Binoviewers - worth the money?

[andynpage]

Hi I am thinking of getting Revelation binoviewers, but would like info or advice first. They seem cheap or good flakey but would it be better to spend a bit more on Williams Optics binos? What eyepieces would be best?

[andynpage]

"value" not "flakey"! Damn this predictive text!

[gooseholla]

I had a pair for a couple of days, they wouldn't focus in my mak. However, they seemed well built and the deal was quite good, as you got a barlow nosepiece and 2 eyepieces for about £140 delivered. I wish they had worked as they seemed a good bit of kit.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

For binoviewers the most important is how large are the prisms used in them.Basically to say:bigger is better as you can use lower power eye pieces in them without vignetting.Majority of cheaper brands like Revelation,SW,WO etc are using 20-22mm prisms what will limit you to 20mm eye pieces due to field stop.Still it is a wonderful experience to observe with binos and even these will do absolutely perfect for planetary observation.Focusing issue is very common in ALL binoviewers and each company approach it differently,but in majority of cases it will be a barlow element introduced in front of bino.i really like the idea of 2 companies so far.baader with they interchangeable glass pass correctors and Denkmeier`s powerswitch.you can read up on both on internet.Revelation,WO will have a simple barlow element with magnification factor of 1.6 or x2 to be screwed in front of bino unit.As for focussing issues,Maks/Casses should be the least problematic ones and should reach focus without any barlow,again,i assume depending on the brand of binos. Refractors normally will have to use barlow element or OTA will have to be shortened to gain that extra inward focus.Dobsonians are tricky,but both baader and Denks have produced special elements what will allow binos to be used on dobs too,so it is not all that bad.

binos with largest prisms cost quite a lot of money and is a serious investment,better start with a cheap one to see if it is for you before you splash out on premium unit.Baader maxbrights are medium class unit and is great,William Optics is fantastic value for money and excelent quality,talking of premium ones,then its televue bino view with its 26 mm prisms,denkmier with 26mm and baader MarkV with biggest prisms available today (also the most expensive unit)

Eye piece wise,people tend to stay with less glass possible so it is either orthos 12.5mm ,18 or 25mm or use plossls from any brand you like,i would recommend televue plossls.

Viewing experience is somewhat unique,remember that binos will take a bit of your scopes light grasp,as such they are not recommended for any scope less than 4",i have a pair of binos and coming from cyclops mode,it is sort of new experience.browsing Moon in particular with Binoviewers,you actually do get the feeling like you are sitting in space craft and hoover over the moon.Will you see something more then with one eye? maybe,as a lot of people do say that,I only had a brief moment with them and i only had 1 pair of eye pieces so i will not comment on that.I am sure we have plenty of members who will chip in with they experiences

[Mark in Macc]

The William Optics binos are excellent value for money. I use mine a lot in my SCT. Fantastic for lunar and planetary observing. The field stops allow use of 25 mm plossls (50 deg) without vignetting so are not limited to 20 mm eyepieces. I use a pair of 25 mm TV plossls.

[denis0007dl]

For binoviewers the most important is how large are the prisms used in them.Basically to say:bigger is better as you can use lower power eye pieces in them without vignetting.Majority of cheaper brands like Revelation,SW,WO etc are using 20-22mm prisms what will limit you to 20mm eye pieces due to field stop.Still it is a wonderful experience to observe with binos and even these will do absolutely perfect for planetary observation.Focusing issue is very common in ALL binoviewers and each company approach it differently,but in majority of cases it will be a barlow element introduced in front of bino.i really like the idea of 2 companies so far.baader with they interchangeable glass pass correctors and Denkmeier`s powerswitch.you can read up on both on internet.Revelation,WO will have a simple barlow element with magnification factor of 1.6 or x2 to be screwed in front of bino unit.As for focussing issues,Maks/Casses should be the least problematic ones and should reach focus without any barlow,again,i assume depending on the brand of binos. Refractors normally will have to use barlow element or OTA will have to be shortened to gain that extra inward focus.Dobsonians are tricky,but both baader and Denks have produced special elements what will allow binos to be used on dobs too,so it is not all that bad.

binos with largest prisms cost quite a lot of money and is a serious investment,better start with a cheap one to see if it is for you before you splash out on premium unit.Baader maxbrights are medium class unit and is great,William Optics is fantastic value for money and excelent quality,talking of premium ones,then its televue bino view with its 26 mm prisms,denkmier with 26mm and baader MarkV with biggest prisms available today (also the most expensive unit)

Biggest prisms have Siebert 2" Elite 45 bino, with 45mm beamsplitter!

[denis0007dl]

Binoviewers are unbeatable for observations comparing to one eye observations, no matter what you observe-yes, even faint DSOs.

Best on worls are of course real Carl Zeiss binoviewers, in which category of course is not counting Mark V, because his optics are made in Checz Republic, NOT in Zeiss factory like almost all thinking!

Baader Mark V bino is made by drawings from real Carl Zeiss microscope binoheads for people who do not know that, so even in binobody nothing is real Zeiss here!

Nothing cant beat real Zeiss binoviewers!!!

[denis0007dl]

One inportant thing: not all Zeiss binoviewers are same, most of them are not good for astronomy because small prisms and uncoated surfaces, and just 3 models are SUPERB and gorgeous!

Prism polishing is made with highest Zeiss precision, which noone cant beat!

I made many years testings, and there is no Zeiss binoviewer I did not try, so I know exactly what I am talking about!

I also tried many Leicas, Siebert BN 45, Denkmeier II and Binotron 27, Baader Mark V (I had 3 pieces of them), and many China binos like WO, Baader Maxbright, TS, Asreo-Professional, Celestron....).

Many experience here!

[denis0007dl]

Hi I am thinking of getting Revelation binoviewers, but would like info or advice first. They seem cheap or good flakey but would it be better to spend a bit more on Williams Optics binos? What eyepieces would be best?

Let me answer on your question:

These binos are Made in China, and have same mechanics and optics like Baader Mark V binos, with prism diameter 25mm, but prisms are limited on eyepiece sides approx 20-21mm. Good thing is that you can supercharge this bino and you get even more clear aperture prisms, which is usefull if you use some WA eyepieces.

All these binos came from same factory from China, so please everyone look here  http://www.united-optics.com/products/Telescope_Accessories/Binoviewer_and_Barlow/Binoviewer_and_Barlow/Binoviewer%20and%20Barlow.html

WO binos came from same factory of course, and same prisms and coatings, except little different design, which you can actually choose when ordering, so WO binos do not worth that money.

I recommend you some 25mm Plossl eyepieces, or if you have more money some good 25mm orthos like Fujiyama or simillar, or Zeiss 25mm orthos.

Hope this helps.

[Pepeporras69]

Hi Denis,

I have read at US about "Supercharging" binos, but someone at europe do this?

Thanks

Pepe

[denis0007dl]

I can do that, even better than Harry Siebert offer, because I remove part which Harry does not(ring which holds fat glass, which is VERY tricky to remove, and it is big possibility that this glass can be broken, that is vhy Siebert to not touch that).

But, if this ring stays inside, you have 23mm clear aperture on one eyepiece side, and when it is removed, you have full 25mm CA!

[denis0007dl]

This is last bino I did supercharge http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=866593

[denis0007dl]

Let me answer on your question:

These binos are Made in China, and have same mechanics and optics like Baader Mark V binos, with prism diameter 25mm, but prisms are limited on eyepiece sides approx 20-21mm. Good thing is that you can supercharge this bino and you get even more clear aperture prisms, which is usefull if you use some WA eyepieces.

All these binos came from same factory from China, so please everyone look here  http://www.united-optics.com/products/Telescope_Accessories/Binoviewer_and_Barlow/Binoviewer_and_Barlow/Binoviewer%20and%20Barlow.html

WO binos came from same factory of course, and same prisms and coatings, except little different design, which you can actually choose when ordering, so WO binos do not worth that money.

I recommend you some 25mm Plossl eyepieces, or if you have more money some good 25mm orthos like Fujiyama or simillar, or Zeiss 25mm orthos.

Hope this helps.

For higher magnifications, I recommend to use mentioned eyepieces + BARADV, 2" Powermates or APM 2.7x ED barlow.

Nothing else of eyepieces is needed!

[swamp thing]

Binoviewers are unbeatable for observations comparing to one eye observations, no matter what you observe-yes, even faint DSOs!

Depending on ones eyesight. They do absolutely nothing for me except make everything dimmer. By splitting the available light into two eyepieces the brain is able to compensate for the light loss. So the theory says.......wrong it doesn't with my eyesight everything (without exception) gets dimmer. I find them useless for DSO.

This is of coarse NOT the bino viewers fault it's my eyesight but it's also a warning that they aren't for everyone. Try before you buy.

[denis0007dl]

Depending on ones eyesight. They do absolutely nothing for me except make everything dimmer. By splitting the available light into two eyepieces the brain is able to compensate for the light loss. So the theory says.......wrong it doesn't with my eyesight everything (without exception) gets dimmer. I find them useless for DSO.

This is of coarse NOT the bino viewers fault it's my eyesight but it's also a warning that they aren't for everyone. Try before you buy.

It depends of what binoviewes you use, and this thread is great and worth to read http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/75959-light-loss-tested-through-my-tv-bver-yikes/#entry998159

[Dude_with_the_tube]

appreciate all your comments Denis and obviously your knowledge,I agree,there is nothing better then Zeiss optically,but also that name "Zeiss" does attract a few zeros on the price too and we suddenly wondered from a 100 quid bino pair into a bino what costs a couple of thousands.I like the idea of supercharging the unit and never had actually thought about it,might be in touch with you if i do decide to go for it.Thanks for letting us know that you are able to do that.

Clear skies

[denis0007dl]

appreciate all your comments Denis and obviously your knowledge,I agree,there is nothing better then Zeiss optically,but also that name "Zeiss" does attract a few zeros on the price too and we suddenly wondered from a 100 quid bino pair into a bino what costs a couple of thousands.I like the idea of supercharging the unit and never had actually thought about it,might be in touch with you if i do decide to go for it.Thanks for letting us know that you are able to do that.

Clear skies

No problem, and I am glad to help anyone.

I am binoviewer expert, and if anyone need help, do not hasistate to contact me.

Also, if anyone is interesting for SUPERCHARGE binoviewer, any kind, feel free to contact me.

[niallk]

I bought the Baader Maxbright version of the cheap binos with a 2.5x glass path corrector in a 250px f/4.7. With the cheapest 25mm kellners the moon detail is amazing - like a new scope. With 15mm TV plossls Saturn is fantastic - saw the Cassini division for the first time. The dream would be to get premium binos in a premium large aperture dob with adjustable trusses - or a shortened set of trusses... My feedback is that I'm delighted I chanced buying these relatively cheap binos - I also use them with baader solar film - the signal processing power of the brain with two eyes makes a noticeable enhancement to the view for me in my scope. Best of luck. Could be a slippery expensive slope to go down though doubling ep collection

[alan potts]

I had an interesting brush with Binoviewers, while I was in England I got myself the 24mm Panoptics as this was the way I was going to go, I already had one so it was a natual step with the fact that selling them is very easy if I didn't get on with them. Anyway got all this and forgot to get the binoviewers which would have been a  Baader type probably the more expensive, since then I have lost interest and sold a 24mm Panoptic.

Some of the Zeiss stuff is really expensive, maybe it is now not as good as it once was. My wife had almost every Bino they make, she used to sell them and I tested them often. I can't say I was that blown away by them considering the cost of them, it is also an eye-opener to see how many problems they had with some of their riflescopes too this however was mostly the the electronic bits on them.

I would like a set of their orthoscopics though but don't like the price tag.

Alan 

[YKSE]

I bought the Baader Maxbright version of the cheap binos with a 2.5x glass path corrector in a 250px f/4.7. With the cheapest 25mm kellners the moon detail is amazing - like a new scope. With 15mm TV plossls Saturn is fantastic - saw the Cassini division for the first time. The dream would be to get premium binos in a premium large aperture dob with adjustable trusses - or a shortened set of trusses... My feedback is that I'm delighted I chanced buying these relatively cheap binos - I also use them with baader solar film - the signal processing power of the brain with two eyes makes a noticeable enhancement to the view for me in my scope. Best of luck. Could be a slippery expensive slope to go down though doubling ep collection

My maxbright with 18mm BCO and 25mm Tak ortho are my favorite planetary combos, in all my scopes. I watched the Alpine valley on the Moon the other day with 120ED, 18BCO and 2.6x glass path compensator for 130x, I could make some of the rocks in the valley, which couldn't be seen in monoview for me. The more relaxed viewing with both eyes seems to stimulate the brain more than the loss of light through a binoviewer.

I understand that binoviewer is not for everyone, some may have too much difficulty in merging the images(it took me a while too), some may have eyesights not suitable for binoviewing. My advice is as usual, if you're interested, buy a used one and try it yourself, you'll not be in a worse position than buying a used eyepiece.

[jetstream]

One inportant thing: not all Zeiss binoviewers are same, most of them are not good for astronomy because small prisms and uncoated surfaces, and just 3 models are SUPERB and gorgeous!

Prism polishing is made with highest Zeiss precision, which noone cant beat!

I made many years testings, and there is no Zeiss binoviewer I did not try, so I know exactly what I am talking about!

I also tried many Leicas, Siebert BN 45, Denkmeier II and Binotron 27, Baader Mark V (I had 3 pieces of them), and many China binos like WO, Baader Maxbright, TS, Asreo-Professional, Celestron....).

Many experience here!

I you were going to buy a non Zeiss bino which one would it be? How do the Leica, Denk etc rank? Thanks Denis

[denis0007dl]

I you were going to buy a non Zeiss bino which one would it be? How do the Leica, Denk etc rank? Thanks Denis

Of course, any China bino like TS, Astro-Professional and simillar.

They have better light transmittion than much more expensive Denk Standard or Denk II.

Worst light transmittion of all comercial binos have TeleVue BinoVue!

I know that probably someone could disagree with this, but please proof me this with direct comparation with photos then ;-)

My recommendation is to buy in this case China bino, and make supercharge to 25mm CA prisms!

[YKSE]

Denis,

You have some very interesting/controversial conclusions, it'll nice that you can explain it in more detail. Lets take these three popular binoviewers, Denk II, WO and TeleVue BinoVue as example.

1. Transmission difference on any DSO you've noticed the? how much?

2. Differences in any Lunar/planetary details?

3. We know that TV BinoVue doesn't have individual diopter adjustment, does it impact your judgement of transmission?

[denis0007dl]

Denis,

You have some very interesting/controversial conclusions, it'll nice that you can explain it in more detail. Lets take these three popular binoviewers, Denk II, WO and TeleVue BinoVue as example.

1. Transmission difference on any DSO you've noticed the? how much?

2. Differences in any Lunar/planetary details?

3. We know that TV BinoVue doesn't have individual diopter adjustment, does it impact your judgement of transmission?

1. Here best transmittion have WO, then Denk II, then BinoVue

Difference between WO and Denk II is subtile, but WO wins, while difference between Denk II and BinoVue is much more pronounce BinoVue is TOO expensive, and old technology

2. I did not test them on Lunar, but yes on Juiter, WO again wins here very subtile in details over all

3. NO. Interesting here is that BinoVue have biggest difference in left/ right splitted light which noticable, which means one side is noticable brighter than other, but anyway, overall transmittion is worse than in any comercial Astro binoviewers I ever had and test.

I know, all this sounds paradoxally (China binos wins here), and one can say here BinoVue is MUCH better and top performer here, BUT, guys, do not someone get you fool, because only real comment can be given ONLY if you have all these binos at same time, test on same scopes, on same targets, and minimum 2-3 testers  ;-)

I spent MANY years testing head by head MANY binos, all written on my book, so I cant forget this  ;-)

....and all these are REAL testings, without favorize anyone!

[denis0007dl]

....and when we talk about built qouality of mechanics, BinoVue wins here definetly, Denk II second, and WO third, but still not bad!