Thinking about getting into astrophotography with Refractors ~ $1500 budget for an OTA

[Mikeennamorato]

I've been in and out of anything astro for the past few months, but I've decided to change things up. Just recently found a local astronomy club that I'm going to join soon, and am (possibly) thinking about splashing down on a new scope.

As the title suggests, right now my focus is on a mid-thousand dollar Reflector which would, for the most part, be used for astrophotography. No doubt that I lack expertise in this area, so it is a good thing I know more than a few photographers (along with having you guys to help, of course....).

The SW 120 looks to be the venerable option around here and many of the other online forums as well. It also (just) happens to be in my budget sweet spot. So far I've really only heard good things about the scope, but I'm a man of options.

Which leads me to ask, does anyone round' here have experience with the 5-6 inch Istar-Optical scopes? They are priced great, but that is due to a lack of APO lenses. They claim that AC should not be much of a problem, if at all, but there simply isn't enough information on these scopes for me to confirm that. Hence why I need help......

Of course there are MANY other options out there (too many to be listed), and second to using them in real life, you guys are my best bet!

[Dave Lloyd]

Have a look at the st120mm thread in the scopes forum. It'll help you make an informed decision.

[swag72]

What camera are you planning on using your scope with? I ask as I had a SW120ED and suffice to say that once I got up and running in the world of imaging it didn't stay with me long. I very much felt that the focal length was a bit odd. It was too long for a lot of nebulas that are quite sizeable and far too short for the smaller galaxies. To that end I finally ended up with an 85mm scope and that is a much better focal length for DSO imaging in my opinion. 

Of course, it leaves you short for the small stuff ....... so you have to buy another scope!!

Have a look at the field of view calculator http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php and byt putting in different scope / camera combos you will get a feel for the field of view that you will get with them all. 

[Mikeennamorato]

Have a look at the st120mm thread in the scopes forum. It'll help you make an informed decision.

 

Sure thing, I'll go check it out.

What camera are you planning on using your scope with? I ask as I had a SW120ED and suffice to say that once I got up and running in the world of imaging it didn't stay with me long. I very much felt that the focal length was a bit odd. It was too long for a lot of nebulas that are quite sizeable and far too short for the smaller galaxies. To that end I finally ended up with an 85mm scope and that is a much better focal length for DSO imaging in my opinion. 

Of course, it leaves you short for the small stuff ....... so you have to buy another scope!!

Have a look at the field of view calculator http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php and byt putting in different scope / camera combos you will get a feel for the field of view that you will get with them all.

Haven't decided quite yet, but possibly one of the mid-range DSLR's (I'd go for an astro camera but there are a few reasons a DSLR is better suited for me: more flexible, and I got the connections in regard to having them discounted.) from Nikon or Canon (who appears to be more dominate in the astro department).

Ah yes, the joy of a hobby that leads to multiple purchases... As if Coffee wasn't bad enough...

Thanks for the link, I'll try and use it in a bit.

[graemlourens]

What mount will you be using btw?

As the quality of the images will largely depend on the stability/tracking of the mount and not the OTA itsself, i'm wondering what you're planning on putting that OTA on

Regards, Graem

[ronin]

If the SW 120 is a doublet then I would go for a smaller triplet, maybe the ES 102 triplet at around $1250.

Not sure what Astro-Tech and StellarVue produce, and there are the William Optics scopes as well..

But for astrophotography you want the best scope you can and a big doublet is not always the best.

[kalasinman]

+1 Sarah for the FOV being key. My 150/750 newt is a good fit for popular DSO targets also with an apc DSLR.

[Mikeennamorato]

My mount depends almost entirely on what OTA I choose (weight and cost are both considerations). As of right now, something along the lines of an EQ25 or Advanced CX would be the sweet spot though I could go higher.

Triplets are definitely a consideration, the ES 127mm f/7.5 is right around my budget, as are many smaller options from Williams etc.

In all honesty I am still learning in regards to things like Focal Ratios and the FOV they give off. No doubt that a larger FOV would be superior for astrophotography (DSO).

Thanks all for your time, by the way.

[ronin]

For imaging and long exposure DSO work do not go big, it does not mean the same in imaging as it does in visual.

If you get a 127 triplet then there is a fair bit of weight that upsets the tracking and also a longer focal length that magnify any tracking errors.

The situation is such that a good WO triplet at 80mm and f/6 will out perform a bigger 127 triplet at f/7.5. One of the best imaging scopes is the William Optics Star 71. 71mm diameter and f4.9.

Do not apply ideas from visual to imaging.

[Mikeennamorato]

Thanks for the clarification... Those smaller scopes tend to be a fair bit less expensive too, which allows for both a larger camera and mount budget.

I'll update you guys on my chooses in the near future. Any more recommendations or advice is (as always) appreciated.

[graemlourens]

I would really aggree on going 'small'.

You have so many advantages, especially when you're starting out.

I made this mistake thinking i have to go big at first, and only later found out that with an 80mm APO i can get stunning pictures for years, until i'll want to upgrade.

I'm now on AZ-EQ6 with SW ED80 and could not be happier, the missing aperture you can entirely make up with longer exposure and good tracking.

And something that was told to me and told a lot of times to a lot of people: Overspend on the mount, not on the OTA.

[PeterCPC]

For DSOs I use a SW ED80DS Pro on an AVX and find the FOV just right for the larger DSOs like M31 and Rosette. The guiding is good and I use an Astro modified Canon 1200d. However, it is not so good at smaller targets like globulars and M33 say. You can crop and resize but you lose resolution in the process. 

Peter

[MattJenko]

Another vote for me for using a decent % of the money on the mount. Getting a good mount means you can fit all kinds of potential scopes on it going forwards and use them for whatever purpose you want. Spend most of the money on the scope, and you will just have a lovely looking scope with wobbly views and streaky stars in your images. A good mount is the starting point. There are remarkably good scopes out there for not so much money which can either be used to learn, or even grow to love and keep, and once you know what kind of imaging suites your taste, you can move on to more specialised scopes to that end. You can use the same decent mount for all future paths, but the same cannot be said for the scope.

Good images come from good, stable tracking and this comes from a good mount. Sounds boring, but once you get into this hobby, you realise how much you depend on that humble lump of gears and weights to keep you pointing in the right place and the "dream kit list" starts to become ever more dominated by the mount and the tubes of glass sitting on top become more like garnish.

[DaveS]

Very true.

I would ask, what's your *total* budget for this?

Now put anything from 1/2 to 2/3 of it into the mount, provided you don't leave yourself too short in the 'scope dept. Perhaps look into the WO Star 71 which is showing good images in lots of peoples hands.

You should also budget for a guide 'scope and camera, the QHY5-II is quite a good budget camera, the Starlight Express Loadstar I and II are better but more expensive. As for guide 'scopes the ST 80 is cheap and popular.

Over here the general answer is to get a copy of Making Every Photon Count by our own Steve Richards, steppenwolf of this forum from FLO (See banner at head of page) but I'm not sure if you can get it Stateside.

[Mikeennamorato]

Very true.

I would ask, what's your *total* budget for this?

Now put anything from 1/2 to 2/3 of it into the mount, provided you don't leave yourself too short in the 'scope dept. Perhaps look into the WO Star 71 which is showing good images in lots of peoples hands.

You should also budget for a guide 'scope and camera, the QHY5-II is quite a good budget camera, the Starlight Express Loadstar I and II are better but more expensive. As for guide 'scopes the ST 80 is cheap and popular.

Over here the general answer is to get a copy of Making Every Photon Count by our own Steve Richards, steppenwolf of this forum from FLO (See banner at head of page) but I'm not sure if you can get it Stateside.

I'll try and explain my budget for you (all).

~$1500 for the OTA

~$1000 for the mount

~$200-300 for filters, maybe a guide-scope etc. 

And at least $600 for a DSLR (note that at the discount I will be receiving, it will be somewhere around eight to nine-hundred dollars). I could even wait on this and just buy a nicer DSLR at a later date. 

If not a DSLR, somewhere around $700 tops for the camera. 

Keep in mind the less I spend the happier I'll be... Per the norm of course. That being said I'm looking for a long-term setup and know that you can not really compromise. 

I'll keep an eye out for that book, I may be able to order one copy from a UK site. 

[kalasinman]

I'm guessing you are in USA? OPT has the SW ED80 pro for $649. Savings could be applied to a better mount.

You seem to be leaning towards imaging, so there is no maybe about a guide rig  Orion USA has the pro scope and pro cam for $515, cam is a rebranded QHY5L-II.

IMO you don't need a complete DSLR, or a new one. Just checked Ebay and a number of nice used Canon 60d bodies for around $375. A very nice camera for astro.

If you need a light pollution filter, arguably the best is the Hutech IDAS LPF-D1 OPT has for $189. It doesn't have a color cast and can be in place all the time.

The budget you presented is $3400. What I've listed here comes to $1789 with no mount. This allows a remainder of $1600 which would allow for a better mount, always a good idea.

I've sourced from American companies based on you being there. If you are in the UK, I'd highly recommend FLO, the sponsor here, as have heard nothing but great reports about them.

[kalasinman]

The Skywatcher EQ5 Synscan GPS has 18Kg payload and is just over $1300. A very good mid range mount.

[graemlourens]

+1 for the ED 80.

I have been more than happy with that scope. And its relatively cheap and gives a great view for most beginners targets (andromeda, Orion Nebula all fit nicely)

I would also consider the AZ-EQ6 (i've got that one currently, but don't know if its available in your country) and can not say anything bad about it. Tracking is superb and build very sturdy, for that price a real gem. Depends just if its too heavy for you to carry around. 

Don't forget that if you're into Astrophotography you'll probably need a Focalreducer / Fieldlflattener too (around 200$ ?)

Guiding for me is absolutely necessary, without its extremely difficult to get what you'll want.

I've piggybacked the ST80 with a QHY5L-II mono, and i can make as long exposures as lightpollution allowes, it takes all the frustration away of wasting 50% of your images due to star trailing. (And when you spend 4h at -5 degrees, every picture counts)

Another info: I have always been a person to want to buy new stuff. And its mostly total rubbish. Especially a DSLR camera body that you'll be switching in future many times, it doesn't have to be new. Maybe read about what to have an eye on when buying used ( i think shutter count is important?) 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The Skywatcher EQ5 Synscan GPS has 18Kg payload and is just over $1300. A very good mid range mount.

I think you mean the EQ6, which is an excellent workhorse given the vast number of people using it for AP. An EQ5 is closer to 18 lbs payload, and if somebody charges $1300 for it they are ripping you off.

[graemlourens]

If you're considering EQ6, then look at AZ-EQ6, build quality is higher, tracking errors are lower, and levers to move mount vastly improved.

Just slightly more expensive, but worth the while...

[kalasinman]

I think you mean the EQ6, which is an excellent workhorse given the vast number of people using it for AP. An EQ5 is closer to 18 lbs payload, and if somebody charges $1300 for it they are ripping you off.

I meant what I posted mate. I simply got the suggested retail from the manufacturer. Do you mean the EQ6 pro Synscan? I can't find the page I got the other quote from, but the EQ6 pro Synscan might be right at $1,600 and indeed would be a great choice. 20Kg payload.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I meant what I posted mate. I simply got the suggested retail from the manufacturer. Do you mean the EQ6 pro Synscan? I can't find the page I got the other quote from, but the EQ6 pro Synscan might be right at $1,600 and indeed would be a great choice. 20Kg payload.

EQ5 PRO SynScan GOTO retails at 655 to 665 euro here. Payload 10 (TS) -13 (Robtics) kg for visual depending on optimism of retailer.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p3800_Skywatcher-EQ5-SynScan---SkyScan---GoTo-Montierung-mit-Stativ.html

http://www.robtics.nl/product_info.php?cPath=27_33_129&products_id=1374&pID=1374&language=en

It lists for GBP498 here:

http://www.opticstar.com/Run/Astronomy/Astro-Mounts-Skywatcher.asp?p=0_10_2_0_30

 

[kalasinman]

Great!

[Mikeennamorato]

I'm guessing you are in USA? OPT has the SW ED80 pro for $649. Savings could be applied to a better mount.

You seem to be leaning towards imaging, so there is no maybe about a guide rig  Orion USA has the pro scope and pro cam for $515, cam is a rebranded QHY5L-II.

IMO you don't need a complete DSLR, or a new one. Just checked Ebay and a number of nice used Canon 60d bodies for around $375. A very nice camera for astro.

If you need a light pollution filter, arguably the best is the Hutech IDAS LPF-D1 OPT has for $189. It doesn't have a color cast and can be in place all the time.

The budget you presented is $3400. What I've listed here comes to $1789 with no mount. This allows a remainder of $1600 which would allow for a better mount, always a good idea.

I've sourced from American companies based on you being there. If you are in the UK, I'd highly recommend FLO, the sponsor here, as have heard nothing but great reports about them.

The Skywatcher EQ5 Synscan GPS has 18Kg payload and is just over $1300. A very good mid range mount.

Location - Bay Area in "beautiful" California.

In all honesty, I'd rather splash a few extra for the superior optics of the Star 71. The ED80 looks like a great scope, don't get me wrong... 

Does OPT have that mount listed? Can't seem to find it. 

[kalasinman]

Location - Bay Area in "beautiful" California.

In all honesty, I'd rather splash a few extra for the superior optics of the Star 71. The ED80 looks like a great scope, don't get me wrong... 

Does OPT have that mount listed? Can't seem to find it. 

No, and couldn't find a USA supplier. Agreeing with Mr. Wilkinson's advice I think this would be a great buy   http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p433_Skywatcher-EQ-6-Pro-Synscan-Skyskan-Pro-GoTo-Montierung---bis-20kg.html    Most imagers will tell you to spend on the mount, even bad optics will produce a fair result on a great mount, but even a great scope will turn out rubbish on a poor or overloaded mount. The EQ6 is a favorite of imagers, as is the ED80 for that matter, both for good reason. When you come to wanting a long FL a RC type is a great choice too, especially now that GSO and others are making fine ones at reasonable prices.