser]

You can image anything with an unmodded dslr.

Lots of data helps but that goes for most objects.

If you can do 10 minutes you should be ok.

[MarsG76]

Your unmodded dslr will still see halpha emission... the difference between modded and unmodded is the amount of halpha a sensor "sees", unmodded about 15-20% (80% cut by filter) where as a modded camera will see 80-90% of the photos reaching your mirror/lens.

In your situation you only will need longer and/or more subs. 10 minute subs at ISO1600 should do the trick.

[ollypenrice]

There is blue reflection nebulosity aplenty in this target so that will work fine. There is also plenty of broadband red so, again, no problem. The big Ha advantage lies really in catching the very faint stuff but the two main arcs should be good. I can see them clearly in my RGB data.

Olly

[IanL]

Sure is, here is one I prepared earlier.

[ChrisLX200]

This was captured quite a few years ago now using an un-modified Canon 350D, shows there is plenty in there you can get!

ChrisH

[fwm891]

Yes: Shot with an unmodified Nikon DSLR earlier this year:

[beamer3.6m]

Thanks guys.

Will give it a go.

Not an easy target for me at least. From my perspective This is a step up in the world of dso imaging.

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Is the blue in the Veil reflection nebulosity or OIII? Either way, a modded camera will pick up the blue just as well, it's just the Ha signal that will be lower.

[ollypenrice]

Thanks guys.

Will give it a go.

Not an easy target for me at least. From my perspective This is a step up in the world of dso imaging.

Do a big dither between subs, even if you have to do it manually. 12 pixels or so. It will hugely reduce colour noise in the background sky.

When it comes to processing, if you have Photoshop go to Selective Colour, Reds, and move the top slider to the left to lower the cyans in red. It will greatly enhance the Ha.

Olly

[ollypenrice]

Is the blue in the Veil reflection nebulosity or OIII? Either way, a modded camera will pick up the blue just as well, it's just the Ha signal that will be lower.

Good question. I've always thought some of it was reflection. It tends to lie around the outside of the arcs while the Ha lies on the inside. Since the arcs are driven by a shockwave emanating from the inside I thought that, perhaps, the outer blues were created by light scattered from an accumulated outer shell of dust. Homework time!

Olly

[beamer3.6m]

Thanks Olly. Top tips

[beamer3.6m]

Another question.

How do I set up dithering and what settings.

I use EQMOD / BYEOS / PHD2 / ASTROTORTILLA

I am yet again confused.

[RikM]

 I had a good discussion about colour balance in the veil a while ago with a chap at my astrosociety. He had some very nice data to show that there is a good dose of blue reflection stuff on top of the blue-green of the Oiii.

[wxsatuser]

Is the blue in the Veil reflection nebulosity or OIII? Either way, a modded camera will pick up the blue just as well, it's just the Ha signal that will be lower.

Blue could be Rayleigh scattering off fine particles.

Doubly-ionized oxygen, called O III is blue/green.

[Xiga]

I too would like to know how to do a large scale dither

[Xiga]

Also, how do you DSLR imagers go about framing faint objects such as these? What's the process for making sure you've got it exactly where it should be before beginning your run of long exposures?

[IanL]

You set up dithering in the capture program, so in BYE/BYN or APT for example. Somewhere in the guiding settings there will be a tick box to turn on dithering, just Google your capture program name plus dithering and RTFM. There will be a setting to set the dither distance in pixels. The maximum is usually too small, perhaps 5 or 10 pixels. In PHD2 under advanced settings / global there is a dither scale option. Set you dither distance to 5 pixels in the capture program, the PHD2 dither scale to 3.0 and you will get a dither of 3 x 5 = 15 pixels, which is more like it. The other important setting in the capture program is the settle time, which is how long to wait for guiding to stabilize after a dither before the next exposure. You will need to experiment.

[IanL]

Also, how do you DSLR imagers go about framing faint objects such as these? What's the process for making sure you've got it exactly where it should be before beginning your run of long exposures?

Using a plate solver like Astrotortilla makes it easy to center any object. Takes a bit of setting up but once done it is like magic, just pick your target and let the software find it. Framing is done the hard way - take a test exposure and figure out which way to rotate the camera to fit the target in the frame.

You can use software to plan, e.g. Stellarium has a camera plugin that allows you to set up you kit and rotate the framing overlay to test fit. You can use my imaging toolbox to do the same thing on an all-day survey. I added the rotation feature to see what would fit my camera frame. Trouble is I usually get the angle wrong in practice so test expoaures are always recommended.

[Xiga]

Really good info Proto Star, cheers!

As you can tell, I'm very new to all of this, actually I'm hoping to have my very 1st go at imaging (pc control, eqmod, guiding, basically the lot!) in a couple of weeks when my local astro society starts it's nights again.

I will be using a small Samsung N220 netbook for image capture and guiding. It's slow as hell but should get the job done.

Can you give a bit more detail please on the whole Plate Solving thing? I'm only used to the old method of doing star alignments. Assuming i have all the software setup ok (was thinking of using Cartes du Ciel due to it's low system requirements) what's the process one needs to go through to plate solve?

Sorry for the noob questions btw

[michael8554]

Also, how do you DSLR imagers go about framing faint objects such as these? What's the process for making sure you've got it exactly where it should be before beginning your run of long exposures?

Download Platesolve 2 and the UCA3 star calalogue from the Planewave Instruments site, it's about 500MB

Get to where you think the DSO is, take a 30sec exposure and then Platesolve 2 it -  it only needs the stars, not the DSO.

It will give you the RA and Dec of the centre of your image in about 10secs if you're close.

Then slew the few arcmins to centre the DSO.

Astrotortilla will automatically do the whole job including the slewing, but not sure if it needs a computer faster than your netbook, and it's a huge download.

Michael

[IanL]

Astrotortilla is available here:

http://sourceforge.net/p/astrotortilla/home/Home/

Best tutorial for setting it up is here:

http://lightvortexastronomy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/tutorial-imaging-setting-up-and-using.html

The software itself is quite small, but the index files can be very large depending on your setup.  It is pretty much fire and forget once you have it up and running, but it can take a while to get it configured and working.  The best tip I can give you is to take a few jpeg exposures with durations of 10s to 60s whilst pointing your scope at a known target.  The next day connect all your software to the EQMOD simulator (or the mount if you have space indoors).  Slew to the same target using EQMOD and then you can use the 'file dialog camera' to load one of your previously saved images in Astrotortilla.

The software will behave as if it is talking to the real camera/mount and try to solve the image, etc.  That way you can fine tune the settings until you get a consistent and fast solve, without wasting half your imaging time.

[wuthton]

Really good info Proto Star, cheers!

As you can tell, I'm very new to all of this, actually I'm hoping to have my very 1st go at imaging (pc control, eqmod, guiding, basically the lot!) in a couple of weeks when my local astro society starts it's nights again.

I will be using a small Samsung N220 netbook for image capture and guiding. It's slow as hell but should get the job done.

Can you give a bit more detail please on the whole Plate Solving thing? I'm only used to the old method of doing star alignments. Assuming i have all the software setup ok (was thinking of using Cartes du Ciel due to it's low system requirements) what's the process one needs to go through to plate solve?

Sorry for the noob questions btw

If you haven't tried guiding yet then I'd forget about dithering and plate solving for now and concentrate on getting everything working before adding complications.

Most use either Astrotortilla with a capture program or Sequence Generator Pro which is (nearly) an all in one solution for plate solving. I like SGP (a lot).