The ultimate, easy and affordable solar scope???

[russ.will]

I use a Lunt Herschel wedge for solar and was very keen to try the Quark at the weekend.

To be honest, the combination of an overly long scope on a sticky, unbalanced Alt/az mount, plus a 40mm Plossl that had eye relief somewhere behind my shoulder, left me somewhat underwhelmed. Brief glimpses showed real promise, but the one that really blew my socks of the was the double stacked (60mm?) Lunt that looked so textured, deep and three dimensional, I may never be the same again. I actually thought the double stack offered more than simply going larger, but what do I know!

If I've calculated it right and Stellarium isn't lying, the Quark in the ES 80mm F6 Apo would give a full solar disk which I do like looking at. The appeal of the Quark for me, lies in the duality of roles the F6 Apo will enjoy  - triality if you consider Ha, white light and astro - as long as it can do the full disk? It is a 4.32x in focal ratio, yes?

Russell

[TakMan]

Evening chaps...

 

moriniboy -

 

80mm or less = no additional filter required

 

Over 80mm but less than 150mm = IR/UV filter screwed into the diagonal - make sure it's a newer one that truly reflects the heat and does not absorb it! They suggest/use the Astronomic one but I'm sure that the Baader one that FLO sells says it reflects as well now - perhaps not some older versions...?

 

OVER 150mm = D-ERF style filter is quoted as REQUIRED.

 

+ Not to be used with oil (no TEC140 then) or cemented optics or a Petzval design (so better not use the FSQ), scope either!

 

Luke, the Baader Herschel wedge is a step-up (slight step up for the price) from the Baader solar film which I also use for public outreach with the OO dob. I've used the wedge with and without the continuum filter and the wedge does show more subtle details - but that could also be because of the refractor type optics! What I do like with the Baader one is the 'screen' on the back to help find the sun - the chap looking after the APM/Quark could have done with it rather than using his velcro fastened solar finder device and squinting!

 

The power packs I found were down as low as £15 on Amazon - just look for the same design, end plate with the connections/lights and of course the solar panels! I think it said the Quark requires USB 5V 2amps and the ones on Amazon said that - was it 90 dollars for an 'official one' - I don't ruddy think so!

 

russ.will  I agree about scopes on unbalanced mounts, but I didn't think the APM was too long (Saturday) and I'm fortunate that the Nova handles the Tak with fluidity and grace - it will soon have tracking like a GEM as well! Whilst you are surely correct that the double stacked Lunt was superior, I think it is worth remembering that a scope like that would be serious money, many times that of the Quark and probably more than most would want to spend on a scope - any scope for that matter, be it for day or night-time use! For the casual solar observer I personally thought it offered a viable solar viewing alternative to a PST or smaller dedicated solar scope (although there is that wait whilst it heats and comes 'on-band', then the clouds will have rolled in   ). If I was looking to spend upwards of £3-4k, I'd be after a second hand ('proper' - that'll get some grief   ) Solarscope originating from the Isle of Man personally!

 

 Got to thank those (amateurs like the rest of us) that took the time and effort to set-up their own solar scopes for our viewing pleasure - including that Calcium CaK scope - really liked that... sort of like an improved white light view....

 

Damian

[russ.will]

russ.will  I agree about scopes on unbalanced mounts, but I didn't think the APM was too long (Saturday) and I'm fortunate that the Nova handles the Tak with fluidity and grace - it will soon have tracking like a GEM as well! Whilst you are surely correct that the double stacked Lunt was superior, I think it is worth remembering that a scope like that would be serious money, many times that of the Quark and probably more than most would want to spend on a scope - any scope for that matter, be it for day or night-time use! For the casual solar observer I personally thought it offered a viable solar viewing alternative to a PST or smaller dedicated solar scope (although there is that wait whilst it heats and comes 'on-band', then the clouds will have rolled in   ). If I was looking to spend upwards of £3-4k, I'd be after a second hand ('proper' - that'll get some grief   ) Solarscope originating from the Isle of Man personally!

Sorry Damian - I was less than clear. I meant the double stacked 60mm was, to my eyes, better than the larger single stacked scopes.

I did spend a good 30mins just wandering up and down the scopes, trying to establish some pecking order in my tiny brain. IMHO, the Quark looked better than the 35mm jobs and on a par with the single stacked 60mm, but how much of that was down to the scope the Quark was hanging off, I don't know. From what I saw, it was enough to convince me that the Quark is definitely on my shopping list, because at £3.5 to 5k, the bigguns ain't!

Russell

[Stu]

Thanks all for the fantastic replies to the thread. I need to go back and read most of them, but the Quark certainly seems to have generated some interest!

I'm with Russell, I know it may not be the best, but from a price perspective it fits more into my budget and should give a definite increase in performance over the PST, plus flexible options in terms usage in different scopes. The TV76 or 85 with a Herschel Wedge, Quark, Leica Zoom and VIP Barlow on a mini giro and photo tripod would make an ultimate travel kit I think.

Plenty to think about in terms of what would make a good scope to use for larger aperture, perhaps an Evostar 120 may be optimal.

I also get the comments re full disk viewing with a PST mod. By my calculations, a mod is still more expensive than the Quark, am I correct in this? Would be good if someone could put together some relative costings.

Last point, there remains confusion over the aperture limit where a D-ERF is needed, can anyone bring some clarity to this?

Thanks all

Cheers,

Stu

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[Zakalwe]

Last point, there remains confusion over the aperture limit where a D-ERF is needed, can anyone bring some clarity to this?

I'm no expert, but from what I have seen you should be looking at something greater than 50% of the objective.

[Steve Ward]

The big gold beast on show at the IAS on Saturday was Gary Palmer's SolarMax II double-stacked 90mm with a BF30 ... 

To my eye it was far and away the best view on offer , but that was hardly a surprise ... 

I was quite impressed with my first look with the Quark , but as has been said the experience was spoiled somewhat by the ridiculous choice of mount and a poor eyepiece , I'm sure that a lot of folks who had a peek actually walked away without seeing anything due to the Sun drifting rapidly from the FOV.

I would love to have a chance to assess one on a tracking mount sometime soon , a side by side with the LS50 would be nice.

[Luke]

Russell, it's good to hear views, good and bad, from people who have looked through the Quark. I've seen their website say the Barlow is 4.2x, but the manual seems to say 4.3x. The manual is here:

http://www.daystarfilters.com/downloads/QuarkManual.pdf

The manual claims you get full disc under about 450mm focal length. I am hoping my 60mm scope, 360mm focal length, will be perfect for a grab and go for holiday. Full disc with the Quark, a decent performer with a Herschel wedge for white light (using a tiny Lunt 1.25 wedge), and for me plenty of fun to be had viewing the Moon too or taking in some wide or bright targets at night.

I use a Lunt Herschel wedge for solar and was very keen to try the Quark at the weekend.

To be honest, the combination of an overly long scope on a sticky, unbalanced Alt/az mount, plus a 40mm Plossl that had eye relief somewhere behind my shoulder, left me somewhat underwhelmed. Brief glimpses showed real promise, but the one that really blew my socks of the was the double stacked (60mm?) Lunt that looked so textured, deep and three dimensional, I may never be the same again. I actually thought the double stack offered more than simply going larger, but what do I know!

If I've calculated it right and Stellarium isn't lying, the Quark in the ES 80mm F6 Apo would give a full solar disk which I do like looking at. The appeal of the Quark for me, lies in the duality of roles the F6 Apo will enjoy  - triality if you consider Ha, white light and astro - as long as it can do the full disk? It is a 4.32x in focal ratio, yes?

Russell

[RikM]

... a side by side with the LS50 would be nice.

That's the comparison I am most interested in.

[Luke]

Damian, thanks for all the infos! I wasn't very clear re: the wedge. I am already using a Herschel wedge (well, two of them, the Lunt 1.25 for my small fracs, and the Baader for my Equinox 120) but longer term I might like a fancy frac around the 100mm mark. So if the Tak 102 is a-okay with a Herschel wedge, that could be an option for me! For some reason I had got it into my head that I needed an air-spaced doublet, but apparently not so?

Yes well done to the solar folks helping out! re: the CaK scope, did you look directly through the eyepiece? I ask because I have heard that CaK was more for imaging than visual depending on your eyes?

 

Luke, the Baader Herschel wedge is a step-up (slight step up for the price) from the Baader solar film which I also use for public outreach with the OO dob. I've used the wedge with and without the continuum filter and the wedge does show more subtle details - but that could also be because of the refractor type optics! What I do like with the Baader one is the 'screen' on the back to help find the sun - the chap looking after the APM/Quark could have done with it rather than using his velcro fastened solar finder device and squinting!

 

 

 Got to thank those (amateurs like the rest of us) that took the time and effort to set-up their own solar scopes for our viewing pleasure - including that Calcium CaK scope - really liked that... sort of like an improved white light view....

 

Damian

[Steve Ward]

" Yes well done to the solar folks helping out! re: the CaK scope, did you look directly through the eyepiece? I ask because I have heard that CaK was more for imaging than visual depending on your eyes? "

The CaK rig was a Lunt CaK Module with the B1800 on the back of Mark Townley's frac , I was able to make out the main spots and some faculae/plage but not a lot of detail.

Apparently 'young' eyes can make out a great deal of detail in CaK visually , but as we age our corneas naturally take on a yellowing that dramatically reduces sensitivity in the near UV , there was a range of age groups viewing and the comments confirmed this with most older observers describing the view as a 'dim purple blob'.

There was a good range of scopes to try out , Mark's 40mm DS and a Herschel wedge Whitelight paired up on one mount , Gary's 90mm DS , a Lunt LS80 SS and the 'Quark'.

Was very disappointing to find that Lunt had no LS50 to try out , and even more disappointing to hear from the rep that none will be available here 'til late July at the earliest , more likely to be mid-late August .

Still that does give me a little more 'saving-up' time I guess ... 

[Merlin66]

IMHO, based on the solar chat site results - Don't hold your breath to get a complete solar disk - it will require short focal length and hence probably small aperture ( loss of surface resolution) - imaging is only for surface detail.....

The Quark bandwidth is very close to that normally achieved with a double stack arrangement. This will give much better views of the filaments/ active areas than any single stack scope....

Let's see what happens when more become available....there should be some interesting feedback.

Re PST Mod....

From scratch:

A Stage 1 Mod (keep the Black box)

PST Ha scope

>80mm aperture f10 "donor" scope

ERF (can be sub diameter mounted in OTA, suggest >50% the clear aperture)

Adaptor nosepiece for PST etalon

This still gives some issues with the small BF5 and restricts imaging.

Total cost will vary but say around 900 gbp

A Stage 2 Mod

- All the above

A rear PST adaptor

Borg #7315 helical focuser

T thread spacers

A BF10 (or BF15) blocking filter

This gives the ultimate performance from the PST etalon, great visual and no issues with imaging.

Costs? Well the focuser and adaptor say <150gbp - the BF10/15 is the current show stopper...these can cost up to 350gbp!!!

http://www.optcorp.com/coronado-bf10-10mm-blocking-filter.html

[Joves]

Damian, thanks for all the infos! I wasn't very clear re: the wedge. I am already using a Herschel wedge (well, two of them, the Lunt 1.25 for my small fracs, and the Baader for my Equinox 120) but longer term I might like a fancy frac around the 100mm mark. So if the Tak 102 is a-okay with a Herschel wedge, that could be an option for me! For some reason I had got it into my head that I needed an air-spaced doublet, but apparently not so?

Yes well done to the solar folks helping out! re: the CaK scope, did you look directly through the eyepiece? I ask because I have heard that CaK was more for imaging than visual depending on your eyes?

Luke, a used TV102 might also be a decent option. By all accounts, they're a great scope and would be suitable for your desired uses. Would also allow you to 'keep it in the family'!

[Stu]

IMHO, based on the solar chat site results - Don't hold your breath to get a complete solar disk - it will require short focal length and hence probably small aperture ( loss of surface resolution) - imaging is only for surface detail.....

The Quark bandwidth is very close to that normally achieved with a double stack arrangement. This will give much better views of the filaments/ active areas than any single stack scope....

Let's see what happens when more become available....there should be some interesting feedback.

Re PST Mod....

From scratch:

A Stage 1 Mod (keep the Black box)

PST Ha scope

>80mm aperture f10 "donor" scope

ERF (can be sub diameter mounted in OTA, suggest >50% the clear aperture)

Adaptor nosepiece for PST etalon

This still gives some issues with the small BF5 and restricts imaging.

Total cost will vary but say around 900 gbp

A Stage 2 Mod

- All the above

A rear PST adaptor

Borg #7315 helical focuser

T thread spacers

A BF10 (or BF15) blocking filter

This gives the ultimate performance from the PST etalon, great visual and no issues with imaging.

Costs? Well the focuser and adaptor say <150gbp - the BF10/15 is the current show stopper...these can cost up to 350gbp!!!

http://www.optcorp.com/coronado-bf10-10mm-blocking-filter.html

Thanks very much Ken, great info

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[Luke]

Thanks for the suggestion, Aaron. The 102 is on our very short shortlist The 85 is blowing me away in white light at the moment given its size, and it gave a great view last night of Saturn. And for the Quark, that would sound interesting as well

Also, we need a third Tele Vue baseball cap, for our son.  And I don't think it would be fair for the cat to miss out either...   Just the small (!) matter of funds now, though we should get a bit for our 100 and 120 and their upgraded focusers if we got that route.

Luke, a used TV102 might also be a decent option. By all accounts, they're a great scope and would be suitable for your desired uses. Would also allow you to 'keep it in the family'!

[Merlin66]

Hmmm

I thought the TV102 was a Petzval type scope (like my ol' Genesis), or is it just the NP101??

Need to check, the Petzval design can be used without an ERF i.e. with the Herschel wedge but I've never had the guts to actually try it myself....

[Joves]

Nope, the TV102 is a simpler doublet. I was very tempted by one not that long ago. A larger version TV76 with a longer focal length for planetary viewing was an attractive option, but decided to give it a miss. I reckon I probably will end up getting one though.

Luke, them caps are quite expensive to collect, aren't they! Haha

[Stu]

Hmmm

I thought the TV102 was a Petzval type scope (like my ol' Genesis), or is it just the NP101??

Need to check, the Petzval design can be used without an ERF i.e. with the Herschel wedge but I've never had the guts to actually try it myself....

Agreed, the 102 is f8.6 if I remember correctly, no petzval.

I've heard for people using Genesisisiseses (or Genesiii) with a Herschel wedge but I know it's not recommended.

One crazy idea I had was wondering what would happen if you took the petzval cell off, giving you an f12 ish scope, with an extension to the tube could that form the basis of a PST mod without needing to cut a tube? The petzval is a threaded cell so no problem of re-alignment when replacing...?

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[Merlin66]

Sounds like a job for only the bravehearted and very adventurous !!!!!!!!!!

[Stu]

Sounds like a job for only the bravehearted and very adventurous !!!!!!!!!!

;-)

You were a whisker away from adding 'foolhardy' there, weren't you Ken :-)

Best avoided then

Out of interest, does the need to be exactly f10, or will f11 or 12 work?

Stu

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[Merlin66]

;-)

For optimum performance the PST donor needs to be f10 or above...

I'm using a TS102 f11 (same stable as the Lyra Optics) for my current mod...it works 100%

[Stu]

Thank you

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[TakMan]

Damian, thanks for all the infos! I wasn't very clear re: the wedge. I am already using a Herschel wedge (well, two of them, the Lunt 1.25 for my small fracs, and the Baader for my Equinox 120) but longer term I might like a fancy frac around the 100mm mark. So if the Tak 102 is a-okay with a Herschel wedge, that could be an option for me! For some reason I had got it into my head that I needed an air-spaced doublet, but apparently not so?

Yes well done to the solar folks helping out! re: the CaK scope, did you look directly through the eyepiece? I ask because I have heard that CaK was more for imaging than visual depending on your eyes?

Hi Luke

To answer your questions, I use the 2" Baader Cool Ceramic Herschel Wedge on the TSA and not noticed any issues at all. I've tried it with and without the continuum filter as well and sketched at the eyepiece. The filter does offer a tad more detail but I didn't like the colour! The wedge does offer a better view than through the Baader Solar film (other films available!), but not massively so for the increase in cost.

Yes, I did look twice through the CaK and could see details and not just a blob! I've read the reports about young eyes, etc. I'm not in the market for a CaK scope, but was happy to look through one of course. I was surprised by the level of detail - as mentioned before (and not being a solar observer as such), that it looked like a more subversive white light view,  somewhere in the middle of white light and Ha.... I'm 43 (gulp) but have a keen eye (or two I'd still like to think) as my profession is graphic design. Can't stop the ageing process, but detail could be seen all the same.

I'm agreeing with the Quark comments posted so far....

Sorry Damian - I was less than clear. I meant the double stacked 60mm was, to my eyes, better than the larger single stacked scopes.

I did spend a good 30mins just wandering up and down the scopes, trying to establish some pecking order in my tiny brain. IMHO, the Quark looked better than the 35mm jobs and on a par with the single stacked 60mm, but how much of that was down to the scope the Quark was hanging off, I don't know. From what I saw, it was enough to convince me that the Quark is definitely on my shopping list, because at £3.5 to 5k, the bigguns ain't!

Russell

Hi Russell, I wasn't being funny in my response to you and yes, I agree with your findings - I too walked up and down getting views and gathering my thoughts. Then ran off to find the guys I'd come with so they got the chance to view. For someone like me who only has a passing interest in solar - but who does do public outreach events with Baader solar film on the dob as part of our commitment to the forestry centre where our group meets, I am seriously contemplating a Quark purchase to go alongside the PST that usually is in attendance.

Lets think what we're saying, the Quark gave views comparable (if limited FOV), to a 60mm dedicated solar scope (albeit on a nice apo refractor), costing twice the price?  Yes, "full disc views or the lack of la-de-da", but as soon as I'd looked at the full disc on the other scopes I was zooming in to look at details. I'm thinking how I observe the moon.... I don't spend ages looking at the full disc very often - I'm swapping out to a high power eyepiece to take in the details... the Quark will do me fine!

Damian

[Mark at Beaufort]

I attended IAS last Sunday and upon my arrival, about midday, I had to walk past the line of solar scopes. I have been thinking of buying the new Lunt 50mm to replace my PST which I bought 10 years ago. I was disappointed when the guy from Lunt stated that the Lunt 50mm was not on display and would not be available until July/August.

Before I entered the show I had a look through the Lunt 150mm (high mag just on a prom), Lunt single stack 90mm and finally the Lunt double stack 60mm. The view through the Lunt double stack was incredible and it made me think would I require the same double stack arrangement if I bought the 50mm scope.

Because I wanted to buy tickets for the afternoon lectures I walked past the other scopes not really looking what was on display. I guess one of these scopes would have been the Quark so I am annoyed I did not take more notice.

So to answer Shane's original question -

1) My PST currently provides very good surface and prom detail - how much better will the Lunt 50mm be?

2) I don't want to undertake a PST mod so that arrangement is off the radar

3) I currently have a 102mm Astro Tech APO which provides excellent white light solar views through a Lunt Herschel Wedge. I assume to use this scope with a Quark I will need a UV/IR cut filter. I will not require an ERF.

4) It appears that if I want the same solar scope to cover both H.Alpha and White Light I should consider buying a smaller frac about 70mm and buy a Quark device. I notice that the Quark needs a battery can someone give me the link to Amazon as mentioned in a previous thread.

I will now certainly wait until later in the year to read the reviews on the Lunt 50mm and further info on the Quark.

[TakMan]

Here is a link to an 'official' one: http://www.astromarket.org/solar-astronomy/daystar-quark-h-alpha-filter/30ah-solar-charger-for-the-quark#.U412uGkbW1Q.facebook

Yours for 'only' €95

...or...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00J3ML17C/ref=s9_simh_gw_p86_d4_i3?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=02VPM9N0A4RV7P1XCMW3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455344027&pf_rd_i=468294

or if you want a red one to match your Quark!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GOYZ8EO/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i6?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1ZYNHJZQA9XW0Z24ZWR8&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455344027&pf_rd_i=468294

Remember, you need a USB 5V 2amp, so double check first!

Damian

[Mark at Beaufort]

Thanks Damian