Refractor Factor (for visual)

[Moonshane]

Despite my recent frac purchases, in comparison even with the humble 6" f5 Newtonian I have never been impressed with fracs visually other than on solar observing. My own experience is that a Newtonian is both more ergonomic in terms of observing comfort (unless just observing in one area) and  ease of mounting. They also provide better detail and sharpness on the moon and planets than any refractor I have ever used. Maybe I am looking at the wrong refractors! I think fracs provide lovely wide field views of clusters etc but even then the views of most objects is to my eyes at least better and more accessible in a Newtonian.

One possible exception to the above is double stars which are no doubt more compact in a decent slowish frac. But if you were to buy a 6" f8 Newtonian I'd wager the views of almost everything will be better than any frac up to 100mm.

Personally, given your preferences I'd go for the 6" f8 newt.

[Moonshane]

ps

what made you sell the SCT? was it to raise funds for the big dob?

[Alkaid]

Thanks, a lot of good informed advice and suggestions. In terms of Newtonian's, would anyone have any opinions concerning, for example, an OOUK VX 6L - F8 / OOUK VX 8L - F6, with regard to planetary observing? Either of these options I would equally like to consider (with 1/10 pv wave mirrors)  and as I can lug my 14" around, they ought to be fine for handling in that respect.   In addition, any opinions with regards to Lyra Optics F11 refractor and finally whether an ED120 would still be adequately mounted on an AZ4 (with pier mount) - though Damien has already indicated his ST120 will.

The VX6L is a very good scope, good resolution on Lunar and the planets. But too much for the AZ4....I sometimes use mine on the AZ4 but only for low power, there is just too much vibration at high power.

I like the focuser though, and the cooling fan is a nice touch.

[scarp15]

Yes the big dob had something to do with it Shane. The funds went towards a paracorr type 2, which I eventfully decided I would like to use (via agena astro) and a Sky Quality meter. A good deal of my attention is / was on traveling out of the city with the VX14. This is fine in principle, but in reality does not tend to happen that often - certainly not as often as I would like, due to the usual and obvious list of reasons. Anyhow I had begun to enjoy fairly impulsive sessions, at a quiet and open location (close to home) over looking the Town Moor with good horizons to the South and West therefore being much better than my 'problematic' backyard. This I enjoy with the binoculars, however as can often become the case when you sell something, I felt that there was a gap, and wished to include once more, a simple and immediate set up that is portable and versatile and that would complement both the 14" and 15x70 binoculars.

Anyhow thanks again for the input, a 6" F8 dobsonian with the best grade mirrors is also a consideration, will be a bit more portable still and quick / easy to set up and use, particularly inconjunction on a dobsonian mount (which over the past three years I have become very fond of), plus less fickle to the conditions. Lots of positivety  towards the ED 100 to.

[Moonshane]

Iain if ever down in the environs of Mancunia give me a shout. You can try my 6" f11 oouk dob.

[scarp15]

Great, will do Shane,

[Qualia]

There are lots of choices. I really like using the Tal 100rs and it is a cracky scope on the moon, jupiter, sun and doubles. I've been playing around recently with the combination of a larger 10" Dob and a relatively fast 3" APO and to my eyes - for the moment - they really do seem to compliment each other. More so than say the longer f10.

The low power wide field and the larger, more capable Dob are perfect partners. Set up side by side, the stars in the TeleVue frac are just heart wrenchingly gorgeous, and the wide fields offer a whole new perspective on the heavens. Then it's over to the 10" for the power and umph to really delve into those deep sky objects, to dig deeper into the treasure chest and pull out some of the most spectacular objects created by nature.

If one considers that a decent, shorter focal ratio 3" or 4" frac coupled with a Herschel Wedge and a Quark eyepiece will compliment the evening's sky with day time white light and H-alpha solar viewing, I really can't see where one can go wrong. These fracs will also make excellent holiday travelling companions and for that quick, just grab n go

[catburglar]

I'd be tempted to go for a SW 150 Mak on an AZ4. Your existing should be a good match, and whilst you can't get the widest FoV for diffuse nebulae, there's not too much that you won't be able to get close to in a 1.4 degree view with a 40mm Aero or similar. Contrast on planets is great and double stars/clusters are pinpoint

[scarp15]

Thanks for raising the point concerning the 150 Mak. Combined on an AZ4 the system will be highly portable and quick easy to set up and use. The 6" mac will provide a bright image and at F12 will be sharp with great contrast. My only concern would be that for observing planets, the narrow field might benefit more from a tracking mount, although the porta II, as has been mentioned, has nicer slow mo controls.   

[nightfisher]

I use the 150 mak on an AZ, only thing to consider is the finder will end up at 8 oclock, to combat this problem i fitted a second finder shoe, this gives the option of AZ and EQ

[catburglar]

i put mine in some tube rings, so could use it in any configuration. Manual tracking at up to 150-180x mag was fairly easy, my next eyepiece gave approx 250x - focus was tricky at this mag so didn't use it too much. In the end I changed my set up for a Nexstar 6SE thinking the tracking would be a big benefit. It is really nice, but on balance I think I preferred the ease of setup with the mak and AZ4. So much so, that I'm hinking I may go back to it....or mayb even a C8 on an AZ4

[jetstream]

I know one thing Iain, if you were driving to the moore area and could fit the case in the car, a SW120mm ED would be perfect for planetary. Are you going to walk there with the equipment every time or most times? Scope, tripod, mount, eyepieces,stool.....Its great to get out for a walk, but unless the equip is in a backpack of some sort it may be a pain and possibly limit the amount of times out. The 100mm ED is a very good scope too I hear and much more portable. But will it provide the detail your after?

An 6"/8" OOUK would be portable too, provide excellent lunar and planetary views. The 90mm & 120mm I have are really good, but even under below avg seeing the VX10 bests them for lunar viewing, conditions have to be pretty poor for the fracs to win on the moon. The planets are another story.

Really interested in you choice Iain, keep us posted please!

[Alkaid]

I use the 150 mak on an AZ, only thing to consider is the finder will end up at 8 oclock, to combat this problem i fitted a second finder shoe, this gives the option of AZ and EQ

  

How'd you fit the 2nd shoe, did it involve drilling the tube? I've thought about the mak solution before, but shied away due to the finder position issue on the AZ4.

I know one thing Iain, if you were driving to the moore area and could fit the case in the car, a SW120mm ED would be perfect for planetary. Are you going to walk there with the equipment every time or most times? Scope, tripod, mount, eyepieces,stool.....Its great to get out for a walk, but unless the equip is in a backpack of some sort it may be a pain and possibly limit the amount of times out. The 100mm ED is a very good scope too I hear and much more portable. But will it provide the detail your after?

An 6"/8" OOUK would be portable too, provide excellent lunar and planetary views. The 90mm & 120mm I have are really good, but even under below avg seeing the VX10 bests them for lunar viewing, conditions have to be pretty poor for the fracs to win on the moon. The planets are another story.

Really interested in you choice Iain, keep us posted please!

Just my 2 shekels on the portability of the 6" F8 newt, it is portable, as in 'car portable' and going up and down a flight of stairs.....but not 'five minute walk' portable. Its more the length than the weight, rather awkward. I think the weight is about 6kg for mine if amyone needed to know though.

[jetstream]

Portable is in the mind of the dob carrier lol! (jokingly) I carry my VX10 200 meters at times, tube ring in one hand and the base cross member in the other, but lets face it- anything that may impede the number of times out has to be dealt with. I much prefer to observe right next to my truck or off of my deck. OOUK dobs seem easier to carry than others of different manufacture- what a nice carry handle on the base.

Iain will come up with a good solution to try and we are eagerly waiting reports

[nightfisher]

How'd you fit the 2nd shoe, did it involve drilling the tube? I've thought about the mak solution before, but shied away due to the finder position issue on the AZ4.

Just my 2 shekels on the portability of the 6" F8 newt, it is portable, as in 'car portable' and going up and down a flight of stairs.....but not 'five minute walk' portable. Its more the length than the weight, rather awkward. I think the weight is about 6kg for mine if amyone needed to know though.

Yes i drilled a couple of small holes in the tube after removing the rear assembly, very easy to do

[JG777]

I use an SW ED100 on an AZ4 for quick grab and go and find it an excellent combination. If space in the car is maxed out for other stuff then sometimes I take the MAK 127 which is even more portable, both are good choices and the aluminium version of AZ4 is fine with either scope. I never saw a whole lot of difference when I put the steel legs of the HEQ5 on , maybe a bit but not enough to leave the aluminium legs in the cupboard. Maybe it depends on what your idea of grab and go is, for some people large dobs are grab and go!!

For me its the lightest kit and least amount of set up and take down time, so that means sacrificing aperture for ease of transporting, and for maxing the observing time. If I had to choose between the refractor and the Mak then the ED100 would win because of the wider view and faster cool down time, and I have had some very memorable views through the ED100, and the others in the small group I observe with have been wowed by the planetary views. CA is virtually non existent.

I do have some bins and a camera tripod as well , for smash grab and go but in all honesty ED100 and AZ4 is a fast, neat and very capable set up, it just works .

[scarp15]

The solution I have arrived at, for the time being, is that I will undertake a small project to make an aperture mask for the VX14, so thanks to Shane (Moonshane) for both suggesting and providing good clear advice n' information as to how to go about. In this respect I will be looking at setting up the 14" at home, allowing for plenty of opportunity for cool down etc, and initially experimenting with templates to create varied aperture and therefore focal ratios, which may alter my scope from being an F5.3 (with paracorr) to around F11 - F13. Cheers also to Rob (Jetstream) for backing up and further clarifying this idea.

So for grab and go, I was quite taken by considering an OOUK  VX6 F8 or VX8 F6 on a dobsonian mount. Still feasible when cool down time, easier going on seeing conditions and flexibility with portability are taken into account. Yet to mask off the 14" in this regard, probably (now the penny has dropped) makes more sense, particularly for planetary observing by which I have a scope with decent aperture and the option to modify this. In addition, I still quite favour the SW ED100 on either an AZ4 or porta II mount for all the points mentioned in many of the contributed messages, which makes a lot of sense as it will be complementary to my 14" reflector. Actually all the suggestions mentioned are tempting such as a Mak, F11 refractor etc, I guess I need to get out to more star parties etc to sample.However the reality is that a new scope is firmly in the realms of a wish list where as making a mask is something that I can 'grab and go' therefore tackle straight away    

[scarp15]

Cheers also to Rob (Jetstream) for backing up and further clarifying this idea.

Gerry of course! (long day)

[jetstream]

You have the perfect scope for this Iain, now we just have to figure out how to prevent our mirrors from "crawling" with boundary issues, like mine last night! I predict the masked dob will go 275x ......