Thoughts on Light Pollution

[astro man]

Hi guys I have to write an essay for school and for my general topic I have chosen Astronomy (obviously) My essay is all about light pollution and the effects it has on a telescope. To go alongside my essay I would like to get some other Astronomer's opinions on light pollution. If you are interested in sharing your thoughts. Please can you give answers to the following questions.

1. Has Light pollution got worse over the last 30 - 50 years. If so what effect has this had on  your Astronomy?

2. How have you or haven't you  tackled the problem of light Pollution ?

3.  What effect does light pollution have on your telescope ?  ( How have you got around this EG filter kits)

4. When you were a child could you look up every night and see the stars from where you lived ? ( If answer is no when was the first time you saw  a proper night sky.

Thanks guys

Astro man

[malc-c]

1) - Yes.  With more housing and out of town shopping centres there is more LP

2) - Yes - I now image rather than observe

3) - Silly question as its obvious, the poorer the sky the less we see.  As I now image filters play a part in cutting out LP, but then that itself can have its issue in terms of post processing

4) - Yes, My parents home was in a darker location with fewer lights that went out at 11:30pm every night

[Scooot]

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/22/night-fight-light-pollution

This is a good read.

Yes I think it's got worse but beginning to improve with various part night lighting schemes.

I basically put up with it. I only use a filter for some nebula as most other filters dim the stars as well as cut out some of the light polution.

I can't really remember what the night skies were like as a kid but the street lights in the 60's weren't sodium lights they were like tiny toc h lights on poles.

[Qualia]

1. Has Light pollution got worse over the last 30 - 50 years. If so what effect has this had on  your Astronomy?

2. How have you or haven't you  tackled the problem of light Pollution ?

3.  What effect does light pollution have on your telescope ?  ( How have you got around this EG filter kits)

4. When you were a child could you look up every night and see the stars from where you lived ? ( If answer is no when was the first time you saw  a proper night sky.

1. Really don't know. Wherever I have gone that mucky orange glow has always been lurking somewhere near. For my generation, I guess the awareness of the depletion of natural resources, carbon emissions and increases in fuel consumption has always been a reality. The affect on astronomy is clear, LP not only cripples what I can see in the night sky but essentially robs me of their inherent beauty and detail. I know divide my sessions into two types, LP sessions - solar system and doubles and dark site sessions - DSOs.

2. Philosophically I cannot try to have two incompatible things; that way the cuckoo flies. I mean, on the one hand, I want to work, I want cheapish clothes, food, astro-gear, running water, electricity, internet etc, but on the other, I want these perfect dark skies. How's that possible? How can one have the things offered by modern life and yet shun the obvious consequences of such a way of existence? Sure, I could simplify my life, move to the sticks, live like Thoreau in a hut, make my own clothes, cultivate my own food, but I know I'd partcipate instead in the life of hypocrisy. I would live out in the countryside whilst taking advantage of all the mod-cons society offered me and if others have to put with pollution at my convenience, well that's just their problem, not mine. I can have my cake and eat it.

3. Same as the answer in 1. Simply robs them of the beauty it could capture of the night sky.

4. I remember always seeing the stars as a kid, but first time I saw the Milky Way in full splendour was in my early twenties up a mountain in Spain. It really did look like those photo images.

[chiltonstar]

1. Hugely

2. Go to remote France if I want to see the night sky as it should be

3. LP filters? Not a lot of use visually for me, better for imaging; a dark-sky site is better

4. I was born and brought up in Greater London; the night sky there (50s) was better even there than today here in a rural, relatively dark site (Berkshire Downs). Not every night of course - it rained then as well!

When I was a child, councils could not light towns (and countryside) like day - the electricity costs would simply have been unaffordable.

Chris

[MrFinster]

1) Yes, how can it not?. The growth of out of town supermarkets and industrial estates, architectural exterior night lighting, more street lighting to name a couple.

2) Short of committing an act of criminal damage with a projectile weapon, its hard to do anything to reduce excessive light pollution outside of your own property, there is too much pressure from paranoid homeowners and self important road safety lobbyists.

The trouble is that people are conned into being afraid of the dark by sensationalised news reporting and assume that crime will not happen if an area is lit up with strong lighting.

What people dont consider is that someone walking through an illuminated area at night with a hi viz vest on does not get a second glance compared to someone walking about a dark area with a torch.

Admittedly, some areas need to be illuminated at night but the great majority of night lighting is unnecessary, intrusive and a wanton waste of energy.

3) I have never had my scope out at a truly dark site, but I have never used an LP filter. I am fortunate enough to be able to get myself to a semi dark location on the odd occasion. If I observe at home, I am forced round the back of the house by the new extra tall street lamps that now light up my front garden.

4) Definately more stars, I remember a lot more being up there when I was a nipper. You could see a ghostly glow which was the milky way in the back garden of the suburban estate I grew up on despite Huddersfield's attempts at turning the sky orange.

[ronin]

1. Has Light pollution got worse over the last 30 - 50 years. If so what effect has this had on  your Astronomy?

Actually no real idea, didn't really do astronomy 30+ years ago.

Expect no one here had a light meter then and measured LP 30+ years ago.

30-50 years is a big number, and so the question is likely irrelevant on those timescales.

2. How have you or haven't you  tackled the problem of light Pollution ?

Haven't, simply learnt to life with it, it isn't going to change. People want their streets lit.

3.  What effect does light pollution have on your telescope ?  ( How have you got around this EG filter kits)

Does nothing to the scope, scope can sit under LP all night and it has no effect on it. Nothing corrodes.

Isn't this the same as 3 ?

4. When you were a child could you look up every night and see the stars from where you lived ? ( If answer is no when was the first time you saw  a proper night sky.

Not every night, grew up at the edge of a small village in Wiltshire, it was WET there so cloudy, but when clear (rare) yes I could.

Also the place it is still unchanged, no expansion, so you can still look up when not raining and see the same stars, under the same conditions.

[DaveS]

1) When I was a kid 40-50 years ago i could see the Milky Way (Faintly) even from here. I've lived here all my life except for a stint at boarding school in Dorset. The skies there were brilliant. Even 30 years ago I could still see the Milky Way from here.

2) Local LP I get around by making light screens or growing dense shrubs to block out lights.

3) Visual astronomy has become much less rewarding, therefore I've gone over to imaging and using either a UHC or CLS filter.

4 see 1)

[astro man]

Hi guys your replies have been great... It would be good if I can get a couple more response.

[Wyvern]

OK, here's my take on your questions-

1. Has Light pollution got worse over the last 30 - 50 years. If so what effect has this had on  your Astronomy?

 

Yes, has got worse, but I think that the message on light pollution or light "wastage" is getting through and we're starting to see - excuse a possible pun there - improvements in lighting design and installation.

 

2. How have you or haven't you  tackled the problem of light Pollution ?

 

By actively controlling my own household lighting - as Tesco say, every little helps. - and by asking any nearby properties, not that many here to be fair - to do what they can. Once I point out the potential cost savings that can be made from pointing your lights downwards and not illuminating the skies, all seem eager and willing to assist. Chucking in a "free viewing evening" also helps sweeten them, once they too, get a good look through the scopes.

 

3.  What effect does light pollution have on your telescope ?  ( How have you got around this EG filter kits)

 

By moving here to Wales, possibly an extreme measure you may feel? - the only slight LP we have is from Aberystwyth, some 7 miles distant and shielded mostly by a suitably place hillside. True answer would be no real effect on scope useage.

 

4. When you were a child could you look up every night and see the stars from where you lived ? ( If answer is no when was the first time you saw  a proper night sky.

 

As an 11 yr old back in Dorset, yes I remember being able to see stars fairly easily, but was then on the "edge" of town which over the years, just exploded in growth and we were engulfed by housing estates and shopping complex's.

 

Trust of use to you, 

 

Regards,

 

Les

[laser_jock99]

4) I remember being able to easily see the Milky Way from my parents house in the mid 1980's. I even remember sketching the Great Rift in Cygnus. Nowadays it can still be glimpsed but only when directly overhead on the very clearest of nights.

[Mick UK]

I wonder how many peoples better views of the night sky from 30-50 years ago were down to owning a pair of bright young eyes as opposed to old, well worn, and decaying bespectacled peepers?  

[Scooot]

I wonder how many peoples better views of the night sky from 30-50 years ago were down to owning a pair of bright young eyes as opposed to old, well worn, and decaying bespectacled peepers?  

Nah it's worse!

[dennis65]

Yes light pollution got worse over the years.back in the 50's my problem was industry when on the rare occasion the haze lifted you could see the milky way but as the industries built up ICI and steel works got bigger when their lights went on the stars went out.The glow from the works could be seen for over 20 miles. Now scince most of the works have closed and the council is putting up low wattage down lights its getting better but can only count eight stars inside the square of orion with the naked eye. The only filter I used back then to look at the moon was apiece of orange cellophane off a lucosade bottle to put over the aperture of my spy-glass that I found on the ammunition dump.

[pete_l]

1. Has Light pollution got worse over the last 30 - 50 years. If so what effect has this had on  your Astronomy?

Yes. LP is a function of the number of people in a given area. More people == more lighting. Even when lighting is made more efficient or properly designed, the more people, the more lights. The relationship still holds, it's just the constants in the equation that vary.

2. How have you or haven't you  tackled the problem of light Pollution ?

Moved from S.E England to Andalucia

3.  What effect does light pollution have on your telescope ?  ( How have you got around this EG filter kits)

Now? none. Except that now I have dark skies, I keep bumping into things. Anyone want to buy a LP filter?

4. When you were a child could you look up every night and see the stars from where you lived ?

No, never. Being a "city boy" I was never aware of the night sky. Though I do recall going outside to watch the "Echo" satellites going over - the evening paper published times and directions. Plus, living in England it was always so cloudy that there was nothing much to look at anyway (this was before I caught the astronomy bug). Just a few of the brightest stars and planets. No constellations of any sort and very, very limited views due to the proximity of other houses.

[Stevp]

1. Has Light pollution got worse over the last 30 - 50 years.  I'm not quite thirty so can't comment on that, but even in the last 5 years I've seen a big increase in the nearby light pollution. Lorry yards illuminate all night, golf course driving range lit up until late through the winter. More security lights  and nearby industrial developments, and some people that feel the need to illuminate trees in their garden for decoration!

2. How have you or haven't you tackled the problem of light Pollution ? All of my security lights are well placed and aimed (in my opinion) and only come on with movement, not all night long like my neighbours  I have chosen to site my telescope in an area of the garden that is shielded by the house from the neighbours lights and have let the hedge row grow up a bit between us.

3. What effect does light pollution have on your telescope ? ( How have you got around this EG filter kits). My telescope is next to useless looking to the west from my house as the lights from Hull turn the whole sky orange. It is frustrating but just make do with what is available to the east and south

4. When you were a child could you look up every night and see the stars from where you lived ? ( If answer is no when was the first time you saw a proper night sky. I have always lived in rural(ish) east yorkshire so i've always had fairly good skies

Hope the contribution helps. Maybe we'll get to see your essay when it's finished with.

[astro man]

Hi guys

 I  am overwhemed by the amount of responses I have received they will help me greatly with my project.

Much appreciated 

Astro man

[Moonshane]

hi there

1. Has Light pollution got worse over the last 30 - 50 years. If so what effect has this had on your Astronomy? - only been seriously into astronomy for 5+ years. anecdotally it seems to be getting worse from comments of others.

2. How have you or haven't you tackled the problem of light Pollution ?  where possible I observe from darker sites. I installed some removable material blinds across my fence to reduce glare from lights, installed leds in the house, removed any lighting from garden, observe as close to house as possible to reduce lights visible. I also use a hood sometimes when looking for faint objects. use a dew/light shield

3. What effect does light pollution have on your telescope ? ( How have you got around this EG filter kits) - none as such - I use a sold tube scope but it does affect sky quality locally.

4. When you were a child could you look up every night and see the stars from where you lived ? ( If answer is no when was the first time you saw a proper night sky.  no. my first memory of great skies was when in the Lakes about 4 years ago - truly spectacular.

[AndyExton]

1. Has Light pollution got worse over the last 30 - 50 years. If so what effect has this had on  your Astronomy?

2. How have you or haven't you  tackled the problem of light Pollution ?

3.  What effect does light pollution have on your telescope ?  ( How have you got around this EG filter kits)

4. When you were a child could you look up every night and see the stars from where you lived ? ( If answer is no when was the first time you saw  a proper night sky.

1.  Only started in astronomy back in 2008 so never really noticed if light pollution increased as I was growing up.

2.  Unfortunately, living in a back-to-back terrace means I have lights everywhere on an evening with security and interior lights being a complete nuisance.

3.  Since starting out in astronomy I have used light pollution filters whilst observing from home (Scarborough).  But luckily, I have access to the Dark Sky Discovery site and observatories in Dalby Forest only 20 minutes away to truely tackle the issue.

4.  Grew up in Doncaster which is considerably more inhabited than my current base of Scarborough and surrounded by other large towns.  Apart from the Moon and a few bright stars (that I now realise included the planets)  I never truely saw a night sky until I moved further north and experienced the views that Dalby can provide.  

[klytus]

Hi guys I have to write an essay for school and for my general topic I have chosen Astronomy (obviously) My essay is all about light pollution and the effects it has on a telescope. To go alongside my essay I would like to get some other Astronomer's opinions on light pollution. If you are interested in sharing your thoughts. Please can you give answers to the following questions.

1. Has Light pollution got worse over the last 30 - 50 years. If so what effect has this had on  your Astronomy?

2. How have you or haven't you  tackled the problem of light Pollution ?

3.  What effect does light pollution have on your telescope ?  ( How have you got around this EG filter kits)

4. When you were a child could you look up every night and see the stars from where you lived ? ( If answer is no when was the first time you saw  a proper night sky.

Thanks guys

Astro man

1. Has Light pollution got worse over the last 30 - 50 years. If so what effect has this had on  your Astronomy? --  Yes,definitely with light pollution in and around Doncaster i've noticed a greater difficulty in viewing the stars.

2. How have you or haven't you  tackled the problem of light Pollution ? --  Tried contacting Doncaster MBC re street lighting and pollution never heard a thing. What with cutbacks etc not exactly a high priority by the look of it unfortunately.

3.  What effect does light pollution have on your telescope ?  ( How have you got around this EG filter kits) --  Intend on trying some filters if and when i get chance.

4. When you were a child could you look up every night and see the stars from where you lived ? ( If answer is no when was the first time you saw  a proper night sky. -- Being ahem! 57 this year as a child of the 60's i can very clearly remember looking up into the night sky and the Milky Way was very visible,prevailent weather patterns allowing of course. I've lived in the same area all my life btw so have noticed viewing changes over the years, Ah for the old days