Tech Makes Life Easier

[AndyWB]

Your's has managed 1015 posts on SGL so it is not doing too bad. :grin:

  I should admit, I'm a software developer...

[Astro Imp]

  I should admit, I'm a software developer...

So you're the guy we have to blame for all the glitches 

[BSG]

Wow. Thanks to all the replies! I agree with nearly all your comments. 

Remember, I'm coming from it as an enthusiastic learner. The more I know, the more I enjoy the subject.

It always seems easy to those who understand it. If you can setup in 15 minutes, well done! (But you probably know more than you realise!). 

It's a bit like Jamie's 15minute meals. On average, I can get the same great tasting dish, but it takes me 1hr, 15m! I don't mind. I got there in the end!

It was only meant to be a word of warning to those who think tech can save their lives. It augments, but never replaces understanding your subject. That was the main point of what I was saying.

:-)

ps. It seems the thing to do at this point is to list the kit so here goes: Skywatcher 200p, EQ5/Synscan, Hyperion eyepieces and a box full of pluggy in bits and dark things that get lost in the dark. Oh, and gaffer tape.

[CSM]

I'm afraid that I got put off Dobs at a star party when I watched a very experienced astronomer spend 15 mins trying to find the Moon and failing.  It was a large Dob and I am sure he found it in the end.  But as I had a bad back at the time and the Moon was high it didn't appeal to me - neither did the constant nudging.  But it's all a personal choice and everyone is different.

Star Parties are great for seeing the scopes and getting advice and they should always be one of the bits of advice given to anyway on these forums asking what telescope to buy,

[nicoscy]

I'm afraid that I got put off Dobs at a star party when I watched a very experienced astronomer spend 15 mins trying to find the Moon and failing.  It was a large Dob and I am sure he found it in the end.  But as I had a bad back at the time and the Moon was high it didn't appeal to me - neither did the constant nudging.  But it's all a personal choice and everyone is different.

Star Parties are great for seeing the scopes and getting advice and they should always be one of the bits of advice given to anyway on these forums asking what telescope to buy,

Said experienced astronomer forgot the basic rules of having an instrument that has a narrow field of view: use a finderscope and / or red dot finder/telrad!!!!!!!!

[Uhwaz]

I have the very same scope and i would disagree with most of the points

Maybe setting it up the first time but after that it takes 15mins tops, 30 if i am setting up with DSLR for some AP

As to its weight that depends on person i suppose, not saying its light but i wouldnt call it heavy eaither

Good luck hope you get on better with it in a while its a great scope

[bingevader]

There certainly is a lot of nonsense talked about GOTO. I got one after three years of getting to know the night sky, but struggling with so little time to go searching for new unknowns. I certainly couldn't have coped from day one. Perhaps that's why there's always hardly used set ups going second hand.

Similar experience here!

I didn't have the time when I first started out.

The etx90 was a godsend.

Yep, takes a little more time to set up than a dob, but if you don't know your way around, it's an excellent intro to astronomy.

However, as others have said, it may well be a size thing.

I'd have found an 8" newt on a complex mount frustrating too!

It wouldn't be my idea of a starter 'scope, that's for sure! 

[Davey-T]

All the above proves is that you need more than one scope, an obs'y and dark clear skies

Dave

[Billy Bluelight]

I agree with every word but.................I'm also a beginner with computerised scopes and can do all that you describe inside 10 minutes - aligned, goes to, tracks for a considerable time without losing the object and I saw more in the first hour with my new Edge than I did in 30 years before.  I wouldn't want to go back to the old way!

Suggestion for one of the problems:  I have a choice of mains or 12v cables and whilst I used mains initially, I soon swapped to battery power.  A decent leisure battery is brilliant and sits safely between the tripod legs out of the way.  It hasn't needed a charge in over two months.   

[Davey-T]

  It hasn't needed a charge in over two months.   

Best to charge it anyway.

Dave

[Billy Bluelight]

Best to charge it anyway.

Dave

I know it shouldn't be run down to nothing - there's a green light which shows it's pretty well fully charged and that just hasn't changed - but should it be charged anyway?  My caravan has a similar leisure battery and goes weeks between use (and therefore charging) with no problems

[Fish]

My first adult scope was a 125 mm mak on an eq 2 , for quite some time it was good enough but then the kids grew up and I had more time and money. I purchased an all singing GOTO scope...... It was a big mistake, I found the time to set it up each night frustrating, and the times it failed on alignment had my blood pressure at an all time high. I quickly sold it and joined the Dob mob..... Great to be able to be up and observing in minuets again.

I then purchased a mount for solar viewing that happened to be a GOTO ( which I thought I hated ) . One night decided to try the GOTO mount at night, set it up and it changed my opinion on GOTO for ever. I marked the position of the legs on the floor and from then on it was minuets to get my GOTO mount ready to observe. That lead to a permanent pier and obsey ....

Things in life change and your requirements for scopes and mounts change but one thing for sure is you can not beat an observatory and a big fat Dob on the patio :-).

Oh and clear skies....

[RuneK]

I got a 150mm newt on a manual gem last year. Had a lot of fun with it, but one can watch Jupiter and the Moon for only a limited time before it gets boring. There is more to watch up there! So I invested in a goto. I did not think it helped much. So I invested in a Starsense camera. Did not get it to work. So I invested in a gps. And got aperture fever, and invested in an 8 inch SC. Bottom line, I recognise the troubles. But was able to sort it out. It now all sings wonderfull together, and all I do before observing is point the tripod  north, and switch the system on, and demand auto align on the HC. I have greatly benefited from all the new technology available, and would be lost without it. I saw more the first night I had the full system up and running, than I saw the whole last season. 

That said, I have in fact learnt from the system. And think that I could get the newt to perform better if I tried it now. It is sort of having a local astronomy group in the palm of your hand when it works. I have read books and forums, but did not grasp it all before the tech stuff showed me how it was done. 
 

Among nice observations I have done with just a couple of nights out is M27, M57 and Uranus. The last one would have been totally lost to me, had it not been for the astronomer in the hand control. 

[Sirius Starwatcher]

Am I missing something here. I thought all telescopes were GOTO.

Some people GOTO the shed to get the scope, some people GOTO the Obsy. I GOTO the shed to get my 8inch Dob

[ollypenrice]

I'm afraid that I got put off Dobs at a star party when I watched a very experienced astronomer spend 15 mins trying to find the Moon and failing.  It was a large Dob and I am sure he found it in the end.  But as I had a bad back at the time and the Moon was high it didn't appeal to me - neither did the constant nudging.  But it's all a personal choice and everyone is different.

Star Parties are great for seeing the scopes and getting advice and they should always be one of the bits of advice given to anyway on these forums asking what telescope to buy,

Honestly, this is nuts. No 'very experienced astronomer' could fail to find the moon in a Dob. Only a halfwit could fail to do so. I hate to be so blunt but the occasion demands it. Who told you he or she was very experienced? If you can't find the moon in a Dob you can't find a traffic jam in London or nonsense on the internet.

On the wider theme of the thread I think we should distinguish between GoTo and tracking systems in Alt Az and  GoTo and tracking systems equatorial. Alt Az systems do need to be level and, thereafter, take no time at all to set up and are great for visual observing. Equatorial systems do not need to be level but do need to be aligned on Polaris. If you are not dong long exposure imaging there is no need whatever to be equatorially mounted and being so tends to be little more than a darned nuisance.

So I party agree with the OP. But a decent Alt Az GoTo and tracking system really doesn't bog you down in the alignment routines of an astrophotographic equatorial system.

Olly

[Ptarmigan]

Gosh, what a lot of posts since I last looked !

I dont mean to be picky nor pedantic, just for discussion ,  but on this matter of AZ GoTos needing to be level :

They should not need to be !

but if the software can assume that you have leveled the mount then it can do its thing with less star obs/aligns from you during the set-up.

So, because I see a lot on forums where some say you must level and others say "I dont and mine is fine " I wonder if there is a difference between vendors systems ?

In particular the number of stars it allows you to align upon and the assumptions it makes ?

For example, with only 1 alignment star the software can only assume a sphere with you at the centre and the direction of the star as the axis of rotation of that sphere. To fill in the rest it needs then to assume your horizon plane, your direction to the pole, your local time and ummm I may have forgotton something else as well

Give it some more stars and it can bring more axes to intersect at 'you', give it enough and it does not need to assume horizontals etc.

That is what spacecraft do

Oh, we're missing Dad's Army ! >>>>>

[ollypenrice]

Sure, being level in Alt Az gives the mount a bit more information. You can get away with one or two star alignment rather than three. This is true. But it is worth spending a minute or two levelling an Alt Az. Contrary to popular belief I don't believe the same can be said for polar aligning an EQ. Essentially you are only calibratng your polar scope reticle.

The OP would like Takahashi's method for polar aligning an EQ mount. WHy anybody does anything else is a mystery since it is fast, easy and accurate.

Olly

[Ptarmigan]

exit Dad's Army, ah they dont make them like that any more !

Yes,

so you remember Sky&Tel ( in when was it 80's ?) when all this home computer alignment m'larky started

(EDIT later, ooooh I may have got the wrong bloke, I cant find the article , , ,)

Not to be too pedantic again ( ) but GoTo aligned eq and Eq mounts are not exactly identical, the GoToeq can be a bit off the pole but the GoTo will still work if its alignment has gone according to plan. Then this eq mount will be just aGoTo Az at almost lat90 and at almost but not quite the long you thought it should be. Ie. the GoTo bit will still goto, and track, the right stars, they will just suffer a wee bit of field rotation.

(OT)

Edit again even later, yep I got the wrong fella, I was thinking Toshimi Taki, "Equations for pointing a Telescope" S&T Feb89 p194

(/OT, sorry for the diversion everyone else )

[todd8137]

Goto does need prior knowledge of stars and constellations ,it also needs a polar align ( have you ever messed around for a hour aligning a polar scope to your mount) I think being sold as a beginners scope is not on par for most .

Having had a decent goto on a pier I found after a while the point and go bored me stiff and the novelty soon wore off and the fever for another big dob took over ,but like most people they jump right in at the deep end and then struggle,for a while,and after a while,setting up is easy but the op made some good points about goto and should be a warning to all

Pat

[swamp thing]

Honestly, this is nuts. No 'very experienced astronomer' could fail to find the moon in a Dob. Only a halfwit could fail to do so. I hate to be so blunt but the occasion demands it. Who told you he or she was very experienced? If you can't find the moon in a Dob you can't find a traffic jam in London or nonsense on the internet.

Couldn't have said it better myself

[CSM]

Honestly, this is nuts. No 'very experienced astronomer' could fail to find the moon in a Dob. Only a halfwit could fail to do so. I hate to be so blunt but the occasion demands it. Who told you he or she was very experienced? If you can't find the moon in a Dob you can't find a traffic jam in London or nonsense on the internet.

Sadly it was true.  Sometime these things happen, even to the best of us.  I was also to blame due to my bad back as I was supposed to be helping but was only a beginner.  I wandered off and I expect he sorted it - or it did it cloud over?  Can't quite remember - must be losing my wits.