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Regretting Purchase of new telescope


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Hi so I've been into astronomy for a few months, found tons and tons of things with my trusty 10x50 binoculars on a tri-pod, and always enjoyed it.

I 'took the plunge' and got a 10" Dob, and it's the equivalent of the XT10 but a slightly better and more improved brand/version.

To be honest, I hate it. I don't know if its ME or the SCOPE or what. 

1) Headaches. I get a MASSIVE headache every time I look thru the eyepiece. Doesn't matter if I'm using the 30mm EP or the 9mm EP. Instant huge headache. I read I'm supposed to keep both eyes open, can't see anything doing that. I try and block the left eye with my hand, and I just end up squinting more. I'm obviously squinting, and I can't see anything unless I squint, no way around it.

2) Movement. I ordered a Telrad to go with it so maybe this will help, but this thing is miserable to use. It's a RACI, and I can't find DSO's I've looked at 100 times in binoculars thru the finder scope. If by some miracle I do find it accidentally, it's nowhere to be seen in the eyepiece. I aligned the eyepiece perfectly with the finder scope, yet every time I align it and move the scope, the finder scope falls back out of alignment. Every single time. This is miserable, and I'm better off using the 30mm FOV EP (the headache machine) to find simple things like Jupiter.

Movement continued: Say after 20 minutes I finally align up with Jupiter, I have to squint so insanely much that I can barely see the stripes, and it flies out of the field of view if I breathe too hard on the scope.

3) Blurryness. I tried looking at the Orion nebular with my 30 mm and 9 mm EP's, and to be honest I am 100x more impressed from my binoculars. I could barely see the Trapezium in the 9mm EP and all 4 stars were extremely blurry, no matter how much I focused.

I was out there for an hour (2nd time using it) and in that entire time I was able to find M42 and Jupiter, barely, and wasn't impressed by either.

Is it the scope or is it me? Should I stick with binoculars? Rough night, obviously.  

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Hey.

Sad to hear that. But dont give up yet, im sure we'll find the root of evil in all the problems :)

In a 10 inch you should see the world more than with binoculars - however if its not colimated it could be blurry and you dont see a thing.

You say you have to squint, this could very well indicate that youre eye is trying to get focus on a nonfocused image? (And tht can give massive headaches)

Did you get the scope from a dealer? If yes, ask him if he colimated or could lend you a colimation device. (Google colimate dobsionian telescope)

After checking colimation i would next time just try and get smth into field of view like the moon, to make sure image is crisp and focus is ok before trying to get to DSO's

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Thanks for responding. I'm semi-OCD and made sure it was collimated after I brought it outside. Also let the fan run for 20 minutes though it's the same temperature outside. The 'only' thing I think that might have been a problem is it is SUPER windy, I'm not sure how this affects telescope viewing.

I'll try the moon tomorrow night. Set-up too late tonight.

Could wind have been causing this many problems, or at least adding to them? 

I did some reading and apparently finder scopes just don't stay aligned, so I guess I can live with that. The annoying thing was when I use the 30mm and find Jupiter, switch to the 9mm, and Jupiter is NOWHERE to be found, that got frustrating quickly. 

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With dob's do you want them to be 'easy' to move or require a bit of force? I'm not sure what the 'optimal' balancing levels are here. It seems that EASY is nice to move quickly around the sky but really annoying when star hopping, and HARD (to move) is just HARD, but things stay in the field better. 

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Hi. Just some quick thoughts and a lot of sympathy!

1) after some years of struggling I have two solutions for the single eye squinting issue.

The first is an eyepatch bought from a pharmacy. It cost £2 in the UK, is black with green lining, with a black elastic tape to encircle your head and hold it in position. Wearing it allows you to leave the eye open and relax your squinting. Elsewhere on astronomy forums I have read that consciously keeping one eye closed changes the focus and acuity of the open eye. Just be prepared for onlookers to think you are playing pirates.

The second is binoviewers. I bought the inexpensive but excellent WIlliams Optics BVs which came with two 20mm Eyepieces and a nose Barlow giving 1.6x magnification gain. I use them with my 12" Flextube Dob (Sky-Watcher) which has the option of a second position for the truss rods to reduce the primary mirror to focuser distance by about 4" so that the BVs can be used directly without the Barlow. Using two eyes allows the brain to do its natural job of merging the two images and reducing the effect of any 'floaters' and minor defects of your individual eyes (I have good eyesight but ageing eyes). If your Dob allows you to vary the primary mirror to focuser distance this solution is easy, if not it can be a struggle to achieve focus, even with the Barlow.

2) I use a similar device to a Telrad (actually a Rigel QuikFinder which has a much smaller footprint) but only for the first part of positioning the Dob. A Telrad may be 'RACI' but it doesn't provide any magnification nor extra light gathering beyond that of your naked eyes. So after this approximate first alignment I then use a 9x50 RACI finderscope to help locate the object more precisely. This would be a close approximation to the view you obtain in your 10x50 binoculars. Then I look in my eyepiece. Assuming your Dob focal length is about 1200mm, then even your 30mm EP is providing a magnification of 40x and a field of view of between 0.5 and 1 degree so the step from the Telrad is just too large a jump.

3) I assume that your telescope and eyepieces are reasonable good quality and the scope acceptably in collimation, then you must allow it plenty of time to reach thermal equilibrium (for my 12" Dob I would allow about an hour before I start observing 'seriously'). If all that applies then what you are aware of is probably the limitations of observing quality of the atmosphere due to the 'seeing' (reduced due to turbulence) and 'transparency' due to veiling effects of moisture.

But overall, I sympathise with everything you've remarked about - your new scope should offer you an improvement on the observations you have been making with your binoculars and shouldn't cause you headaches! Unfortunately the learning curve we all tackle when buying and using astronomical equipment is steep and frustrating, and our expectations are too often biased by the wonderful astrophographs which expert astronomers and the Hubble Space Telescope provide. But don't be down hearted - keep at it and slowly but slowly you'll enjoy it more as you educate your eye/brain combination to see more detail through the variations of the atmosphere and the imperfections of your equipment!

Good luck and clear skies!

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Thanks for the thoughtful post. I am guilty in that I gave my scope no time to adjust once bringing it outside. The only thing is the temperature outside is the same as indoors, so I wasn't sure if it was as big of an issue.

Those bino viewers look awesome, but I'll have to wait for a bit since I'm about about $900 already! :)

It's a good brand/model of scope, I did a lot of homework on it. 

I'll go... buy a eyepatch I guess. I'll try again tomorrow. 

Also I wanted to know, how important is WIND in observing? Will it totally screw up a session? It was super windy tonight. 

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A Telrad should help a lot with finding the desired object. 

High magnification eyepieces can be an issue in Dobsonian scopes because of the narrow field of view.  This is one of the reasons that ultra wide angle eyepieces are so popular with Dobsonian users.

Whilst I too love binoviewers, they do have a number of downsides.

  • Some people just don't get on with them
  • They require a lot of back focus
  • They are heavy (may cause issues with scope balance)
  • Your eyepiece budget will need to double!

I hope this all helps.

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Btw: Have you tried the other eye?

Sometimes seeing with one eye works better with one than the other. But i guess you already tried that?

As a chronic right hander, I did not even think about trying my left eye. Might help, I'll try that tomorrow as well. 

A Telrad should help a lot with finding the desired object. 

High magnification eyepieces can be an issue in Dobsonian scopes because of the narrow field of view.  This is one of the reasons that ultra wide angle eyepieces are so popular with Dobsonian users.

Whilst I too love binoviewers, they do have a number of downsides.

  • Some people just don't get on with them
  • They require a lot of back focus
  • They are heavy (may cause issues with scope balance)
  • Your eyepiece budget will need to double!

I hope this all helps.

I suppose they make ultra wide angle eyepieces in low small diameters like ~7/9mm? I haven't looked into this yet. 

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Also I wanted to know, how important is WIND in observing? Will it totally screw up a session? It was super windy tonight.

Absolutely important - that's what causes the 'bad seeing' and it's not just the wind at ground level which you are aware of but also the wind (Jet Stream) at high altitude. When you observe for a long time you are training your eye/brain to watch for the moments of stillness in the atmosphere and to remember the detail in those moments. There are arguments that the larger the aperture of your scope, the more variability you are including in the view and some people use aperture masks (in your case a 10" diameter circle of card with a three or four inch hole cut in one quadrant). This works well with bright objects like the Moon and Jupiter in reducing the light, avoiding diffraction spikes from the secondary mirror holder, and reducing the effect of atmospheric turbulence a little.
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i never go out when its windy as wind shakes the telescope and causes vibrations,as a result,you will be unable to critical focus on any object.

I am actually puzzled with couple of things you mentioned.

1.You said that your finder fells out of alignment? that doesnt sound right.This should not happen.Are you sure you have done everything correct?

2.Scope movement requires force? Dobsonians should move very smooth and a gentle "nudge" should be sufficient to get the scope moving,no actual force is required.This doesnt sound right either.

And i dont really understand the issue that once you look through eye piece you get immediate head aches,but this could be personal so no comment on this.

What is the brand of the telescope you got and what eye pieces you have used so far?

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As a chronic right hander, I did not even think about trying my left eye.

I am also 'right-eyed' although my left eye measures slightly better than my right in particular with no astigmatism (my opthalmologist advises 0.25 dioptres of cylindrical correction for astigmatism in my right eye). Nevertheless it's still my right eye that moves towards the eyepiece.
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i never go out when its windy as wind shakes the telescope and causes vibrations,as a result,you will be unable to critical focus on any object.

I am actually puzzled with couple of things you mentioned.

1.You said that your finder fells out of alignment? that doesnt sound right.This should not happen.Are you sure you have done everything correct?

2.Scope movement requires force? Dobsonians should move very smooth and a gentle "nudge" should be sufficient to get the scope moving,no actual force is required.This doesnt sound right either.

And i dont really understand the issue that once you look through eye piece you get immediate head aches,but this could be personal so no comment on this.

What is the brand of the telescope you got and what eye pieces you have used so far?

The brand is Apertura AD10 from Optics Mart with 1250 focal ratio. Used 9mm and 30mm eyepieces.

1. The finder comes out of alignment literally every time I turn the focus knobs for the eyepiece. I'm 99% I did everything right. I installed it in the mounting bracket, found something in daylight with the wide angle eyepiece, and adjusted the thumb screws to the finder. Just moving the scope causes it to come out of alignment by at least half a degree, if not more. I also had issues whenever I would take out the 30mm eyepiece and use the 9mm as I would have to track the object down again. I figured this is some kind of balance problem and I need to tighten/loosen something.

2. Maybe force was the wrong word. It moves easily, I just feel maybe too easily. I guess this is more of an experience factor.

3. I got a MASSIVE headache from using both eyepieces. I'm very, very prone to headaches though, and have been all my life. I did notice I was squinting very tightly however, and I also wear contact lenses. Do I need to take them out when I'm using it?

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As a chronic right hander, I did not even think about trying my left eye. Might help, I'll try that tomorrow as well. 

I'm right handed, but have always been left-eyed.  Trying to view with the right messes with my head!

Both eyes just as good, it's just that for some reason my left is dominant...

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Finder cant get out of alignment by you just using focuser.There is deffo something wrong there.

And you dont need glasses or contact lenses when using telescope.

i would personally strongly suggest to find a local astro club and pop over there when they have they gathering and get some advise from there.See how they operate telescope and what they do to align finder,how to find objects and so on.This will help you more.It is sometimes difficult to make out the issue by typing or reading someones posts.

Hope you get all the issues sorted.

Clear skies.

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Out of interest, are you standing or sitting at the scope? Is your head at the right level? I am thinking that if you are having to stoop in an uncomfortable position it could be triggering the headaches?

An adjustable height chair made a big difference to my observing.

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If you wear contacts then leave them in while observing. The last thing you want to do is be removing them while observing, you wouldn't be able to see correctly through the telrad / starmaps etc.

If you wore glasses then you could slip them up into your forehead when looking through the EP.

I've had a number finders over the years. The Telrad (in my opinion) was by far the best. Once aligned to the scope, I don't ever recall having to adjust it - unless it got a knock or I removed it.

Can you take some pictures of the Telrad in place just in case we can spot something not quite right.

The eye patch is a great idea, you look a bit of a muppet but who cares eh?

Cheers

Ant

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Squinting might be causing the problem with focus as well, definitely +1 for the eyepatch. Are you holding your breath with the effort too? Also something sounds wrong with your finder for sure. Is the base clamp tightened to stop it moving around? Are all three holding points' present (springy post and two plastic screws I guess - to allow adjustment & no threads stripped). Also, is the small rubber ring installed at the front of the finderscope mounting bracket? Perhaps if you could get someone to come with you and check they see what you see too.

hope you get this sorted. Looks like a good scope.

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Out of interest, are you standing or sitting at the scope? Is your head at the right level? I am thinking that if you are having to stoop in an uncomfortable position it could be triggering the headaches?

An adjustable height chair made a big difference to my observing.

I use an adjustable computer chair and stood if I have to. It might be, neck stress is often linked to headaches. I have so many triggers though who knows maybe looking thru an eyepiece is another one. 

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Cannot help with the scope, but dobsonians are not the answer to everything. As to the Telrad I cannot use them either. Can never see a thing through them. I was "lucky" as I found out on someone else's equipment. So never had to buy one to find out.

Any club close that you could get to, people may be able to help and give one to one advice.

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If you wear contacts then leave them in while observing. The last thing you want to do is be removing them while observing, you wouldn't be able to see correctly through the telrad / starmaps etc.

If you wore glasses then you could slip them up into your forehead when looking through the EP.

I've had a number finders over the years. The Telrad (in my opinion) was by far the best. Once aligned to the scope, I don't ever recall having to adjust it - unless it got a knock or I removed it.

Can you take some pictures of the Telrad in place just in case we can spot something not quite right.

The eye patch is a great idea, you look a bit of a muppet but who cares eh?

Cheers

Ant

I think I probably look like a muppet regardless so it's alright. I haven't got the Telrad yet, it's in the mail, I decided I needed one after the first night and I couldn't find Jupiter which I was staring down with my naked eye. 

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Squinting might be causing the problem with focus as well, definitely +1 for the eyepatch. Are you holding your breath with the effort too? Also something sounds wrong with your finder for sure. Is the base clamp tightened to stop it moving around? Are all three holding points' present (springy post and two plastic screws I guess - to allow adjustment & no threads stripped). Also, is the small rubber ring installed at the front of the finderscope mounting bracket? Perhaps if you could get someone to come with you and check they see what you see too.

hope you get this sorted. Looks like a good scope.

The base mount is very sturdy and tight. The 2 adjustment knobs are super flimsy, and move with the slightest bump of the scope. I read to use teflon tape to tighten them up, hopefully that helps. The 'locking' screw also doesn't seem to be doing anything, which may be some kind of defect, I'm too inexperienced to tell. The finder scope 'frame' doesn't move but the alignment just goes crazy whenever the scope movies, I wonder if there's any way to adjust tension on the silver locking screw. Thanks. 

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