Comparison between TVs Ethos & Explore Scientifics 100 Degree range

[Naf]

As advised I've decided to start a new thread, a comparison of eyepiece brands, but not the two I have started out with, no lets include all of the quality equipment  currently on the market. I would like to hear from you , the owners of these  great eyepieces, your opinions will help all of us ,newbys, or highly experienced amateurs ( does that mean knowledgeable , or just plain old?) make the decisions easier that we all ponder, thank you, clear skies everyone.

[John]

What scope would these eyepieces be used in ?

As you will see from your other thread on the Ethos, the specifications of the scope will make a difference to the comparison.

I've posted this before but I used to have an ES 100 / 20mm and replaced it with an Ethos 21mm. I have not seen much difference, so far, in overall performance with my scopes, the fastest and most "eyepiece challenging" of which is an F/5.3 12" dobsonian. 

That said, I'm happy that the 21mm Ethos has joined my other Ethos eyepieces for the reasons that I also posted in your previous thread.

If the intended scope is a fast Newtonian then a coma corrector would need to be considered as well to get the best from either the ES 100 or the Ethos eyepieces.

PS: There are other 100 degree eyepiece options as well now such as the Meade XWA's, the Skywatcher Myriad, the Telescope Services (TS) XWA's and the even lower cost Zhumell Z100's which are available under several different brandings. Some of these may well contain the same optics within a different body shape.

It's not an overcrowded market yet but it's much busier than it used to be before the Ethos came along !

[Dude_with_the_tube]

Televue with his Ethos range started the 100 degree venture and was picked up by ES,Meade,Skywatcher and other brands as John mentioned.Televue being the most open about they design and stating that ethos will perform without a hitch down to F3 scopes what is a very fast instrument,i think ES wasnt that optimistic and somewhere i saw that they are stating that F4,where Meade never said anything and i think they 100 degree range didnt got a very warm welcome at all and as a result (once again) they XWA range was re-branded and is being sold under different names.There are very little to none reviews on Meade XWA,where there are plenty on Ethos and ES.its an old can of worms who is better and who is not.

Recently also Skywatcher came up with they own 100 degree Eps for very reasonable money.So far reviews have been positive.

Personally i will not pick a clear winner here as it is impossible,it will boil down to personal preferences and your own finances,how much you want to invest,what brand you want.And with majority of the scopes being in F4-F5-F6 range anyway(dobsonians in this case) i doubt you will get massive difference optically.In majority of cases they will be little to none or on really deep sky objects where you need excellent skies what in UK is sort of rarity,on top of that you will also need a 20" + scope to really start finding any differences.

thats my 2p on this.

[Mark in Macc]

I've read reviews on SGL and Cloudy Nights and the consensus seems to be that they are pretty close in performance. I own both the 20 and 14 mm ES 100deg versions and really like views I get with my SCT. The ES 100 deg eyepieces are thought to be copied from the Ethos range but are considerably cheaper if you can source from outside of the UK. Some people prefer to own the originals and support the originators and I can understand that. Others wouldn't get the chance to own an eyepiece of this type if it weren't for the clones. I can understand that too. Each to their own.

[swamp thing]

on top of that you will also need a 20" + scope to really start finding any differences.

thats my 2p on this.

If anyone with these 100deg eyepieces wishes to make a comparison through my scope just bring em on over, i'm sure we can have a good try to see if we can find any differences.

[Naf]

Thanks for the replies  fella's. Does any one else have anything they would like to add?. Clear skies everyone.

[YKSE]

Maybe a couple of question to you before taking the plunge:

1. In what telescopes are you intending to use these EPs? These are excellent EPs for sure, but not "must have" in every scopes.

2. Do you know the weight and size difference these EPs and your current ones? The weight of these EPs might be a challenge for balancing a scope.

3. Have you looked through a 100 deg EPs?  Many love the expansive view of these hyper-wide EPs, there're also some who can't get along with it.

[Moonshane]

I am unusual in that I had one (13mm) and liked it but sold it. With the proceeds I bought 12mm and a 16mm T2 Naglers and put some funds toward a solar scope. It was a wonderful eyepiece but other than field I genuinely find the view through my TV Plossls equally good.

As a result I really don't miss the Ethos and in many ways prefer other options.

[John]

Thanks for the replies  fella's. Does any one else have anything they would like to add?. Clear skies everyone.

I'd add that it's worth thinking carefully about what you want from an eyepiece before jumping into the 100 degree "pool". They are not everyones cup of tea or the "be all and end all" of eyepieces, as Shane and others demonstrate. 

It's sobering to think that a humble a £50 10mm Baader Classic Ortho eyepiece will improve, albeit slightly, on a £500 Ethos and a £250 Delos of the same focal length when it comes to viewing faint galaxies, for example.

[Mike73]

Eyepiece comfort is probably the most important factor for me when buying an eyepiece and even though I don't wear glasses I struggled with Ethos. At a guess I'd say 80% really enjoy Ethos though and they have a solid reputation amongst deep sky enthusiast so I'd rather put my money towards something tried and tested like TV than ES.

Within reason I'm another one who would rather buy an eyepiece from a company who have actually done the research and development rather than just make clones.

edit - Like Shane I also use Naglers rather than Ethos.

[scarp15]

Perhaps ascertain at what focal length you may be aiming for if 100 degree's is something you would be interested in and the role or purpose it may perform. Some like to have a set, others like a mix of eyepieces that provide different observing functions and experiences. Comfort, as mentioned is a consideration, certainly one of my favourite eyepieces is my 10mm delos, I can linger for a sustained period on observing targets when using this eyepiece.

I have recently introduced a 13mm Ethos into my eyepiece line-up (though not used as yet). I expect though that it will be complementary to my naglers, delos and plossl eps.

[Naf]

Thank you all once again for your varied advice.YKSE, I have LX90 12" with a wedge, also a Meade 5' APO, F10 & F7.5. No I haven't had the opportunity to look thru any 100 degree eyepieces.Thanks Moonshane,John,Mike73 andScarpe 15, I'll take all the advice on board.

[ollypenrice]

The last sentence of John's original post concluded,

'It's not an overcrowded market yet but it's much busier than it used to be before the Ethos came along !'

And there you have it. For a couple of decades TeleVue have been creating new and exciting designs for us to enjoy. The rest copy them.  (EPs, I've read, are near-impossible to patent.) Why not reward TeleVue with your custom since they are the ones who do all the work.? Meade are surely the worst of all copycat artists, copying the C8, the Questar, the TV eyepiece designs, etc etc.

Olly

[Dude_with_the_tube]

The last sentence of John's original post concluded,

'It's not an overcrowded market yet but it's much busier than it used to be before the Ethos came along !'

And there you have it. For a couple of decades TeleVue have been creating new and exciting designs for us to enjoy. The rest copy them.  (EPs, I've read, are near-impossible to patent.) Why not reward TeleVue with your custom since they are the ones who do all the work.? Meade are surely the worst of all copycat artists, copying the C8, the Questar, the TV eyepiece designs, etc etc.

Olly

i think thats a bit of over statement.These days everything gets copied or altered,and nothing is impossible,if TV really wanted to patent it,they could off done it.Not that i am blaming them for not doing that.if we start looking into copying things,then also all the car industry should be hanged up and every other industry too and this in my mind is ridiculous.As for your support of Televue,in my understanding,support is when you buy NEW eye pieces either direct from Televue or via they distributor network so all the money you hand over,goes to them,however,if you bought a second hand item from some chap here or there,this is by all means no any support at all.How many budding astronomers will be happy to shell out 500-700 quid for 1 eye piece and purchase it direct from distributor?How many eye pieces or equipment you have bought new and direct from distributor? i think there will be only a few isnt?

Is meade the worst? i cant really say that.back in the years when they production was run from Japan,it was Meade who came up with they meade RG`s,superplossls and other superb things which are still highly regarded and used up to this day.Things went down for them as due to competition they had to move to Thailand and China,also possibly new owners/managers bad decision.but then again,the same thing could be said for other companies too.At the end of a day,then we should also blame Skywatcher,Celestron,Williams Optics and all the others for copying things .

Al Naglers eye pieces are revolutionary design and by all means,optically superb,but we cant forget that price is also deciding factor.There are still a lot of people out there for whom 50 pounds per eye piece is the top they will be willing to pay.

I do apologize to distributors for mentioning any companies they represent and it was not my intention to blame them for anything.

To be honest,I think we have gone off the topic.

[Bart]

I think someone commented before that because of the cost of these beasts, there aren't many that have owned, or even had in their possession, both to compare. You might have to go the various reviews for that. Some may have had them at different times and that is probably worthwhile.

I have the ES 100* 20mm and 14mm. I enjoy them a lot and find them very easy to use. I actually find my ES EPs easier to use relative to the Naglers I have as I have found the TVs suffer a bit from Kidney beaning more than the ES. I can't explain why as you dont hear about it that often. Noone likes criticising the TVs!!

Don't get me wrong, I was woo'd (spelling) by the Green and Black, but was ever so slightly dissapointed. Great EPs, just not better than the ESs I've owned.

Cue cries of 'Heretic!' - Gulp!

Barry

[Naf]

Well there some varied opinions here, Ethos still seems to be the favorite, as far as possible punishment for heresy is concerned they're are more extreme punishments in other  unmentioned religions.Clearly they is a lot of passion out there for several brands.