Hello from Newcomer needing advice

[TedCrampton]

I am a retired scientist/engineer living in Felixstowe, lots of sunshine and very little cloud. I have been passionate about astronomy all my life but never owned a telescope. Now is the time. My body is not in good shape and standing for long periods let alone standing on a ladder is not on. My thoughts are that a good resolution live video feed is now a serious option together with a "permanently" mounted telescope on the flat roof part of our bungalow.

So I am torn between the idea of the Celestron CPC 1100 GPS XLT and a much bigger dobsonian, say the skywatcher 350p, ease of use vs sheer photon count.

My interests are everything that can be seen. I am as fascinated by the craters of the moon as by the amazing colours and shapes of  nebulae.

I would be very grateful for guidance.

Many thanks

[ronin]

Apologies in advance for this:

Get  a smaller scope, you say "not in good shape" then ask about 2 relatively heavy scopes.

You will not see colours on nebulas, what you see is a sort of grey.

The only one that people report "colour" from is M42 and that tends to be a slight hint of green and from memory a 14 inch scope and above.

The images on the web and in magazines have gone through many hours processing, usually the colours are false. I have seen M42 in red, green, bue and the best was a mauve. All are false colours.

Many are processed from scopes that operate in wavelengths we do not see - Spitzer, Chandra.

I suspect not what you were expecting to have as a reply - my apologies, but the reality of astronomy is a scope is heavy and they are used in the cold so size and weight are very relevant. So whatever you get you are stood outside in the cold bent over.

A CPC 1100 has to be picked up and carried as one lump, a Dobsonian can be in 2 parts, may be more. So the individual bits are lighter.

DSO's are grey blobs, If you want colour then planets Jupiter, Saturn and Mars are the ones, although Uranus and Neptune are Blue-Green they are small.

If you went for either mentioned then the CPC, once set up and aligned you can at least tell it what to point at and so should save you time.

[Sirius Starwatcher]

Hi Ted welcome to the SGL you may want to consider a small ish Dobsonian Scope that would allow you to sit and observe I usually sit whilst viewing with my 8 inch Dob but there are small versions available best of luck with your choice

[wuthton]

I think that you'd be disappointed with the screen image from a video camera. The exposure times are too short to yield any detail.

If you wish to see a nice image on a screen you'd be better off with a DSLR and exposures of over a minute but neither of the scopes you've selected would be suitable for this.

Have a read about astrophotography, particularly the importance of telescope focal length and f-ratio also equatorial mounts are pretty much essential.

The book Every Photon Counts available from First Light Optics is excellent.

[NGC 1502]

Hi and welcome to SGL.

If the scope is to be semi-permanently roof mounted, then portability will not be a concern, as long as you can get it onto the roof in the first place.

But the roof will have to be very solid indeed to avoid vibrations and flexing, and if remotely operated (are you intending to view from indoors via the video link ?) a basic manual tracking Dobsonian won't work because you need be next to it for object location and hand tracking. The Celestron you mention would be ok, and there are Dobs with goto and tracking. There is also the potential issue of heat rising from the building causing turbulence and poor seeing. You would need some sort of observatory or an easily removeable structure.

Are you near to Orwell Astronomical Society ? They are a helpful bunch.

Regards, Ed.

[michaelmorris]

You should be able to get colour in quite a few deep sky objects with a good colour integrating video camera.  Bernard at Modern Astronomy is a good man to speak to about these.

http://www.modernastronomy.com/camerasAstroVideo.html#Mintron72S85HP-EX

Also checkout the video astronomy section of SGL where some people seem to getting interesting results using a tweaked Starlight Express Lodestar.

To get the most out of video astronomy you'll probably want a pretty fast (low F ratio) scope. 

I would have significant concerns about mounting a telescope on a roof.  I suspect it would wobble about all over the place.  I have seen cases where people have built a roof observatory, but in every instance the scope is mounted on a very hefty free standing (i.e. not attached to the roof structure in any way) pier that goes through the building into the ground below. 

I hope this helps

[Charic]

As part of your decision process, take a good look at something like the Skywatcher Skyliner 200P...........A fully manual system, just point and view. So easy to use, and the views are very good under the right skies and conditions. Not sure of your physical ability, but I just lift the whole telescope out the back door, let it cool for a while and then just start using it. 

Our site  sponsor has one here......... http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

If you go down  the route  with  remote systems  for control, electronics, and the need for EQ tracking systems if you want to  partake in astrophotography, then I wish you well on the difficult journey of decision making and getting the right equipment?

Just about everything we see in the night skies with our own eyes is grey? Only sensors can detect the wonderful colours of space!. Dont expect Hubble or Astronomy book images without having the right equipment, the right weather and seeing conditions, and the patience to master everything. 

Andromeda M31 is just the slightest 'smudge of grey' from my garden observatory, but from a truly dark place, I see much more, and its like I'm using  a better telescope. The conditions have to be right, as does the equipment.

[bomberbaz]

Hi Ted. A lot of good advice given above but considerations need to be given to the stability of your proposed mounting area, re the roof. the rest is fairly straight forward and the celestron would be perfect for video feed.

Then its a case of finding a good astrocam, I use a PD1 but i think it would not work so well in your proposed scope, maybe someone can advise better.

[rwilkey]

Hi Ted, working from a flat roof-top may be a problem as heating from the house may warm the ambient temperature, you need to be away from the house and all the warm currents it is likely to produce.  Just a thought!

[nicoscy]

Ted,

Lots of advice was given, all of it good. I suffer from back problems and I seriously want to impress upon you to avoid buying a scope that is too large for you or too difficult to handle.

*If* the telescope will be permanently mounted and *it only needs to be set-up once*, the most comfortable will be a Cassegrain telescope like the CPC 1100. You can observe seated in relative comfort. 

Suitable for both Solar System and DSO observing, webcam imaging and even live camera feed for maximum integration of 30 seconds to avoid field rotation.

An excellent choice if you have a permanent observatory (which is a dream of mine come retirement age).

Good luck with your ventures and if you do go with the CPC, do get a Lymax SCT cooler to speed up the process of cooling the scope to ambient temps.

Also you will need to consider long and medium focal length eyepieces with as wide a field as possible due to the very long focal length of the SCT.

I had the CPC 800 which I had to return as my lower back objected to the weight, but I really loved the scope. If I ever do get to build an obsy, the CPC 1100 along with a 4" wide field refractor are in the plans...

[TedCrampton]

Thank you to all for your help. I sincerely appreciate those who have told it as it is - my enthusiasm need educating! From the many hint my thoughts so far are:

I can not carry anything more than 10kg so whatever scope I get will be installed for me with suitable fixings and covers. I intend to watch and control remotely otherwise it is not going to work for me. I will accept the limitations this imposes but would like to do the best I can in the circumstances.

My flat roof has a 14 inch cavity wall going into the foundations available to fix to. The roof is heavily insulated and covers part of the house that is not heated very much.

If the scope is permanently installed would it need to be cooled?

Given that the scope is not going to be moved around weight is not a problem once installed so I still do not know if the convenience of the Celestron type outweighs the extra aperture of Dobsonians?

I do understand that equatorial mounts make long exposures possible, in my ignorance I assume they need adjusting carefully each day?

Thank you again and I will look up all the recommended kit.

Lastly I am going to apply to join my newly found local society the Orwell Astronomical Society (Thank you Brown Dwarf) and gain the benefit of other peoples experience before taking any decisions. The depth of my ignorance is only exceeded by my enthusiasm!

[wuthton]

It's very wise to head down to a club first.

What you are proposing is perfectly possible but do not underestimate the research and learning curve required.

-Mount control...

By handset, Eqmod, remote desktop, wifi access point?

-Scope selection...

Focal length, f-ratio, field of view (camera selection!) and weight. No scope is suitable for everything.

Focusing...

Motorised focusers don't come cheap. Which software? Ascom or locally controlled?

Plate Solving.... Is enough to send you to the funny farm.

Guiding...?

[happy-kat]

Dobsonian is the name for the style of mount.

On it are usually reflector telescopes.

A reflector would need periodic collimation

Would it be easier to mount anything you decide on at ground level?

[wookie1965]

A warm welcome to SGL

[Charic]

TedCrampton.......What about the possibility of looking into virtual telescope access. Not the same as owning your own, but no back-aching setup on the occasion where help is not available , and you need access to the telescope for whatever reason. I'm sure there would be a small fee to pay for privileged access, and possibly free access for limited use. Some of the best telescopes are  above most weather conditions  plus have darker skies too!

rwilkey mentions the heat rise from your home. Would be like an egg in a frying pan, but on a much lighter scale. Unless your house is  totally shuttered,  warm air from inside and the actual structure of the bricks and mortar and black roof heat retaining materials would also need to cool to ambient temperatures, especially with your telescope sat right in the middle?. It might seem a minor issue, but anything you can avoid that  ensures better seeing conditions is always the better option.The difference between concrete and grass has issues too if folk really want to dispute thermal heat retention and heat release. Your idea of a Dob is good, especially if stored in a shed for weatherproofing /protection, and if possible, with some sort of removable / sliding roof for  ease of use and access.

Looking on the web, rwilkey's  site offers more information http://www.swindonstargazers.com/noticeboard/noticeboard05.htm 

[TedCrampton]

Thank you again.

I have made contact with a friendly and knowledgeable member of my local group and I am persuaded that keeping my options open and getting a good equatorial mount is a good first step. After that you can choose a tube that suits etc. I understand this does not preclude a Dobsonian either.

Virtual Telescope Access sounds fascinating and I will look into it.

A shed with an opening roof or the like sounds much safer all round than my flat roof.

I am a great believer in not reinventing the wheel and so thank you to all for your help.

[happy-kat]

Would something like an all sky cam be fun and also provide visually pleasing views?